I see my first sentence got cut off. That should read: When anti-American "incidents" occur in the retelling...

This is quite an interesting one. I have been visiting Northern Italy for years.
You mentioned that the person was of Italian-American heritage.
I have only seen two bad incidents involving Americans and both were people who appeared to be fluent in Italian, but with Southern Italian accents.
If you read an author like Moravia, it appears that when the Americans occupied Northern Italy, they got Italian speaking troops to liaiase with the locals. According to Moravia, most of them spoke in Southern Italian dialects and many people couldn't understand them.
It's possible that just as some older people don't like Germans much, they might dislike the sound of an American speaking with a Southern Italian accent.

Hey, my sis and I are leaving for a 12-day tour in two weeks as well, might yours also be with Collette??? Anyway, this is my first trip to Italy and I wanted to see a lot in a short time, so I booked this tour. Usually I go on my own via train and such, but I wonder if tourists ON TOURS sometimes get the brunt of anti-American sentiment. Assuming your informant wasn't overly sensitive and thinking she received nasty looks when they really weren't directed at her, because she's American, maybe just the mere thought of big ol' American tourists bussing by to snap photos just angered a few stodgy Italians at a particular moment, maybe after they'd read the papers or discussed the CIA agent debacle. It's got me mildly concerned, but then again, I was overseas right after 9/11 and again when Bush didn't sign the Kyoto Treaty...etc. Yes there are comments, but you know, we don't always treat tourists that kindly here either. We make fun, get mad at the traffic they cause and such. Life goes on, and it's not like they are going to hurt the tourists physically.

Locals can sometimes be offended when they encounter a large grouping of tourists, i.e. those on a tour. This situation offers an opportunity - because of the anonymity - for someone to act out impulsively.

The rumor stems from "someone who just returned from a tour in Italy". Might this be the explanation?

We haven't visited Italy for a few years, but on past trips we have always been treated warmly and with respect. My husband is of Italian descent and this always seemed to enhance our encounters with locals.

Just a thought, but Italy has been inundated with immigrants in recent years, and it occurs to me that not everyone in Italy is Italian. Isn't it possible that some of the hostile incidents this woman reported could have involved other than Italians with some sort of axe to grind?

Hello again,

We are going on tour with Globus, which incidentlly is the same company that this lady toured with. The person that discussed these incidents with my husband said that she has been on tour to Italy before as well as to other European countries without incident. She was appalled at the difference in the way she was treated this time compared to previous times.

My suspicion concurs with susanteach in that perhaps a few of the more emotional residents read of the recent CIA debacle and they reacted to that. I can see how tourists on American tours can get the brunt of it.

But I'm not going to worry about it. I'm sure that the majority of Italians will separate politics from person to person contact.

It was in the paper yesterday that the Italian government is looking to extradite some CIA agents to face charges on removing a suspected al-qaida (sorry about the spelling) member from Italy without the Italian government's consent. Clearly, the Italians have a right to be upset about us messing with their sovereignty if the charges are true, and there is quite a bit of anger on the part of the people for it. I'm sure if the shoe were on the other foot, we'd feel the same.

That said, I find that the best way to deal with it is to be sympathetic with people when they say something about the sitting President. I usually just say I don't like the president either (Democrat or Republican, this works for them), and that lightens them up considerably. I don't usually discuss politics with them unless its unavoidable or it's a chance to let them I don't care for it either, and that as an American I am also offended by some things the government does.

When I was in Greece in 2003, our hotel owner spoke with us gingerly about politics (I was asking questions about the Turkish/Greek rivalry) and once I just said I didn't care for some of the things the American government did, and GWB in particular, it opened the floodgates. Stellios was very open and honest, never slamming us or anything, but felt that he didn't have to tiptoe around some issues that he felt were important.

I am of the opinion that people are entitled to be conservative or liberal, I just want them to make sure they've thought things through. Having a conversation about political issues is touchy, but sometimes worth it to learn more about how we are viewed.

I'd suggest using this as an opportunity to let the Italians you meet that want to talk about it know that we're not all the same, and that we do care about what they think. Just listening and being sympathetic to their point of view will help tremendously. In their eyes, the American in front of them is the one they can take out their frustrations on, and lately, we've been doing a lot of that around the world.

Just my humble opinion.

Jules

Jules: please read further on the incident: the Italian Intelligence Service KNEW about the situation, and assented to it.

I understand the perception does not equal reality at times. Regardless of what permission we had, obviously there was a big misunderstanding. It's not about arguing the finer points of who-did-what with most people anyway, and if someone thinks they've been wronged than in my mind the discussion is going to be tough going, as our reputation in the world is pretty bad right now.

If I know the truth (and let's just say the Italians did give permission for this action, since they probably did), I'm not going to argue the point with someone who's standing toe-to-toe with me while I'm a guest in their country, particularly if they have the opportunity to spit in my food or directly at me.

I'd much rather make the peace and commiserate that I'm sure they don't like everything their government does or doesn't do either. Most people, regardless of what political leanings they have, can relate to that.

Jules

And one more word on this: simply because the Italian Govt. is acting outraged, CLAIMING that they collectively, knew nothing about the operation beforehand, does not mean that NO ONE in the Italian Govt. did not know about it beforehand, they did.

So are you the one who got that permission? You sound so confident. :)

And please don't answer that question if it means you have to shoot me afterwards. ;)

Jules

My college age daughter spent 6 weeks in Italy last summer. There was a lot of Anti-Bush (and Tony Blair) sentiment concerning the war in Iraq. Signs everywhere, a few protesters. That said, when the Italians learned she was American, they wanted to talk to her about politics and wanted to know her opinion. She avoided confrontation by not getting into any lengthy discussions. She loved Italy and was treated very well in every city she visited.

Looks like the Italians are denying advance knowledge of the CIA kidnapping.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...nap/index.html

One thing I can say with relative certainty: given the dire straits of Italy's economy at present, I'm sure this latest row between our respective countries is making the Ministry of Tourism very unhappy...

Pausanias, that was the story I was looking at this morning, and was about to post it. Thanks.

I think it's not a case of "who knew and when did they know it" but instead a case of "who didn't know and can they convince me that they did know despite not being told." (sic).

Jules

BTW--Either way, whether the Italian government was informed or not, it is against international law to make someone disappear. I just finished listening in the car to NPR and a story on the subject. Since I worked for "the other guy" this past year in the election, it will be very hard indeed to avoid political conversations while abroad. In Poland last year, a VERY old tour guide of the Warsaw Cathedral was in the middle of his tour when he turned to me and said, "God very angry at Mr. Bush." My friends in Vienna also wanted to get into a debate on why Turkey should be allowed into the EU. They are very upset at "W" for his support of Turkey, when historically, the mindset of the EU has been more along the Judeo-Christian powers with common cultural values. Rather than putting down Mr. Bush (against whom I worked tirelessly), I just ask not to talk about it. Even though I can't stand the guy, I can't justify slamming my own country while abroad. Contrarily, I would not allow myself to be "spit upon" and do nothing about it. I wonder what your friend did when a passerby spat upon her? Did she leave the restaurant when the waiter refused to serve her? Not giving her money to those people is a small way of showing that rude behavior towards an innocent will not be tolerated.

A couple things to consider:

1) You mention "tour"... was this person part of an organized tour group? I can see where that might be an aggravation to locals. I believe this kind of groups most certainly draws attention to themselves with their guides narrating loudly at the front of the pack, unwieldy groups together blocking the sidewalk, etc.

20 What was the restaurant situation a waiter refused her? Possibly she was at a restaurant at a time food was not being served? Sat on a patio at a table that was not an open section at that time? Didn't wait for the host to seat her?

3) When I am alone visiting a foreign country, no one would no for sure I was from the US until I speak. How did all these people who bothered her even know for sure she was an American?

With so many negatives to 1 person on 1 trip I have to question that person's own behaviour. I have seen in the past people blaming the anti-American sentiment when in fact they are simply rude tourists acting badly.

If you find (anywhere) a stupid person , he (or she) don't behave like that just because you're american (or russian or chinese , etc..), it's just because he (or she) is stupid.

If you are rude (or behaving a stupid way) it doesn't matter where do you come from , you are treated as you are deserving at that moment .

We just got back. The Italian people were wonderful. The only incident we had was in Paris when an American-Parisian was very rude to one of our teens. The teen passed her on the sidewalk and stopped since she thought the woman was going to ask for help (the woman slowed down) and since she was "old". But the woman made a rude remark about the fact the teeen was American. We didn't encounter any rudeness from the French--only this apparent ex-pat.