Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Would a travel planning agency make sense? And should I participate?

Would a travel planning agency make sense? And should I participate?

Old Feb 18th, 2011, 03:21 AM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re-reading your post later (for all your talents as a writer, paragraphs would help!) it did occur to me to add that if the focus is on the traveler who wants special guidance and access, I think you could and should charge more than 10 euros a pop.

When you suggested to me (for freee!) that I might be interested in visiting Torviscosa, had you been able to get me into the closed museum and a viewing of the film Antonioni made for Mussolini that is there, I certainly would have paid a fair amount for that. After all, people travel very far distances and even they know that a lot of what they spend their money on is trivia. Something that you really can't get anyplace else, that will never leave Torviscosa or Venice, is worth it to the traveler (if not the tourist). Maybe I'm just re-stating Peter's point.

To elaborate a bit on my suggestion of a travel itineraries for the mobility impaired, I think a lot of such people already accept that many famous sights in Italy are inaccessible. But they would still like to experience Italy and what they might find extremely valuable are pointers to accessible sights that are fantastic treasures, but just not so famous. You know Italy is actually jammed with such gems. It is possible to have a delightful, culturally rich multi-day stay in Umbria, for instance, even if Spello isn't realistic for people with walking difficulties. There are ways to move around Venice that minimize stair climbing and maximize elevator use if you just know where to go. Plus travelers with mobility impairments often really treasure what they can access. They are much more open to seeing the un-famous but truly Venetian treasure, and don't regret not getting marched through the Doge's palace.

Also, your friend should probably read that book written by a private Tuscan tour guide called something like "Too Much Tuscan Sun". It's written by a native Tuscan and always sounded rather hilarious.

But I still think your generosity would be better rewarded if you wrote a book (with paragraphs, please).
zeppole is offline  
Old Feb 18th, 2011, 05:33 PM
  #22  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi, zeppole! "Too Much Tuscan Sun" is already ordered.
As far as the mobility impaired, that's certainly a good idea, but it would need a large amount of research. Not being impaired myself, I have really no idea - even at sights that I know very well - whether there are perhaps two steps at the entrance without a handrail. I don't notice the steps, and I don't look for the handrail when I go there. So it would be literally necessary to go back to each and every sight and check. (Having had a close relative who was suffering from polio, I know just how crucial one or two steps and their height can be.) But the idea is excellent, no doubt.
A "we try to open closed doors" agency (only) would be an interesting idea, too. I'll discuss all that with my pen friend. And also the notion how devastating it must be to deal with hysterical travelers if they pay you (and you can't get rid of them by just not opening their thread any further). Thank you, Bokhara and zeppole, for pointing that out.
I'll also have to do my homework re Kindle - that's something on which I'm even more clueless than I've been on trip consulting until yesterday.

So thank you again for all your suggestions (but the one "to make paragraphs" - sorry, but having spent a large part of my professional life as a journalist and author, I'm picky about typography. Actually, I'm making paragraphs all the time, just without leaving a blank line - and thus differing from the ones that I'm making rarely and that you are obviously preferring, with a blank line: but this difference has a meaning in my typography, and is intended. In my opinion, it's just plain wrong to leave a blank line after each and every paragraph, so I'm sorry if it seems more difficult to read, but I'm convinced it's the correct, meaningful way how I'm doing it. Please compare with printed books and printed newspapers... but we'll discuss that on another thread another time!)
franco is offline  
Old Feb 18th, 2011, 05:41 PM
  #23  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ah yes, and I also wanted to answer one more point raised by janisj... I'm not entirely convinced that ALL people posting on Fodor's are "independent folks". Remember the guy who told us these days he's going to fly from Houston to London in order to catch a train to Paris because what he really wants to see is Rome? But of course I agree that not advertising a (possible, but at this stage not even probable) travel planning activity will prevent me from problems with Fodor's. Problems with my (possible) partner if I continue giving free advice here could be another story...
franco is offline  
Old Feb 18th, 2011, 08:17 PM
  #24  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 72,629
Likes: 0
Received 50 Likes on 7 Posts
"In my opinion, it's just plain wrong to leave a blank line after each and every paragraph, so I'm sorry if it seems more difficult to read, but I'm convinced it's the correct, meaningful way how I'm doing it. Please compare with printed books and printed newspapers... but we'll discuss that on another thread another time!)"

