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Young couple's 2-3 Weeks in FR/BeNeLux/DE - beginning planning for August

Young couple's 2-3 Weeks in FR/BeNeLux/DE - beginning planning for August

Old May 9th, 2011, 09:57 PM
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Young couple's 2-3 Weeks in FR/BeNeLux/DE - beginning planning for August

Hi there!

I'm in the very very very early stages of planning for a European vacation that will take place in the end of August/beginning of September. My girlfriend and I [will be] 25 and 24. It's my first time leaving North America. My girlfriend can speak some basic (broken) French and I can speak some basic (broken) German.

We plan to get Eurail youth Select Passes for the countries in question. My hope is that 3-ish weeks is enough time to do these areas and not be spread too thin. At first, I wanted to include England and Ireland as well, but that seems unfeasible both in days per area and travel logistics.

I am certainly cognizant that it will not be a cheap trip. Some things I've got a handle on what the cost will be, and will try to save money where I can (e.g., renting apartments/rooms on AirBNB or ensuite rooms in hostels when I can instead of staying in expensive hotels.) I'm not really sure what the general "cost of living" in these places will be - food, alcohol, admission to tourist attractions, any non-EUrail transport, etc.

One concern I have with the EUrail/B&B/hostel plan is on such a long vacation... how does luggage work? We're both chronic overpackers, and while neither of us have any desire to lug three suitcases each around, 3 weeks is a long time, and I don't really know how little I can get away with packing. If we were staying in hotels, I'm sure there'd be a laundry service, but am pretty sure that there won't be at B&B/hostels. How many suitcases/bags are acceptable/convenient to bring on a EUrail train?

So what I'll do from here is a very rough (and flexible) list of where we'd like to go in these countries and/or relevant interests and comments. I'd appreciate any commentary, criticism, or thoughts! Feel free to advocate eliminating or adding anything!

FRANCE:
Paris
Versailles
Normandy
In general, I think a wine tour of some sort would be really cool. I'm a bit geographically challenged within France though, so I don't know if that's doable, feasible, or what have you.

BENELUX:
Brussels
Antwerp
Amsterdam
I'm a big fan of Belgian beers, and would like to visit at least a couple breweries (renting a car is okay for this as well) - ideally the Trappist monastery at Westvleteren, but I don't want to spend too much time on a beer tour.

GERMANY:
Munich
Bavarian castles
Berlin - I'm a bit worried about how far away this is from BeNeLux and also from other German destinations.
In general, WWII history would be interesting to see, but it seems that's something that Germany has in a large way gotten rid of.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 02:17 AM
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Ok, this is my best thinking
Luggage, I'd stick to one bag each and either use launderies or throw stuff away and replace locally (not a silly idea particularly if yoiu focus on underwear etc and bring your most worn out clothes)

I like your focus on Benelux but try to stay in the region bordered by say Amsterdam, Belgium, Colmar, Epernay, Wurtzberg. This gives you all your beer needs, wines in Mosel, Alsace, Pfalz, Champagne and Rheingau which more than enought to drink you under the table. It also offers you loads of castles without having to gointo Germany too far.

Generally Germany, Holland will prove cheapest with France
more expensive.

I'd drop Berlin, Munich, Normandy

You need some sort of rail card to take advantage of the dense rail network of the area I suggest.

If you want WW2 visiting (hence Normandy) please note that people have fought over the area I have described for generations and a short visit to a tourist info office will idenitfy the latest "bits of iron" or tombs etc.

August is high season but Sept will drift into medium season. Outisde of France you should be able to get clean simple B&B for 40 to 65 euros for 2. Breakfast for euro 6 to 9, lunch 3 courses for euro 12 if you tak the daily special (M-F) weekends are tougher. Evening meals tend to be more expensive but if you focus on ethnic food and vegitarian you can get a good feed for euro 10 or a proper meal euro25.

Museums in this area will be roughly euro6 per visit on average

Thoughts?
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Old May 10th, 2011, 04:19 AM
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IMO, Berlin is one of the most exciting and interesting cities in Europe. It is definitely worth a visit. I prefer it to Munich though enjoy that city as well.

