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bkluvsNola Mar 4th, 2007 12:33 PM

Worried about late dinner times in Spain (for our toddler)
 
As I've been reading about the late eating times in Spain, I'm starting to get a little bit worried.

Personally, I'm totally okay with eating a light breakfast, giant lunch, small afternoon snack, and eating dinner late as Spaniards do. In fact, where I grew up in Louisiana, we had "dinner" at lunch and "supper" at dinnertime, where supper was usually just a sandwich or leftovers, and dinner (lunch) was a big feast followed by a nap. So I personally would have no qualms "fitting in" with Spain's customs.

However, I am worried about my toddler. First of all, he's in bed by 8:30 PM or 9:00 PM (at the latest), so there's no way we can wait until that late to give him dinner. He typically eats dinner at 5 or 6 PM, so by 8 PM he would be *very* whiny if he hadn't had dinner by then.

He typically eats lunch at around 12 noon to 1 PM, but he possibly could wait until 1:30 PM. Still, I heard Spaniards eat lunch at around 2-4 PM.

So, I'm thinking that we'll probably be going to dinner at tapas bars every day, since they may be the only thing open. Are there any other options? We don't like fast food restaurants and don't really want to eat in the hotel restaurant everyday.

As far as other customs in Spain, at least he'll be okay with Siesta time, as he takes a nap from 2 - 4 PM (LOL).

Any help is appreciated. Again, I want to stress that if it was just me and my wife, we'd have no problems following the local customs. However, our toddler is not respective of other cultures yet (LOL) - when he's hungry, he wants food immediately...

brando Mar 4th, 2007 12:50 PM

Feed your child at his/her normal time and give them some sugar so they stay up a little later then usual. They can snack as your eating your incredible meal and everyone is happy. You taking your child to europe you can't expect to keep your normal schedule. Granted try to keeep as close as possible, but, the flight alone is going to wreck them. Right!!

amyb Mar 4th, 2007 12:58 PM

There's no reason you can't eat your big/main meal at the 1:00-2:00 range and the either do tapas or a snack around 6-7 or whenever you toddler wants to eat. This is what I do when I travel alone, since I'm an early riser who doesn't want to sleep on a full stomach and also would rather not wait for a table at a restaurant at night. There wasn't a restaurant I wanted to try that didn't open midday, so I think you'll be all set.

kenderina Mar 4th, 2007 01:10 PM

Your toddler has a normal schedule for toddlers here (Spain) also (it doesn't mean that you can see a toddler with his parents later on restaurants but it's not the normal thing specially on workdays). And, very often, the toddler just don't eat anything or maybe just a dessert..because they have fed him (or her) first at home :)
Don't worry about it.

NeoPatrick Mar 4th, 2007 01:14 PM

Where do you live normally? Is Spain your only destination? This may seem a little weird. But 10:00 PM in Spain is 5 PM in the eastern US. What about keeping more to your home time (or split the difference? Certainly it will be easier for the toddler to adjust to that than changing his normal 5 PM dinner time at home to eating at 5 PM in Spain if it is actually noon at home. Why not sleep much later in the morning? Have breakfast at 11, lunch at 2:30 or 3, take his nap from 5 to 7, and then dinner at 9.
Who cares what time it is in Spain -- actually their later eating times mean they are closer to your "real times". So that could mean less adjusting than following your US times in Spain. And less adjustment back again when you come home.

lincasanova Mar 4th, 2007 02:03 PM

plenty of places to eat all day long in spain. you wouldnīt be taking your toddler to most table-clothed "restaurants" anyway.. so donīt fret.

if you are in big towns, there are even cafés in the large department store corte inglés with childrenīs menus, serving all day long, so you will be fine.

bkluvsNola Mar 4th, 2007 03:01 PM

NeoPatrick,

That won't work for us as we'll be spending time before and after the Spain portion of our trip in Switzerland. My in-laws live in Switzerland so we will be eating at whatever time they eat.

By the way, we're on Central time, not Eastern, and we're definitely not sleeping in until noon (6 hours difference from CST/CDT) everyday just to keep our biological clocks.


bkluvsNola Mar 4th, 2007 03:08 PM

kenderina,

You mention that it's not common to have a toddler in a restaurant that late. Will we be totally out of place or will they just say "those silly American tourists"?

