Would you look at my 8 day itin for Germany
 

You've all answered many questions so far - than you so much. I'm in my 30s, husband's in his 40s. We're easy going and in good shape. And we'll need exercise throughout the trip to burn off all the beer we plan to taste! Here is what we have come up with so far:

Saturday, 9/23 – Arrive in Frankfurt at 10:35, drive to St. Goar. Stay 2 nights at Hotel Am Markt. Tour Rhenfels on Saturday. On Sunday rent bikes, cruise Rhine and bike back. ? Wine related activities ? Any advice is welcome, particulary specific tips on the cruise part - schedule is very confusing but I'm sure we can also get help at the hotel.

Monday, 9/25 – early departure. Drive Romantic Road to Ismaning. Stop in Rothenburg or Dinkelsbuhl or both? Open to suggestions. Evening - check into Hotel Frey for 2 nights (15 min train ride to Munich). We plan to spend Monday night and all day Tuesday in Munich. We will also have most of Wednesday before driving to Schwangau.

Wednesday, 9/27 – arrive in Schwangau in the evening. Stay in Hotel Ruebezahl for 3 nights. Wednesday night – probably just eat and sleep. Tour the castles one day. Plan some other sights for Friday. ? What are your favorite spots? Any good bike rides or hikes?

Saturday, 9/30 – leave early and drive to Salzburg. Spend day in Salzburg. ? Hotel recommendations ?

Sunday, 10/1 – leave Salzburg at the crack of dawn for 10:30am flight out of Munich.

I know Salzburg is rushed, but I think it would be great to be able to go. I love Mozart. I thought we could do a little sightseeing and a short concert. Maybe the Mozart dinner concert? I've never even seen The Sound of Music so I don't nned that tour!

I would very much like to go to the Andach’s monastery. Does anyone know of the best way to get there? I think maybe on the way to Schwangau from Ismaning. Or can it be done easily from our hotel in Schwangau?

I'm not exactly sure what we'll do in Munich. Definites are Oktoberfest beer tent, The Glockenspiel, Hofbrauhaus (no matter how touristy). I would like to see Dachau. I actually can't imagine NOT seeing it but not sure yet how to fit it in respectfully. We're not into art and don't have enough days to spend a lot of time in Museums. I did read about some crown jewels that I think I'd like to see. Englischer Garten sounds nice.

Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experiences.

Susan

Overall, you itinerary looks good. Let me just mention a few suggestions for minor changes:

Sunday: I probably would take the train back to St. Goar from wherever you get off the boat. Limiting yourself to a trip back by bike will shorten the stretch of the Rhein you can visit. Also, I don't recall how good the "Fahrradweg" along the Rhein is. For trains limit yourself to "Regio" trains, they stop at most towns along the river stretch.

Stopping in Ismaning is a good idea. To have a bit more time in Rothenburg and possibly also see Dinklebuehl (which I like very much) you may want to limit yourself to taking the A-3 autobahn to exit 71, then take the B-13 to Ochsenfurt (worth a short visit) and to the A-7 autobahn. Take it to the Rothenburg exit 100. Then, after visiting R., if you have the time, take the A-7 south to exit 112, and get off for Dinkelsbuehl. From there follow these routes; they are not all numbered, but good roads and in part quite scenic: Dinkelsbuehl-Wassertruedingen- Geilsheim - Ostheim - Treuchlingen- Eichstaett (this is a particular pretty route, through the Altmuehl Valley) - Ingolstadt, where you pick up the A-9 south. Get off at exit 71 for Ismaning.

If you don't have the time for Dinkelsbuehl, then take the A-7 south from Rothenburg, to the A-6. Head east to exit 53, and follow the signs to Windsbach- Abenberg -Roth- Allersberg and get on the A-9 south there. Along the way, the fields with the telephone poles are where they grow hops. Don't volunteer to harvest the hop. It's a miserable job!

Ismaning: I think you should add a day to spend more time in Munich, and cut 1 day in Schwangau. There is too much to see in M.

On the way to Schwangau, take the A-96 (use the A-99 to get around Munich) and get off at exit 30 (Inning) and take the detour to Andechs. It's worth it. While at the Kloster Andex, stop at the big Kolster Retaurant and get some of tha Andechs beer and "Leberkaese" and potato salad. But try the L. first, it is an acquired taste, but an Andechs specialty.

Then return to the A-96 to Landsberg, and take teh B-17 to Fuessen/Schwangau. Along the way, in Steingaden, take the 25km detour to the Wieskirche. It's a beautiuful example of Bavarian baroque, in an abbey that stands in the middle of maedows, with the mountains in the background.

For a scenic routing to Salzburg, check my posting on the Austrian board "Reutte to Salzburg".

While in Salzburg, consider the short trip to Freilassing (in Germany)to drop off your car and return by train to S. (Dropping off he car in Austria is very expensive!)

