markland

I was reading this morning about a couple who were scammed by renting a non existent cottage. The article cautioned about payment via wire transfer. It didn't clarify the issue with wire transfers.

The house we're renting in Sarlat, the owner wants a deposit by wire of 300€.

Should or would this ring any alarm bells? I found him via VRBO.

sandralist

Sounds like it already rang an alarm bell with you. Is that why you are posting here?

Have you read independent reviews for the house? Looked it up on Google Street view? Does the renter have his or her own website independent of VRBO? Where else is the rental listed? Flipkey? Homeholidays? Have you asked? How does the owner want the balance of the payment?

I think a lot of people on the internet who rent houses, some of them as renters and others as landlords, still defend this without knowing anything about this owner. But people do get scammed and increasingly many people will not wire money but instead will insist on making any deposit through Paypal or a credit card.

You might want to post a link to the VRBO rental plus post a link to the article you read about the scam if it is online.

There have been a couple of trip reports here recently about people vacation rentals that were booked only to have them unavailable at the last minute (one in London, another in Rome).

Dickie_Gr

Don't do it.

I have goodness knows how many houses. Probably 50.

The only I was ever "done" was the only time I sent cash to The Bahamas, responding to a VRBO ad.

They do now offer a guarantee for a fee.

Michael

Ask if you can do an electronic transfer from bank to bank. You will have to get the RIB of the host's bank, which he could send you with a copy of his deposit slip from his checkbook.

MonicaRichards

It can be really expensive to do a wire transfer from the US to Europe. See if they take Paypal.

markland

Yes, I'm going to enquire about bank to bank, if he insists on wire.

It's about $30 from here to do a transfer.

I'll feel better with PayPal so I'll push for that.

Thanks for the replies, I was a bit worried, maybe panicked a bit after reading that article!

Roald

Another option to cheaply wire money from the US to Europe is TransferWise. I've used it a lot to wire euro's to pounds. It has saved me a great deal and on top of that it's normally quicker than a normal international bank transfer!

TransferWise is way cheaper than Paypal so I would definitely not use PayPal for this transaction.

Via the following referral link you can get your first transaction for free: http://transferwise.evyy.net/c/88623/126664/985

NYCFoodSnob

Many French property owners on VRBO will only accept wire transfers for deposit. The wire doesn't go directly to them or to someplace like Western Union in Africa. They provide personal bank account information and the wire is your bank to their bank.

VRBO offers clear info to avoid fraud. If the owner's listing has been there for years, and if he has years of reviews, you will find the wire transfer to be quite common. A deposit is NOT the same thing as a pre-pay. You have to be very careful with pre-pays. Only an idiot is going to jump through hoops to defraud you of 300€. Fraudsters don't last long on VRBO.

I've encountered French owners on VRBO who don't speak a word of English. That usually means they aren't catering to an American clientele. It seems to be only the Americans who deal with $50 wire transfer fees. It's not as expensive for European customers, as the practice is more common in Europe.

A lot of VRBO members want no part of PayPal. In order to become a member, you have to assign a personal bank account to your Paypal account, and Paypal takes a fee. Europeans don't trust the paper trail that comes with Paypal. And there's also the fear of Charge-backs, which are very unfriendly for landlords.

The decision to honor the owner's requirements largely depends on how badly you want the place. If the owner has been a member for a lengthy period of time, if the owner has reviews, if the owner provides references from fellow renters (people you can contact), then I would trust the wire transfer request.

When in doubt about a specific listing, you can contact VRBO and ask about red flags.

Christina

I'm American and I don't trust Paypal, either, although I've had some French companies (including apt rental) who use it.

My bank (Capital One) only charges $40 for wire transfers to foreign countries. They actually charge more if you want to wire USD abroad ($50) than foreign currency abroad. So maybe some of these people might check that. You don't do this very often, I would certainly pay a $40 wire fee as part of my vacation costs to get an apt I really wanted. It's a lot cheaper to receive wire transfers ($15) than send them at my bank. Of course if you don't trust someone, that's a different story.