Oh heck - let's discuss it now . . .

I know all about typography (in a previous life I was an editor) and you are absolutely 100% correct re the printed word. However you are not writing this on a printed page. This is a website and it is VERY difficult to real long entries w/o visual breaks. One should use the format that fits the medium. On paper normal paragraphs are just fine. But not so on a computer screen.

So sticking to being 'correct' means many people will not bother reading your posts simply because they can't (or at least can't w/o a struggle).
janisj is online now  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 12:36 PM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,351
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I recommend you not do it.

The few people that want deeply-in-depth planning would pay for it, but they're few and far between. The masses would think it's overpriced.

Analogy: last summer at an art fair, someone next to me was remarking how the $15 watercolor she was looking at was overpriced. Now, as an amateur watercolorist, I knew what I was talking about. I said, "The frame alone is worth more. Then too, 3 tubes of paint and a mat come to almost $15, counting the frame or the artist's time". She just stared at me like I was out of my mind, and walked away. There are a lot of people like that, unwilling to pay anything other than 3rd world prices (yet too dumb to see a linkage between such penny-pinching and the nation's unemployment; but that's a separate topic).
tomboy is offline  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 01:36 PM
  #26  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
janisj, just briefly: I'm on Fodor's for precisely five years now and have posted on 817 threads so far; and I'm infamous for my looooooooong posts. My concept of making paragraphs has always been the same. And yet this thread is the very first (of 817) where anybody has questioned my typography. So the problem might not be that grave.

Ok, back to the topic! tomboy, thank you for your thoughts - certainly another valid point against that activity.
As far as that list of travel planners on slowtrav.com that StCirq referred me to, yes it's true that most of them are covering Italy. But it's also true that few of the 24 listed there are actually doing what we're talking about on this thread - they're either plain travel agents in disguise, or covering just one region, or just one special field (weddings, car rentals...).
Of the remaining few, one agency that charges the stiff price of $ 250 per planned trip day for its "platinum plan" proudly posts a sample of those platinum itineraries - and just briefly browsing it, I almost immediately found a bad mistake in the Venice section. For $ 250 per trip day!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Quiz time!! Who finds the 250-Dollars-mistake? http://www.italybeyondtheobvious.com...itinerary.html
--------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, this is a contrary point to what we've been discussing lately. If they find people who are paying that much for such a level of quality, then there should be some potential in that market...
franco is offline  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 02:29 PM
  #27  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cantinone gia Schiavi is not open late enough for after-dinner drinks.

It's also AnticO Dolo, and you can't take an N vaporetto at 5:30 pm.
Zerlina is offline  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 03:14 PM
  #28  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,351
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
OOH
Mistake!
I left out the word "NOT"

s/b
3 tubes of paint and a mat come to almost $15, NOT counting the frame or the artist's time
tomboy is offline  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 03:44 PM
  #29  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I gave the idea of being a travel consultant a small amount of thought last year (really, more day-dreaming) after helping several groups of friends plan trips to Italy and France. Mostly in the area of restaurants and food, as that's what I most love, but hotels too.

My perspective, and as I understand it, yours too, is why not make some money (a quite small amount) doing something that I'm already willing to do for free. (I have a much-better-paying day job.) If that's the case for you, as long as you're protected from the liability end, why not offer your services? And I even think there's room for more "Beginner's Italy" services for those people who do want the stuff that we would probably all say is found in most guidebooks - what to see, how to schedule your day, how many things, realistically, fit in one day, or what places are located close to each other. I was shocked to see that these people who were going to Europe didn't even really have a handle on this kind of stuff.

I would say any information that you've posted here on Fodor's is worthy of providing to someone for a fee (that's true of many of the more experienced travelers on Fodor's).

