Yet Another AirBnB Question
 

I thought I heard on the radio (here in the US) that the Parisian official had come to some sort of agreement with AirBnB in the last few days.

We don't always get the most accurate news here.

Can any of you Fodorites on the ground shed any light on this? Planning to go to Paris in May.

Thanks.
ssander

What are you referring to?

I just caught the tail end of a radio piece here in the US...sounded like AirBnB and Paris authorities had come to some kind of agreement that would allow short-term rentals.

I'm probably mistaken, but I thought it might be possible.

ssander

There has been some PR by a group of owners of multiple sublet apts who are affected who claim that they will be working on this problem. I haven;t seen anything from the government headed in the same direction.

This is a ploy that the Air BnB uses frequently - saying they are "in negotiations" with the local government but, at least in NYC, it meant they were being called to account by the city government, which has named a specific committee now to figure out the most effective way to force them and the most recalcitrant landlords out of business.

I hadn't heard that . . . its super early AM in Paris right now so maybe when our Parisian continent gets up in a few hours they will know if there have been any new developments . . .

Nothing new on the horizon. No new changes, and it's probable that nothing will change for a long, long time.

There will be years of discussion about how to best manage the problem of short-term rentals in Paris - it's more difficult here, because every word must be examined, debated, then re-checked, before it makes it into the lawbooks. Things move much more slowly here than we would like - makes an escargot look like a Ferrari...

AirBnB is a master at taking advantage of free advertising, managing to get its name into any discussion about - well, anything having to do with vacation rentals, especially in Paris, which seems to be their No. 1 client base. There are many individuals and rental agencies which belong to a couple of lobbying groups, such as FNAIM, Paris Tourist Commission and others, which try to keep their members optimistic, but that's all there is to it. If you owned property in Paris, and depended on rentals to keep it, you would be hanging on their every word.

If you're interested, you should look through some recent posts about AirBnB and apartment rentals in general on Fodor's. I would put more faith in interpretations from locals than from people who own rentals or just like to stay in them. The residents are used to de-coding French legalese, whereas others are prone to use Americanized sound bites from US based blogs or news sources, which are not always accurate.

Briefly recently the French rail co. SNCF had a partnership with Airb&b, but there was a lot of outrage about it, and I believe it has been killed.

There were some posts on TA about this. Someone posted an article about a study I believe where some french organiztion looked at the issue and said there was a need to have short term rentals. I believe recommondations were to come out in the spring. I looked on TA just now and it seems the post has been deleted. Probably because it integrated into the usual putdowns of posters & arguments about the topic. But in the meantime, anyone know what this was about?

Whatever Parisians know would be based on media reports which are available anywhere nowadays online, TV or print.

SNCF did kill their AirBNB partnership due to opposition (led by the head of the Bristol hotel), and made some PR duplicitous statement about how this was just hurting poor families and Parisian who needed a little extra money and retned their home when they were on vacation. Which is a big fat lie, of course, since many did it permanently all year. And in fact, occasional short-term rentals are legal, so AirBnB is either too stupid to know that are just doesn't care as they want to promote permanenty investment in buildings to rent to vacationers through them. This is AirBnB's statement <<It’s sad to see the big hotel lobbyists and their allies oppose a partnership which benefits hard-working families who want to make a little extra money to help pay their bills and save money when they travel by train.>>

As the opposition noted, SNCF depends on govt subsidies, so has no business cooperating with AirBnB. This was reported in Le Figaro on Tuesday, Le Parisien, and other outlets, I imagine.

I have read or heard nothing in French news about AirBnb being in some supposed agreement about anything. They did agree to have their users collect hotel tax but that was last summer. I don't think AirBnb is going to get some personal corporate exemption from the laws versus any other such company, the law regulates Parisians. They aren't going to say oh, it's okay if you are renting through AirBnB to buy up an apt building and rent them out all year.

"Whatever Parisians know would be based on media reports which are available anywhere nowadays online, TV or print." Exactly, unless they are directly invoved with whatever is internally being discussed.

As of January 1st, Airbnb must report all revenue collected to the French government for taxation purposes. This will probably cause major changes in which owners will continue to want to rent their apartments, because they did not pay income tax on this revenue before.

The reason that local residents know more about the issues is because a great many of us are directly involved in community organizations which hold monthly meetings with the Mayor, her representatives, notaires, special task forces and the police, who are devoted to trying to solve issues regarding residents, tourists and quality of life issues. We are the "boots on the ground", we are elected to represent our buildings and communities. Most of us are working hard to find some sort of solution which will allow short term rentals, which are indeed necessary, though not to the present degree at which they exist.