I'm also concerned that our toddler may get bored during the long meal if he's already eaten. He'll probably lap up the desert in no time and soon after he may get bored.




kenderina Mar 4th, 2007 03:45 PM

No, not out of place :) Just parents avoid it because toddlers, as you say, get bored. But it is for their own confort, not because there's any problem taking your child wherever you go :)

NeoPatrick Mar 4th, 2007 05:11 PM

Fair enough with the Switzerland point, fkluvsNola, but you kind of missed my point. You do realize, I trust, that your toddler is going to be 6 hours off schedule when you first get there if you try to go my local times as your schedule as if they were your home times. And when you come home, he's off by 6 hours again.
And maybe you missed the point about "split the difference" which in your case would mean do things 3 hours (by the hour) later than what you'd do at home, which in fact is still 3 hours earlier in actuality that at home, rather than do everything 6 hours earlier than at home, which is your plan.

bkluvsNola Mar 4th, 2007 07:40 PM

NeoPatrick,

I didn't miss your point. If we weren't going to Switzerland (with the required time changes there due to in-laws) then maybe that (splitting the time difference) would be an option. But even splitting the hours (3 hours), that would mean breakfast at 10 or 11 AM, and honestly, I'd rather be out and about at that time. It will be in the summer, so the heat will be less in the morning and I'd rather be touring than sleeping in the morning or having a late breakfast.

I think your point deserves merit for creativity and works in theory, but I've never heard of anyone that's ever done that :)

By the way, would you have given the same advice if we were going to Australia? It would be much harder to split the difference there...

margyb Mar 4th, 2007 08:07 PM

I think you need to accept that traveling with a toddler is going to be very different than before! You may want to have an apartment so that you can eat some meals in. I think it will be very challenging to have long, late dinners at a restaurant unless your child is VERY tolerant! If it were me, I'd go out for lunch at casual spots where kids are welcome and then either pick up takeaway for dinner or eat in most of the time. Your idea for tapas bars might also work out well.

I've also found that some kids take a long time to adjust to the time change and can be up at all hours.

Good luck and have a great trip!

beaupeep Mar 4th, 2007 08:59 PM

I have a similar problem coming up - but it's my 76 year old mother! She and my sister are coming from Boston to visit my husband and me in first Paris and then here in Switzerland for the first time. My mother has always gotten up between 5:30 and 6 (fortunately I am an early riser like her so can keep her company for breakfast) and she normally goes to bed between 8:00 and 9:00 and has already told me that she has no intentions of going out to dinner at 8:00!

So we are just going to have our big meal of the day at lunch and then make something light for dinner. She can go to bed and the rest of us can stay up and chat....while sampling local wines.

scrb Mar 4th, 2007 09:39 PM

I'm interested in some takeaway from the Cortes Ingles too.

Would be great if they had stuff like Marks and Spencer in London.

Anyways, I hear that Cortes tries to charge credit card purchases by Americans in dollars using a much higher exchange rate than the credit card companies would charge if they charged in Euros?

Anyone deal with this?

Dukey Mar 5th, 2007 12:36 AM

You do not need to accept any charges in Dollars on your credit card.

Simply tell the clerk that you want the charges put through in the local currency (Euro). And don't let them tell you they don't know how to do this.

If they insist, write on the charge slip "local currency not offered" and tell them you plan to dispute the charge with your CC issuer once you return home.

eliza3 Mar 5th, 2007 03:11 AM

We spent two weeks in Seville at Xmas and never ate especially late. This was absolutely no problem although occasionally we were only with other tourists. From observation during that short time I think it is a bit of a myth that all Spanish people eat very late - maybe they do in summer. We have just moved to Spain so expect we will find out!

caroline_edinburgh Mar 5th, 2007 04:28 AM

We once travelled with friends with a toddler - she ate at her normal time & then slept in her pushchair beside us while we had dinner. Would that work for you ?

searcher48 Mar 5th, 2007 05:02 AM

I live in Spain we moved here when kids were 2 & 5. Eating in tourist Towns on the coast is no problem fast food open all day and we chose chinese often, they open earlier 6 - 7 pm and v cheap. In small inland villages it is more difficult(carry snacks and box drinks) find a place with room for toddler to runabout ie near beach or on pedestian street.then have stroller ready for sleeping in. get a good folding one with a reclining back and you can relax over the vino and coffee! Where are you going?

Mariarosa Mar 5th, 2007 05:36 AM

I understand your post very well as I have a toddler who has gone to bed at 6:30 - 7:30 PM since he was about 8 months old, so I always plan for meal times (when travelling in the Americas) ahead of time. I also would try to keep your child's schedule as much as possible. Some kids are more easygoing than others, but we found our child was NOT happy when things did not occur when he had come to expect them. We never adjusted nap times, meal times and bedtimes by more than 1 hour.