While driving on Sunday at the crack of dawn to the airport will probably present no problem, the A-8 from Salzburg to Munich and the A-99/A9 to the airport can be busy. For your ppeace of mind, you may want to take the train to the MUC airport. (Check www.bahn.de for schedules)

I would recommend you visit Dachau near Munich. It was very well presented and really made you think and reflect. There were some personal stories intertwined with the history overall. There are some confronting parts of the architecture but definately worth experiencing.

Schloss Linderhof is another of Ludwig's castles that is an easy drive from the Schwangau area.

You might enjoy some of the options just opposite St. Goar on the other side of the river.

Ferry across and head north to Braubach for a tour of Marksburg Castle - the only intact castle on the Rhine that you can tour, and a much better window on medieval life. Rheinfels is worthwhile, but there's really no comparison.

Also, the falconry show at Burg Maus Castle - just across from St. Goar and north maybe 2 miles - might be really interesting for you.

If you ferry across and head south to the tower (Stadtturm) near the end of town you'll find a little wine tasting cellar that's very gemuetlich.

Also, there's a terrific hike that begins with a cliffward climb from St. Goar's train station and heads to Oberwesel along the cliffs - wonderful scenic views from there as you move through vineyard, forest and pasture. Figure 2.5-3 hours one way.

Have you checked the k-d rhein cruise schedule at

www.k-d.com/englisch/index.html
for clear departure and arrival times for boat 'cruises'?
If you have any opportunity, I'd try to get a few stops down from St. Goar to the wine-growing viilage of Bacharach (just a few minutes by train). They have many more Winzerstube and restaurant choices...I have stayed in vacation apts in both St. Goar AND Bacharach in the past...you will like this stretch-I envy you!

Wow, these responses are all so helpful.

Lorikeet – thanks for the reinforcement about seeing Dachau, I am definitely going. There were a lot of elderly Jewish people in the neighborhood I grew up in, and seeing those tattoos as a child made it’s own mark on me.

RTF – We do plan on seeing that castle, too. We’re following the tour schedule from the Rick Steves book for that.

Russ – that all sounds good. Did you see the falconry show? I thought it sounded good, but wasn’t sure. On a map we have it looks like there might be a bridge that crosses the Rhine near St. Goar. Any chance, if not there is a ferry right there that we’ll take. And I will find that cellar. I love Reisling. The hike sounds beautiful. Maybe we can do part and double back. I wish we had 2 weeks.

Treplow – I cannot thank you enough for all of that info. The reason we are not staying the 3rd night in Munich is because we want to have a very early start in the Fussen area on Thursday. If we stay in Munich I know we will end up out very late – no willpower! We will spend all of Wednesday in that area, though. Actually what I think might work is this – if we’re up pretty early we could spend a few hours in the city seeing a few more sights and shopping. Then go back, get the car and tour Dachau. This would give us the drive toward Schwangau to let the shock die down. We could stop at Andach on the way. I would like to see a place of peace and beauty after that, I think. Do they sell beer to take away? I’d like that. Then get to our hotel for dinner. That’s also our nicest hotel and we love the surroundings. I want to wake up there as often as possible.

I can’t give up our biking on the Rhine. You know when you get an image in your mind and just know it will be “one of those moments”? I love the hops comment! If I can get a picture of my husband standing in a field of hops it would be more perfect than you can imagine!!! If I can get one of both of us it will be our Christams card. From our hops to yours…

Your directions are so helpful. I think we will have to save some time on the drive to Ismaning in order to be able to stop a while. Any idea approximately how long the drive takes without stopping? Hint: we drive less than 100mph! I will get your Salzburg directions, I think I may have already bookmarked them. Do you have any suggestions for a hotel in Salzburg? It does not have to be fancy – clean with parking, a private bath and good plumbing is fine for us. Right now our most expensive place is 140 euros a night and I kind of need to keep it that way.

Again, thank you so much everyone. I’m getting excited.

I don't know what it is about that ferry schedule, I cannot figure it out. Hopefully we can work it out well at the hotel. I think we make take boat to Bacharach and bike back. But I would like to go to Bacharach later to look around. I've read great reviews of the restaurant in our hotel and they clincher was they have Wild Boar on the menu. I think that will be a good first night and for the second we'll branch out.

For the Munich part of your initerary - you might want to spend an afternoon taking a bike tour with Mike's Bikes. We did that on our trip and had a terrific time. It was a great way to see some of the highlights of the city. Our tour was from 11:30 to about 4:30, with a long stop for lunch in a beer garden in the English Garden.

To answer your questions:You can buy beer in Kloster Andechs (not spelling of the place).

Going the direct way from Rothenburg to Ismaning is 267km , all 40km on the autobahn. This shouldn't should take you less than 3 hours, unless your husband falls in love with a female hop picker. That's why I directed you around Nuernberg, to save you time.

The Dinkelsbuehl - Altmuehltal route is 221 km. This should take you about 4-4 1/2 hours of leisurly driving.