There has always been an agreement that there is a need for short-term rentals, though it is extremely difficult to find solutions to the many problems associated with landlord-tenant responsibilities and rights and financial responsibilities. There are no simple solutions, and no changes will be made in the near future. The vacation rental business simply grew faster than the city realized - because revenue and taxes were not reported. There was no official census taken of the number of units until two years ago, and the results were astounding. Since the Mayor's investigation last year, it has proven difficult to locate the foreign investors who own a large number of vacation rentals.

The TA post was written by an expat property owner, who neglects to mention her financial interest in this matter, and because it contained many suppositions and inaccuracies, based on reports by the lobbying groups I mentioned previously. it was removed. Don't blame us residents - we've all been banned from TA, so we're not responsible.

Hi all...

I decided to go back to our "regular" hotel.

I do, to a large extent, sympathize with those who cite the shortage of affordable housing. It is a problem in the US as well.

ssander

Good going ssander.

Rant that my comment was deleted. Must have been because I mentioned a certain name, a name that should have been taken down and was taken down.

I can't remember another time that that has happened. Oh well, no problem.

Thanks for the explanation fuzzbucket.

But fuzzbucket. What Kerouac suggested sounds positive.

We all know Airbnb is collecting the city tax and now have to report to the government the revenue collected for taxation purposes starting January 1st.

That sounds like a huge positive going in the right direction for all concerned.

"Don't blame us residents - we've all been banned from TA, so we're not responsible."

Interesting. I don't use the TA forums, but wonder why. (And thanks for the informative post.)

Looking at accommodations for a family of 5 in June. Because we have 3 teenage children, we were looking at AirBNB's. Haven't booked anything yet, but wonder if there will be a problem if we do? I admit I haven't read much about this issue, but now am a bit concerned. Maybe we should go to 2 hotel rooms?

Yes, agree with thursdayd - interesting locals have been banned.

I find facts helpful. I don't find insinuations and innuendos at other posters helpful and that seems to happen on this topic between locals and tourists on the boards far to often.

iris - this is a positive step in the right direction for AirBnB, which has finally agreed to start following a minor tax regulation, rather than face heavy fines for continued tax-evasion, as it has in other cities.

However, this will backfire for AirBnB's clients, most of whom have not been reporting any income at all. (By the way, this also goes for any individual, manager or agency who agrees to accept cash payments, whether partial or in full).

In Paris, anyone who generates any kind of income is required to declare it. There is a certain limit below which taxes are not due, but everyone must declare all income, no matter what the source. Since AirBnB will now have to report a "paper trail" to the tax authorities, many clients will either stop using AirBnB or will have to gamble that the government will somehow not discover that they are renting illegally.
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mominthepark - most AirBnB apts in Paris are not large, most won't have 5 real beds, and most will only have one full bath. If you're depending on using a washer/dryer, remember that they are not what you're used to, and you'd do better to use an inexpensive, efficient coin laundry nearby. If you arrive earlier than the check in time, you will have to haul your family and all your stuff around town until you can access the apartment. This won't be fun in June, when you'll be hot and tired.

Here are some alternatives -
If you are sure that you will be making almost all of your meals at home (and have done the math to prove that you will actually save money), look for Adagio or Citadines apart'hotels, which have kitchenettes in the rooms and cater to families. Some also have laundry facilities. You can ask for adjoining rooms, which would give you the benefit of two full bathrooms and more space. If that's beyond your budget, there are some rooms that do sleep 5.

If you don't want to cook and clean, you can find lots of little hotels all over Paris - many are 100EU per double room, sometimes less, especially if you find internet specials. Large chain hotels, like Ibis and Accord, also cater to families. Again, if you can afford it, two rooms would give you much-needed extra plumbing.

I highly recommend searching this forum for "paris wat" and his hotel recommendations. He's a frequent traveller to Paris, and often comes with his family.

Tripadvisor has a long history of moderating their forums to make everything in Travel-Land always appears rosy and fun. Moreover, they are in business with the apartment rental site of FlipKey and take no responsibility for vetting landlords.

But that said, there are some people on Fodor's who just have an axe to grind against AirBnb, whether it is London or New York or some antiquated notion it is dangerous for virgins. They jump into every AirBnb thread because they have their own undisclosed self-interest to defeat the AirBnb business model. They could care less about the future of Paris and the happiness of Parisians.

I also feel people have gone overboard morally condemning travelers who want to rent an apartment in Paris -- and I am saying that as somebody who has gotten raked over the coals on Fodor's warning uninformed travelers against taking the risk of renting against a drumbeat of denial and Paris Perfect boosters.

The real issue here is primarily informing travelers about the risk to their vacation. There is of course a larger issue about caring about the integrity of Paris and people are free to discuss it, but this is getting mixed up with people's hatred of tourists generally or tourists who simply want a special experience of Paris that hotels don't offer. If people want to go to Paris and sleep in trees in the park, I don't feel much obliged to lecture them on their morals and attitudes toward natives. I just feel a responsibility to warn them they are risking unpleasant encounters with the locals that could ruin their trip because they are breaking the law.