There are cheap flights within Europe that might be worth a look based on your itinerary. Air Berlin is one option for Germany.

Priceline in my experience is an excellent option for the larger cities and I have used it often over the years. You can often get a really nice hotel for the price of a B&B. Do tour research at betterbidding.com and biddingfortravel.com.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 05:09 AM
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Hi X,

>...We plan to get Eurail youth Select Passes....<

Before you do that, I suggest you look up the prices for each of your trips at
www.voyages-sncf.com, www.b-rail.be/main/E/,
www.ns.nl/reisplanner-v2/index.shtml?language=en and www.bahn.de

The national rail companies often have discounted rates that make point-to-point tickets much cheaper than Rail Passes.

>...I don't really know how little I can get away with packing....<

My wife and I never take more than 1 large and two carryon suitcases for 3 weeks, and we are much older than you two.

There are laundromats where you can do your laundry, especially if you are doing the hostel thing. You can wash your underclothes in the sink and hang them to dry.

>Paris 6-7 nights
Versailles daytrip from Paris
Normandy 2 nights RT from Paris.

>Brussels 2 - 3 nights
Antwerp 2 nights
Amsterdam 3-5 nights

>Munich 3 nights
Bavarian castles All of them? You will need a car
Visit Herrenchiemsee on the way to Salzburg: 2 nights in Salzburg. Get the Salzburg card. Stay at http://www.ammoos.at/main.php?language=en&m=home%29

Berlin - 4-6 nights

- I'm a bit worried about how far away this is from BeNeLux and also from other German destinations.

Fly into Paris and out of Berlin, or VV.

So, now your only problem is how to turn a 4 week trip into a 3 week visit.

Enjoy.

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Old May 10th, 2011, 05:42 AM
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"In general, WWII history would be interesting to see, but it seems that's something that Germany has in a large way gotten rid of."

For WW II: The Arnhem War Museum and the Arnhem Airborne Museum could be worth your time as you move between A'dam and Germany.

In Germany, the Rhine/Mosel region is very close to your the Benelux and France. In Remagen, the "Bridge at Remagen" was destroyed but there's a very good WW II museum there now. Remagen is just south of Cologne on the Rhine River: www.bruecke-remagen.de South of Remagen near Koblenz you'll find some really ancient (800-1,000 years old!) knights' castles the area, including these three which have interior tours:

Burg Eltz: www.burg-eltz.de
Marksburg: www.marksburg.de
Reichsburg: www.reichsburg-cochem.de (see a free-flight falconry show there too: www.falknerei-reichsburg-cochem.de/fotobuch.htm )

In Belgium, you may want to skip Brussels and have a look in the Ardennes mountains instead - the towns of La Roche en Ardennes, Stavelot, Malmedy, La Gleize, and Bastogne, among others, have some sights (tanks, the like) and Museums. There's also a moving American cemetery - Henri Chapelle, not far from the German border near Aachen in the Belgian town of Eupen.

I would agree with limiting your travel to the western part of Germany. Berlin and Munich are worthwhile, but you already have a lot on your plate, and the castles on the Rhine are probably more interesting than the ones south of Munich which were built only a bit more than a century ago. Stick with the Rhine and Mosel villages, Cologne, and the old Roman city of Trier. If you're in Trier on a Sunday afternoon, an outing to an old German bunker in nearby Irrel is possible:

http://www.westwallmuseum-irrel.de/index_en.html

I found it very interesting but displays were mostly in German. I got there by bus from Trier, but a car might be handy here.

Monschau, Germany, is a fetching village not far from Aachen, a good base for visiting the cemetery mentioned above:

http://www.monschau.de/tourist-infor...dergalerie.php

I'm a big fan of train travel in Europe, but if you're headed to Normandy, Arnhem, and the Ardennes, a car will be easier, probably essential.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 06:11 AM
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Luggage: Each take 1 larger (not large!) bag and a daybag/purse. Most hostels will have laundry and B&B owners can point you to the nearest laundry facility. Plan on doing laundry every 5-6 days. If either of you can't lift your larger bag above your head into a compartment, make it smaller.