If you want to do some biking around Schwangau, check out the trails around the Bannwaldsee (See=lake) or Forggensee. Also, as kids we rode the bike from Fuessen to the Wieskirche. Check that out, too. It's about 40km round trip.

I can't help you with a Salzburg hotel. The few times I stayed in Salzburg on business I stayed at the Goldener Hirsch, which is quite expensive, especially this, the Mozart year.

NB: Hop picking: During WWII we were sent as high school students to pick the hop during what would normally have been our summer vacation. We each sat on a one-legged stool and the owner of the "Hopfengarten" yanked down one of the vines, from which we then plugged the hop by hand. We kids managed to drive the farmer haggard by making sure that when he was at one end of the field, someone at the other end yelled "Hopfen", and he had to run along the full length of the field with his long pole to yank down the vine, just as another kid at the other end yelled "Hopfen" again, and there he went. All this in the heat of August! That was "constructive" sabotage. You will appreciate the action when you see the size of the fields. Oh, yes: And the day before we pluigged the Hopfen, the field was sprayed with some sort of acid, which played havock with our gloves and hands.

>Drive Romantic Road to Ismaning.
Is there another Ismaning or are you talking about the Ismaning north of Munich (BT, Microsoft...)? This place is number 2 on my list of the most boring places on planet earth. Been there, had to work there for a while. The place stinks, it's dead and extremely boring!

If possible try to cancel your hotel there. I wouldn't send my worst enemy to stay in this town...

logos - how do you really feel about Ismaning? haha. This whole trip was sort of a last minute decision so a hotel in Munich during Oktoberfest wasn't possible. We are staying there purely for the convenience. It's before Munich so we don't have to drive through or around until we are leaving Munich. It's a fast train ride and also convenient for us to drive to Dauchau. We really will just be sleeping there (if that!) and the hotel does seem nice enough. Given that would you still be dead against it? A boring town is fine for me if I'm just sleeping there, but diry or "shady" would not be.

treplow - you do have a wonderful way of writing and I love your hops story. When we take a good look at the map I think we will be taking your suggestions. The other planning has been hard and we need a break before the next stage! I'm glad we can buy some things at Andech. It will be great to stretch out in our room there with a cold one and recover from Munich.

Dohlice, when I was working there my colleages and me were joking "When do you go back to civilization today" meaning "When does you working day end today". There is actually one nice restaurant, but other than that it's frustratingly dead. Masses of People come in the morning to work at at the big companies and TV stations that have there headquaters there and are trying to leave from there after work asap. It's a "tidy" town, just there's absolutely nothing to do or see there. Ok, there's a rather big S-Bahn train station and you can walk down the valley of the Isar river. Grocery store and Kebap yes... Can't tell you how much I hated this place.

I checked again, the beergarden/Hotel "Zur Mühle" downtown was the place we went from time to time. The beergarden is nice.

Dohlice comments:

"Did you see the falconry show? I thought it sounded good, but wasn’t sure. On a map we have it looks like there might be a bridge that crosses the Rhine near St. Goar. Any chance, if not there is a ferry right there that we’ll take. And I will find that cellar. I love Reisling. The hike sounds beautiful. Maybe we can do part and double back. I wish we had 2 weeks."

I haven't seen the Burg Maus show myself but have seen two others at different castles in Germany, and both were great. I once hiked the territory east of the Burg Maus compound and wandered down a trail that dropped down just behind the castle where I could see all the birds in their pen below - some were HUGE. There is no bridge at St. Goar - use the ferry. If you want a short version of the hike I mentioned, depart up the steps on the right of the station entrance, then keep to the cliffside as much as possible until you reach the Loreleyblick overlook, where you can spy the Loreley cliffs on the opposite side of the river. Then return. Or go all the way to Oberwesel and take the train home from there (about 5 minutes' ride.)

Dohlice: Since Ismaning is strictly your place to spend the nights, with S-Bahn trips to Munich, I still think it's a good choice. I agree, if I had to spend days there or work there at the atomic researc lab, it probably would drive me mad too.

J_Correa – I read about the bike tour somewhere and it does sound good. I’m not sure we have time, I’ll have to look at what else we will see on the tour. Do you remember if there was a lot of treacherous riding in traffic? I’m a big baby about riding in the streets. I wish we had another day for Munich, then the bike tour would be a definite.

Russ – the hike and the falconry show both sound like they could be good for our first day. I don’t want to sleep too early, but I don’t want to drive after that long flight and no sleep. I think we can fit something in after touring the castle ruins and before our scrumptious dinner at the hotel.

Logos – I’m sorry you got stuck there. How awful to be in a boring town in such an exciting place. We don’t have time for even one more pretty thing so it should suit us well. I’m glad S-Bahn station is good since that is the only reason we will be there!

Treplow – we found a place in Salzburg. I was worried because it is a Saturday night and I read another poster that said they had a lot of trouble finding accommodations. We’re thinking of doing the Mozart dinner concert so we can save some time. It looks very nice, too.

>boring town
The money was okay...