NYCFoodSnob

Certain Citibank accounts, like Citigold, charge as little as $20 for the international wire transfer fee. Credit Unions also tend to charge cheaper fees (like $30) for IWT.

indyhiker

I used XETrade recently to do a wire transfer for a rental. You have to jump through a few hoops to set up the account, but there were otherwise no fees and the exchange rate was competitive. We linked it to an account we otherwise keep little money in. The other rental we arranged was through Paypal. Both of the rentals have many positive reviews and the one in Rome came highly recommended through Slowtrav. I'll admit I'm a little more nervous about the other but the deposit was small enough, as was the price overall, that I thought it was worth it in light of the number of positive reviews.

markland

I did a bit of research, and found the owner has been on VRBO for four years. There are only a few reviews, from this past June to 2011, all very positive. I think I'll take the chance.

XETrade sounds worth looking into, thanks for that info. I'm from Canada, and Transferwise doesn't have a Canadian$ option. $30 isn't any kind of issue.

Many thanks

NYCFoodSnob

You can't remain a member of VRBO for four years if you have any fraudulent behavior complaints.

yestravel

Just curious...what is it people don't trust about PayPal? I've used it a number of times for apt deposits in various countries (including France) and never had any trouble. There is a small fee, buts it nominal compared to the $25 my bank charges for an international money transfer.

NYCFoodSnob

Much like the credit card, the perception is that Paypal protects the customer first, and the business that accepts it second. If the customer is unsatisfied with his/her purchase for any reason, the customer can initiate a "charge back." And then a case investigation ensues.

According to Paypal's fine print, it is not easy for a customer to win a charge-back case, but that's not the perception. And most people don't read the fine print.

Everyone in the service business knows that horrible customers exist. Some will do anything they can and go to great length to acquire something for free. Who in business wants to deal with an awful customer? Many VRBO owners don't wish to invite complainers in, and they believe most of the complainers prefer Paypal.

cocofromdijon

As a private owner I agree with yestravel (hi Dona !). I was very reluctant to use Paypal as I used to receive many phishing emails but I gave it a try. I'm happy to say that in about 18 months I didn't have any problems and it is way faster to get a deposit and secure a booking than waiting for a personal check or paying huge fees with a bank transfer. And curiously no more bogus emails.

I've been on VRBO for 4 years as well and I don't think any fake owner would pay a huge fee to have their ad on that website. They'd better put it on a free listing instead.

Markland, I'm sure you'll have a great time in Sarlat !

yestravel

Hi Coco! how are things in Dijon? One of these days we need to get back to that area--such a great trip.

Mara

I have also used xe to transfer money - once to Paris. As indyhiker said above, it is a bit of a hassle to set it up but once you do it's there. I actually recently got an email from them saying I hadn't logged in for 18 months so in order to keep the account active they asked me to log in....

When I have used it, the exchange rate for Euro and Japanese yen was excellent.

Michael

<i>My bank (Capital One) only charges $40 for wire transfers to foreign countries. </i>

There is the fee and there is the exchange rate. Who establishes the exchange rate and how close is it to the average daily rate?

rickmav

We are in the process of renting six cottages/apartments for our next visit, two in Ireland and four in England. We have travelled this way for at least 25 years and have never been scammed - in that there was no accommodation. A number of times the photos were quite different than what was on line/in a brochure, but usually to make the place look bigger. In 2013, for the first time we found one place was very different, because of what they didn't say. The second place, in London, was horribly dirty. In both instances we complained to the owners, in writing, and received our total rental back. I don't know if this was extraordinary or not.

On this trip we have paid for the accommodation:
- A cottage in Cork and apartment in Mayo, both found on VRBO - both owners asked for a bank transfer and provided us with their banking information. Both refused to use Paypal, they said they didn't trust it. We did the transfer online through the Royal Bank (in Canada) - they have a link if you do online banking with them - and it cost us $13.
- cottage in Cornwall - rented through an agency, which I don't like doing because of all the extra fees they charge. But it's a nice cottage in a place we want to be. You have to read their fine print carefully and don't pay until you know everything they are charging. (They charge a booking fee, damage deposit, if you leave something and they have to return it, for a dog, for cleaning, for using a credit card, etc.)
- cottage in Devon - also through an agency. We paid with a credit card and were charged 2% of the total amount. They wouldn't use Paypal.
- cottage in Oxfordshire with owner - sent cheque in pounds. They will hold until we arrive and then return cheque. We will then pay in cash.
- apartment in London with owner, found on VRBO. Had to send money order for 100 pounds. Pay the rest when we arrive.

All different. Certainly makes booking cottages/apartment a challenge, but in our experience it is the best way to travel. Once you travel this way it is difficult to go back to bed and breakfasts, even hotels, except for short periods. I think if you do your due diligence as described by other posters you will be fine. Hope you have a great holiday.