With 3 weeks I would do Paris 5 days, Normandy 2 days, Benelux one week or so, and end in Berlin for 4-5 days. For younger travelers Berlin is pretty amazing, great history and great museums. We loved all the WWII and Cold War history there. This would fly into Paris and out of Berlin.

For a cost example, in 2009 my husband and I went for a month to Italy/Germany/Amsterdam and spent about $7500 without airfare. We stay in private rooms in B&B's or hostels and will never spend more than 90 euro a night. We do enjoy alchol and food though. We found all of Germany to be cheap compared to Italy/Amsterdam.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 06:58 AM
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I assume your interest in Belgian beer means you are also Beeradvocate xerenthar. If you see the Rhine/Mosel area, a wine region of course, there are a few breweries here and there too. One that's on my bucket list is Kloster Machern, a monastery in Bernkastel-Kues, one of the most attractive villages on the Mosel and in Germany. The monks have several different brews; use your broken German or a web translator?:

http://www.klostermachern.de/6_2_1_Spezialit%E4ten.htm
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Old May 10th, 2011, 07:36 AM
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bit burger is just north of the Mosel will some interesting small brands. But Belgium is the place
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Old May 10th, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Hi everyone! Thanks for the initial thoughts. There are certainly a lot of things to think about. I'm still torn about Munich and Berlin. They're both supposed to be amazing cities with a lot to see... the nightlife in Berlin is legendary...visiting Dachau would be amazing too. But staying in western Germany means more time not in transit. Maybe dropping Normandy... argh! I'm so indecisive that I can't decide what kind of sandwich I want, let alone how to plan my first European vacation.

Russ, I'm indeed the same person on BA!

Lindy, I like that figure, although I have a suspicion that replacing Italy with France will kick it way up.

I'll definitely look into Priceline for the hotels, I've used BetterBidding before.

All your suggestions are appreciated and are thought of. I've got one last paper to finish up before I leave the world of academia forever, and after that's done (probably tomorrow) I need to get this stuff going... from what I understand, the no reservation thing doesn't really fly in August.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 01:36 PM
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For packing, we usually pack about 1 week's worth of clothing, then do laundry during the trip - either laundromat or take it to a full-service place. When I've packed more than that, the hassle of dealing with luggage outweighs the convinience of a larger wardrobe. Just make sure you bring stuff that you really like to wear.

I have not been to Berlin (yet), but I have been to Munich - returning in August as a matter of fact Our trip has a beer theme - Bamburg, Munich, and Prague are the main stops. Munich is a fun city, and of course for a beerlover, it is a must because of the beer gardens. The lovely, magical places that they are.

When you are in Belgium - go to Bruges if you can for the Halve Maan brewery. It is the last brewery in the old town, in a town that was legendary for its breweries. The tour of the brewery is neat. They brew the Bruges Zot beer.

Also, the Ardennes mountains are home to the Rochfort beer, which is really good.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 06:21 PM
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I actually meant to put Bruges on there. It seems that if I'm going to EURail pass, it's cheaper to go Paris-Lille-Bruges-Brussels than take the Thalys.

And yes... so many beers to choose from within belgium... Orval, Rochefort, Chimay, Westvleteren, Delerium, Cantillion, etc.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 06:42 PM
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As far as luggge is concerned you can take whatever y ou want on a train. But - then you have to deal with it - haul it up onto the train (often up 2 or 3 steep steps), put smaller pieces on the overhead rack and find someplace (under seat, under your feet or end of the car) for larger pieces. IMHO more than 1 midsize bag and small carry-on per person is NOT manageable unless you are a weightlifter - and probably get first class seats to have more room for the bags.

If you are doing the hostel thing they should have access to washers/dryers so you can easily wash your clothes.

Separately I think you are trying to cover way too much territory - not only will you not see much - but the more you move around the more expensive it is.