Anyway, if you have a possible source of business or clients through this friend, give it a try. You could either charge a one-time fee or by the hour, depending on what you're doing.
Lexma90 is offline  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 03:50 PM
  #30  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And the Oscar goes to... Zerlina. Già Schiavi is closing at 8.30 pm every day, and has always done so. (The rest is of course right, as well, but wouldn't actually harm the trip. But if I had paid $ 250 for that day, looked forward to the famous wine bar, and found it closed - well, there would have been something to discuss between me and those travel planners!)
franco is offline  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 04:27 PM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Franco, I have been doing that for 12 years now and just finished my 274th trip plan for clients--many are repeat customers. It is merely a hobby for me, and a fun one.
Contact me directly if you want to know more---I am sure you can find me.
bobthenavigator is offline  
Old Feb 19th, 2011, 04:49 PM
  #32  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you are retired and comfortably well off - and would enjoy doing this as a hobby that will provide a little mad money - I'm sure you can do that.

the biggest risk is that you hook up with some people (seen quite often here) who want what they want despite their complete lack of knowledge - and will never be happy with what you do. If you do pursue this I would be sure that you are fully insured - since there are a lot of people who are extremely litigious - and they tend not to be very reasonable.

I could name a bunch that I have seen over the years, but I remember some travelers from FL who insisted that since they could go to church in FL in shorts, tank tops and sandals they should - and would - do so in italy. the interesting part is that they didn't reveal until well down the thread that they were starting their trip in Venice in January. And didn't like anyone who tried to explain to them that Italy is not located in the tropics.
nytraveler is offline  
Old Feb 21st, 2011, 03:44 AM
  #33  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lexma, Bob and nytraveler, hello! Thank you for chiming in, all your contributions are much appreciated, and the importance of solving the liability question has been noted, thank you for this important heads-up. nytraveler, your tank-tops-in-January story is really hilarious... and also not at all, at the same time!
franco is offline  
Old Feb 21st, 2011, 09:58 AM
  #34  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi everyone, this is Madeline from Italy Beyond the Obvious.

First, thank you so much for pointing out the errors in the sample itinerary. Full disclosure: in the actual itinerary I designed for those clients, Antico Dolo and Cantinone gia' Schiavi were on 2 different days - the travelers had cichetti and drinks at Schiavi about 6 pm on one of the other evenings they were in Venice. I too would have been pretty disappointed to show up there and find it closed! Anyway thanks again.

A few thoughts on this thread:

1) The people who will pay $250 for a day of travel planning are usually very busy people who do not have time to plan trips themselves. Since their time is worth a lot, it means (a) it's worth it to them to outsource the planning, saving pre-trip time and (b) they need everything to flow smoothly on the trip, so they're not spending time problem solving on the trip.

2) If you want to do this (and I do agree there is a huge need for it - I have as much work as I can handle) you can definitely do it as a hobby as many have mentioned (and as I did for 15 years before starting Italy Beyond the Obvious), but consider that you are also providing a very valuable service that people *are* willing to pay for, so you can definitely think about it as a business. So, think about how much time it takes to plan such a trip; how much do you make per trip; and what % of your time is spent trip planning vs other non-income-generating but business-related activities like marketing, travel, email, etc. If you consider that it takes me 45 working hours to plan a 5 day trip to Italy, you can do the math and quickly figure out I am not rolling in the green stuff

I also take quite a few coaching clients - people who want to plan their trips themselves and just want my recommendations, or access to my little black book, as I call it. This is just unlimited email/phone/etc conversations during a 7 day period when we discuss their trip.

3) A big difference between offering suggestions on discussion boards and offering this service to clients is that often travelers on discussion boards (though this doesn't apply to most of you on this thread) post what *they* though about *their* trip, which in my mind is not incredibly useful. Why do I care about Joe & Mary's favorite restaurant in Rome? I might find it too stuffy, too expensive, etc, etc. A huge part of being able to offer this as a service is to be able to put yourself in the shoes of many different types of travelers and make recommendations that suit them (which may not be your personal favorites). For example, I didn't recommend any of the same places to my recent Florence/Tuscany honeymooners as I did for my Indian family of vegetarians traveling around Tuscany, as for the group of retirees I'm working on right now. The places everyone went to overlap, but they want completely different things.