When we were last in Spain, if we had had a big lunch, we would "graze" all evening long, starting fairly early (7 PM). In the main towns (Madrid, Sevilla come immediately to mind), cafes that serve tapas were open continuously or opened early for after work drinks (which were accompanied by tapas). You can easily put a great meal together with some ham, cheese, croquettes, tortilla, shrimp, chorizo, etc. And when I've visited in late March/April you can sit outside because it's fairly warm and people watch over your tapas and wine. Note that no Spaniard would consider what I mentioned to be "dinner," but you'll be able to eat and you'll do so at a time that is convenient for you. Good luck and post when you return!

bkluvsNola Mar 5th, 2007 01:14 PM

Thanks everyone for the information. I feel a little more relaxed now.

We will be staying in Barcelona for a few days and then Salou on the coast. We plan to go to Montserrat the first day and then hit all the kid friendly attractions in Barcelona the next few days, and well as Port Aventura in Salou. Then spend the rest of the time on the beach.




bkluvsNola Mar 5th, 2007 01:23 PM

Since it will be the summer, we'll plan to eat outside at cafes so we'll have a quick escape and also that may give him more room to play around if he gets fidgety.

Too bad it sounds like a fancy restaurant is probably out of the question. However, we love tapas so maybe that will make up for it? As long as we can get paella and sangria then I think we'll be okay (LOL) :)

NeoPatrick Mar 5th, 2007 02:02 PM

Mariorosa, I don't get the idea that you say your toddler couldn't adapt to schedule change and you never deviated by more than an hour. Unless your toddler wore a watch and could tell local time, his biological clock WAS making a 5 or 6 hour adjustment to everything, depending on where you live normally. I just don't get this idea that people think because it is 5 PM in Spain but 11 AM at home, the toddler thinks in terms of the 5 PM time as they time he normally eats. You are essentially forcing him to make that major adjustment; it's not one his body or mind does automatically.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you can set whatever schedule you want when you make a major time zone change. The important thing is the same number of hours between each event -- not that the local clocks say it is a certain time.

By the way, as a diabetic I do this myself. When we head to New York or London, I change my daily routine to 2 hours later than at home, so we can eat after the shows, sleep later in the mornings, and have a late lunch. My body really doesn't care what the local clocks say -- rather that my schedule is the same. But no, I don't change my London activities to 5 hours different from home, just a couple for my own convenience.

lincasanova Mar 5th, 2007 02:34 PM

if you would go to a "fancy" restaurant in your country with your toddler, because he is so well behaved, then i see no reason why you canīt do it in spain if you feel he is rested enough to sit around for 2-3 hours while you eat there.

you will find plenty of options.. nice you are travelling with him. he will probably do better than you think.


Mariarosa Mar 5th, 2007 02:43 PM

Patrick - well, I wan't going to get into this, but since you asked I feel I need to answer. We never travelled to Europe with our son, but I've taken more than 10+ trips with him in the Americas. The biggest time difference we attempted with him was 3 hours, and after a couple of days, he adjusted to the new time. So I didn't keep him on our time from home, just the new time that we had all adjusted to. Often we were visiting family, so our new time was pretty much dictated by the times the family keeps. The poster's child will have adjusted to the time change as well, since they'll be spending some time in Switzerland before going to Spain.

Here is what you may have a hard time understanding: toddlers can only stay awake for a certain amount of time before needing a nap(s) and then for another certain amount of time before they need bedtime. It's just the way it is. Adults, if we wake up at 7 AM, we don't necessarily need a nap 6 or so hours later and then bedtime X number of hours later. But toddlers do, and deviating from that can make a child very cranky, unless they are a very easygoing child (and since I know many kids my son's age, I do know a few that are easygoing. Their parents are very lucky indeed!). So no, my child does not know it's somewhere between 7:30 AM and 8:30 AM, but he will ask at around that time for some type of breakfast item. ANd he doesn't know it's between 12:30 and 1:30 PM, but he will start showing signs of tiredness (or overtiredness) It's just the way internal clocks work. We take cues from our environment - when the sun goes up, down, when we get dressed in the AM, when we have our mid-day meal, etc. These are all cues we take that regulate our internal clocks. And it's a good thing when we can match our internal clock with our environment. Think about when our internal clocks are off: we don't feel great (think about jetlag the day after crossing the pond!).

NeoPatrick Mar 5th, 2007 02:58 PM

I guess I'm having a really difficult time making myself understood and should just give up. But I'll try one more time.
If one gets up at 6 AM, has breakfast at 7AM, has lunch at noon, a nap from 3 to 5, dinner at 6, and to bed at 8 PM -- then it is NOT a change at all or any reason to get cranky if he suddenly is thrust into getting up at 8 AM, has breakfast at 9AM, has lunch at 2 PM, a nap from 5 to 7 PM, and dinner at 8 PM and to bed at 10 PM. Especially since those hours are closer to his "home hours" than making a more radical change from his home hours.

All the times between those things are the same as his normal routine.
And yet some seem to think that if suddenly 6 hours were added to all those times (just to keep him on the same "clock" as at home) that is somehow easier than merely adding 2 hours or 4 hours to the usual times.

I'm sorry I just don't get why it is easier for a toddler to adjust to ALL 6 hour changes than it is to adjust to ALL 3 or 4 hours changes. After crossing the Atlantic, the biological clock must be reset -- I'm just saying why struggle to reset it 6 hours if you can reset it 3 or 4?

Mariarosa Mar 5th, 2007 03:47 PM

LOL, Patrick, I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, that's what I'm saying. However, the one factor which is most difficult to control, and which does determine the rest of the day's flow is wake-up time. Maybe her son will be able to wake up at 9 - 10:30 AM to make that 8-9 PM dinner possible and a 10:30 PM bedtime. Our son seemed to wake-up with sunlight and morning street/house noise easily (cues, remember?). It's a lot easier to control environment at home than it is when you're staying at hotels and with other family members.

familytravelforum Mar 6th, 2007 03:31 PM

I traveled through Spain when my daughter was 2 and my son was 1. It was easy to make tapas our main meal in the early evening, so we were able to keep the kids on a reasonable schedule. We ended up getting an "aparthotel" with a small kitchen, so we could make some food ourselves, which also made it easier. Check out familytravelforum.com, which has loads of info on traveling with babies and toddlers, and tips to make it easier.

justretired Mar 6th, 2007 05:46 PM

This is a bit off the topic of toddlers, but I have to say that the situation with meal times is enough to cause me to not want to revisit Spain.

The last time we were there, we simply weren't able to stay up late enough to have a real dinner. Our dinners were always tapas, which are pretty high-fat. It would have been nice to shift to a later schedule, but it's not so easy to get up late. The sun rises, and you start to hear the noises of activities in the hotel.

As a result, we felt we didn't eat very well in Spain, and that was the main reason I'd much rather visit France or Italy. Food is important to us on vacation.

The best meals I had were shellfish, and I love paella. But many restaurants serve paella to a minimum of two people, and my wife is allergic to shellfish. Thus I could seldom have it, and my wife's choices were very limited.

I've thus mostly ruled out Spain as a destination due to the dinner issue. We'll make one more trip there because we want to visit Barcelona, but mostly we'll choose other destinations.

Unless I can learn to take an afternoon siesta.

- Larry

kenderina Mar 6th, 2007 06:05 PM

Larry, what did you visit in Spain ? Out of Madrid and Andalucia...we don't have dinner sooo late. Certainly, not at 6 PM, but most restaurants here where I live open at 8 PM. As an anecdote, I was trying to have dinner after a concert in Barcelona (11'30 PM)and only found opened a pizza hut..The restaurant of my hotel was closed too. I saw the manager of the singer I went to see coming to the hotel with a bunch of sandwiches from an OpenCor shop (24 hours shop), it was funny to see !!!

kenderina Mar 6th, 2007 06:11 PM

And, by the way, Paella Valenciana has no shellfish at all or any other kind of fish , it's only rice, chicken, rabbit and vegetables :)

scrb Mar 6th, 2007 07:16 PM

I would like to avoid high-fat foods too. Will have some tapas but not every day.

I found a directory of restaurants in the Salamanca area where I'll be staying. Curiously, a lot of Asian restos there. Director is at descubremadrid.com, IIRC.

Not a big foodie unfortunately. Had a pretty good Italian meal in Barcelona. ;)

Sue_xx_yy Mar 7th, 2007 04:46 AM

Someone asked about takeaway stuff in El Corte Ingles. They have a fabulous array of stuff, and good thing, because many times it saved our bacon, so to speak, while travelling in Spain (Andalucia). Like justretired, we had problems. In fairness to that country, we weren't there all that long, but for once, we failed to find suitable eateries by simply following our nose when the spirit (and stomachs) moved us. It's the one country I'd research places in advance at which to eat, and where I'd plan meals carefully. As it was, our heads wanted to follow local customs, but our stomachs just wouldn't cooperate.

bkluvsNola, pay a visit to El Corte Ingles, and load up on nourishing snacks for your toddler and yes, yourselves. (I strongly suggest you include a Swiss army knife in your checked luggage, and possibly a few other eating implements, so as to make it easier to make a picnic supper in your room for him and again, possibly yourselves.) Enoy your trip.

bkluvsNola Mar 7th, 2007 07:33 PM

justretired,

We won't have the same problem you had. Both of us are seafood lovers and not allergic to shellfish. Glad to hear they serve it for two. Can't wait for the paella.


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