As for costs - look at the web sites of some of the major ones you wan to see and you can easily figure out the price (the Eiffel tower is 13 euros - about $20 - per person).

Local transit and meals etc will cost what you wold expect to pay - or a little more - in a major city in the US - think New York -not small town prices.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 12:38 AM
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If you go to Bruges, and are prepared to swap WWII for WWI, then Quasimodo tours do an excellent day tour of the Belgium battlefields.
Plus if you are in Belgium add Rodenbach Grand Cru to your beer list.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 11:11 AM
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the itinerary (beta version 2):
paris (6-7 days) (day trips to versailles, epernay/reims)
brugges (3 days) (via lille train)
brussels (2-3 days)
amsterdam (2 days)
munich (3 days) (ideally via dusseldorf ICE...seems this will almost take a day)

berlin (3 days)

thoughts? i think i am going to call that BETS (budget europe travel services) place who offers free advice on whether to buy eurail or point-to-point. is there a better order of things so as not to take too much time travelling between like amsterdam and germany? maybe amsterdam-brussels-bruges-paris-munich-berlin?
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Old May 12th, 2011, 11:24 AM
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I know it's heresy on this forum but I much prefer Berlin to Paris so I would take a day or two from Paris and add to Berlin.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 01:44 PM
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I think your itinerary looks great. The only thing I would change is I would make it 2 days in Brussels and 3 in Amsterdam.

If you could somehow fit in Prague that would be awesome, but of course you can't do it all in one trip.

H
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Old May 12th, 2011, 02:27 PM
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Heehee kfusto - yeah, total heresy

I think that 3 days in Bruges is too many unless you are planning to do day trips from there. If no day trips are planned, I would cut a day. It is a smallish place.

On the otherhand, I would add more time to Amsterdam if possible. There is quite a bit to see there and it is just a fun city. Other than Heinekin (which I don't care for), it doesn't seem to have much beer culture going on, but we enjoyed it immensly inspite of that - you can drink plenty of Belgian beers, of course.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 04:23 PM
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I would also take a day from Brussels and add it to Amsterdam.

There is also a night train from Amsterdam to Berlin and also Berlin to Munich. If you want to spend less time during the day on one of those trips you could easily take a night train. We took both when we were there and got good sleep on both of them, not too many curves or anything to jolt you around.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 03:51 AM
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To all the great tips you have gotten thus far I will add my 2 cents worth.

Packing - Take one carry on bag along with a backpack or purse. This eliminates the airline losing your luggage and also makes moving about so much easier. Many metro stations require walking up and or down a flight or two of stairs. Drop off laundry places are a time saver and usually not expensive.

Language - don't worry about not speaking the language, most people in europe speak english. They do appreciate you trying though.

Trains - Do compare flight and train ticket prices for your long legs. We found that it saved both time and money to fly. They have some increddibly low fares in the summer in europe.

Itinerary - I would even out Paris and Berlin, 5 days each. You will LOVE Berlin. You will love Paris too, but I would not be surprised if Berlin is the highlight of your trip. 60 museums, tons of WWII and Cold War history. Consider adding the Rhien and Mosel area to get your castle fix. (Add days or steal from other places.) Easy to do by train, tons of castles and some (pointed out above) tourable. You could train over to this area from Amsterdam easily.

Food - There are lots of cheap options for food in europe if you can get past thinking you have to sit down in a resturant for every meal. The crepe shops in Paris, the great sandwiches in bakeriers all over including the train stations, all the small ethnic stands, and even using the markets to pull together your own picnic. Fill up at the included breakfast, grab a soft pretzel and beer midday and then search out a local small neighborhood resturant for dinner.

This may be your first time to europe but it will not be your last. Don't worry about trying to see everything, just enjoy the places you choose. Have a great trip!
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Old May 13th, 2011, 11:57 AM
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"This may be your first time to europe but it will not be your last. Don't worry about trying to see everything, just enjoy the places you choose"

Absolutely barblab. I agree 100%. I was 30 the first time I went to Europe - I am 36 now and planning my 4th trip there this summer
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