4) Someone made a point about "being local", but I don't think it matters where you live to do this job. Even if I were physically based in Rome, I could spend 100% of my time just scouting out hotels and restaurants and sights in Rome. But then I wouldn't be trip planning. Not to mention there's the rest of Italy. So you need to have good methods, good processes, a network on the ground, and a solid method of getting up-to-date, reliable feedback. I do a lot of cross-checking, and I do 90% of my research in Italian. If you read the testimonials on my site, you'll see a lot of "our hotel was fabulous" "restaurant recommendations spot-on" , and that kind of thing. I don't live in Italy now, but it helps that I worked as a professional tour guide for Butterfield & Robinson and spent 5 years living in the country. So you definitely need to know the country well, and go there, but from a business point of view, you need to be able to spend your time trip planning and not traveling.

Finally, I'd encourage anyone who wants to get into this business to do it. As you seem to agree, it's FUN! Contact me, let's chat. I'm friendly, I promise I'm actually just coaching someone who is setting up the same thing for Africa, And I'm always talking to travel agents about how to add consulting to their services (they don't like to charge for it even though they are often a wealth of information) And it's a big, big sea out there... there's certainly enough business for everyone.
MadelineJ is offline  
Old Nov 9th, 2011, 10:07 AM
  #35  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dear travel consultants, dear travel consultant consultants, I'm resurrecting this old thread since after a few months of sometimes intense and sometimes not very intense musing about your and other advice, my would-be partner (more so than yours truly) is making a new attempt to sort this plan out, and asks me to ask you spare-time or full-time consultants one question: when do you get paid? Up front? After delivery? Half and half? And if not entirely up-front, what if somebody refuses to pay although you've done what has been agreed upon?
franco is offline  
Old Nov 9th, 2011, 10:57 AM
  #36  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I send a bill by email when the trip is all planned and the client is happy. I inform the client as I proceed how much time I've put into it. Sometimes people put a limit on the number of hours; sometimes they're happy with as many hours as it takes. I also inform them of any direct expenses (overseas phone calls, postage, whatnot). I've never had anyone refuse to pay. If you're concerned about that, I would suggest having them sign a contract (I've never bothered with that).
StCirq is offline  
Old Nov 9th, 2011, 11:07 AM
  #37  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I ask for a deposit of $100 upfront. I find that fact to qualify the customer and seperate the tire kickers from serious propects. My total billing varies by trip complexity, but averages about $250 to $300. I have only been stiffed one time among 290 clients--some of which are repeat customers. It is really a hobby--and a fun one.
bobthenavigator is offline  
Old Nov 9th, 2011, 04:33 PM
  #38  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 72,629
Likes: 0
Received 50 Likes on 7 Posts
I generally don't ask for a deposit since most are folks referred by other friends/clients or individuals who found me by attending one of my travel programs. If I was doing more planning for total strangers, I would come up w/ a deposit policy.

They pay me in total at the time I deliver the complete plan/itinerary. This is very often at their home where I sit w/ them for maybe an hour and go over the materials/plan and answer any final questions.
janisj is online now  
Old Nov 9th, 2011, 07:16 PM
  #39  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's a little late for me to read this entire thread, but I want to pitch in and say that there are already some of who are regular posters who do this for a living.

My special niche is to find dedicated drivers and private guides with an academic bent, but I will plan anything from just a hotel to a full tour of the ruins of Sicily with drivers, historians and dinners. My average take is close to Bob's. I too consider it a hobby that brings me a little cash, and I get to meet fabulous people.

I have contacts that met when I was working in another area of travel in Italy some years ago, and it seemed to lead naturally to private planning.

I have done budget B&B trips and luxury don't make me lift a finger trips. They're all fun and challenging.
tuscanlifeedit is offline  
Old Nov 10th, 2011, 08:12 AM
  #40  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you all, once more. Great info!
franco is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
LynnNYC
Africa & the Middle East
25
Dec 31st, 2015 07:25 AM
tom_mn
Europe
29
Apr 8th, 2015 01:47 PM
G. Garbo
Europe
115
Aug 17th, 2013 11:22 AM
I'm a poet
Europe
169
Aug 1st, 2002 08:58 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -