Winter in europe - am I being too ambitious?
 

we are planning a trip to Europe in winter and I just need some advise on whether I've got it right.
Amsterdam (4nights)
Copenhagen (3nights)
Berlin (3 nights)
Munich (2 nights)
10 night trafalgar tour starting and finishing in Munich taking in Vienna, Budapest, Prague Salzburg
Strasbourg (2nights) - for Christmas markets
London (4 nights)
We are planning on taking the train between all these cities except for flying between Amsterdam and Copenhagen and then Berlin. The trains were too long between these cities. My questions:
1. What are the connections between trains like as most have 1 connection. Will we be pressed for time?
2. Is a trip (via train) to Malmo from Copenhagen worth the time?
3. How about driving to Luxembourg from Stasbourg as a day - is it do-able?
4. Worried about Cristmas day in London as I've read there is no public transport (only cabs) and everything is closed. Am I right to assume there would be some restaurats open for Chritmas day lunch/dinner? Any suggestions?

Will approciate any advice... thanks

It's too much moving around for me. Remember that 3 nights somewhere is just two full days. So you are flying to Copenhagen to spend two days (and you are thinking about taking one day to go to Malmo)? Pause and consider what draws you to these places? Have you allowed enough time to visit several of the major things you want to see/do experience in each of your cities? Remember that the more destinations you have the less time you'll have to explore them. Getting form one city to another takes time - at least half a day and usually most of a day (consider the time from checking out of one hotel and into the next). Remember also that you will have limited daylight in all of these places, but even less in Copenhagen and Malmo if you go there. That does limit some things you might want to do.

In the midst of this very fast-paced trip, you are taking a bus tour that will give you no time to pause and explore anything in those cities.

I'd suggest that rather than trying to add in places (Malmo, Luxembourg) that you might want to cut a couple of destinations and lose the bus trip.

IMO this is a bad plan w/ some very long journeys.

And the coach tour seems dreadful . . . Again just IMO. 10 days w/ at least 4 full days on a bus. Since my guess is you already booked the coach tour and are stuck, slow down for the rest and actually SEE some places.

I have no idea why limited day light would mean limited activities. I have spent many winters in Europe including this past Christmas in Denmark and Sweden and I fail to see what activities would be limited. Life goes on as normal, some opening hours of certain sites might be an hour or two less than summer or places like Bakken might be closed for the season but hardly a reason to write off Europe as a place to go in winter.

Personally I don't find Malmo particularly interesting, most people just want to say they have been to Sweden and on the bridge that connects Denmark and Sweden and visiting Malmo seems to accomplish this. If you want to say you have been to Sweden you can do it the more interesting route, which is taking the ferry from Helsingor to Helsingborg.

Christmas Day is usually a time for families & friends at home, not just in London but throughout most of Europe. So it will be quiet but you can find restaurants that will serve Christmas lunch but you need to book those in advance.

I do agree that your itinerary is too much.

I haven't booked anything yet but based on the responses it looks like it's back to the drawing board for me.
thanks for the feedback

"I have no idea why limited day light would mean limited activities. " Really? You don't find walking in parks to be less inviting in the dark and the cold? And the dark and cold would have no impact on scheduling a visit to Pere La Chaise, for example?

I'm not suggesting writing off Europe as a place to go in the winter, just suggesting one be aware of the impact of the dark and the cold on activities.

Hi !
Wow quite a ride. I would suggest skipping Berlin for Hamburg-nicer city prior to X-mas plus better for yr routing. I also agree with the others....a bit too much travel, why do Munich + Vienna + Budapest + Prag. ? Again - skip Munich. And do yourself a favour do not go to a town only for X-mas market ALL of Europe has X-mas markets in December.
Check your train connections as far as platforms etc. Most trains wait.
Have fun.

Pere La Chaise closes at 17:30, so one doesn't sacrifice much, in winter.

We were in Paris two weeks ago: nice weather, 13 ºC, so we walked a lot, sat in parks and squares, and didn't do many things differently than we would have done them in summer.

Sorry - but there is a big difference in visiting a city when it gets dark at 3:30 or 4 pm in the afternoon and when it gets dark at 9 or 10 pm. And while some cities may not be too cold - some can be quite cold with snow - which will make a difference in your doing indoor or outdoor activities.

I personally like cold and all these places would be fine with me - but many people are not used to a real winter and this could be discouraging.

And finally - you just have way too many places - and that bus tour sounds like hell.

I would go to bahn.de - which has train schedules for all of europe (use the drop down box to get to english) and will tell you the amount of time each trip will take (schedules won;t be exactly the same next year - but the elapsed time will be the same. Then pick the places you really want to see the most and pare down the itinerary.

I, agree, completely! WAAY too much moving around!

And I'd rethink being in London for Christmas. Not only is London shut down on Cmas Day it is the day after because they celebrate Boxing Day. And you are likely to not find an abundance of taxis either. So if you want to see and do a lot in London I'd plan it before or after.

Europe is definitely happening... just need to rethink the schedule and whether to do a tour. We've never done a tour before but I just thought a tour would make it easier in winter. All our travel has been independant with a lonely planet guide! We were in London Summner 2014(it was cold!) so if we dont' go back it wouldn't be an issue. I looked at the Rail europe website so will try bahn.de.
what will be an ideal itinerary? We are looking at just over 4 weeks -end Nov to end Dec (want to be back in australia for NYE), We want to experience the culture, food , christmas in europe and see the main sights but to spend too much time in museums etc. What would be an ideal place for chrstmas day?

sorry for the 1000 questions.

Hi Buddy,
Definitely learn to use bahn.de and spend some time trying out different combinations and do not try quite as many destinations!

We spent Christmas 2014 in Germany, having really enjoyed four nights in Seefeld in Tirol just before this.
Do you ski?

Yep - markets are everywhere so you will not miss out.
We loved our time in Seefeld but it might be a little too sedate for you.

I also enjoyed a few days in Paris prior to Seefeld and the weather was pretty good with a little rain and then clear and sunny.
Cold by Aussie standards but nowhere near as cold as Berlin post Christmas when we found -4C a bit hard going.
And yes it does start to get dark around 3.30pm and this is pretty confusing to start with but means you re adjust your activities during the day.
Good excuse to have hot chocolate or a tipple or two!

You do not need a tour to cover places like Vienna, Prague etc but spend careful time with a map and the train timetables.

Note that Christmas day 2015 is a Friday and in Germany things started to close down around 2.30pm Christmas Eve. With Christmas day being an 'at home' type day, and where we were most city shopping areas were shut, (and on the 26th also) you need to plan ahead. In 2015 this means that the day after Boxing Day (27)is a Sunday and again not all places open up on Sundays. I am sure lots of people will make suggestions as to how to manage this!

You will gets lots of excellent advice on this forum so read slowly and digest - and happy planning.

Boxing Day in London is not shut down - it is one of te biggest shopping days of the year.

In The Netherlands, 25th december more or less everything is closed, but public transport runs fine. restaurants can be booked weeks in advance for that day, so plan ahead. Especially in Amsterdam, on the 26th everything is open and lots of people are out and about. And of course the run up to christmas is shopping galore, with nicer stuff in the supermarkets for people's elaborate christmas dinners.
And everywhere in (northern) Europe in winter, what you miss in parks and summer activities, you gain in fabulous window shopping (grand magasins in Paris), city illumination (London, Amsterdam), Ice rinks (London) etc.
Used to go to Stockholm in november for a couple of years for the SIME conference and the city is super cozy then. Really special. Northern Europe really know how to do winter.

So, go with the flow: you'll experience Europe in a very special way.

The museums in Amsterdam are open on December 25th.

Thank you all.... This has been really helpful. I've been researching all day and think I'm going to look at spending at least 5 nights in key cities - probably amsterdam,Vienna, munich and prague, explore the cities and then potentially do day trips. No bus tour! Need to work out where to spend Christmas Day - possibly Prague at this stage

On Boxing Day, almost every single museum and cultural site is closed, and public transportation is limited. Some trains don't run at all that day.

Shopping isn't an activity that appeals to me, and wild horses couldn't drag me to the shopping on Boxing Day.

I was in London last year on Boxing Day, and from my perpective it was pretty shut down, although not as much so as on Christmas Day. We took some walks on Boxing Day, but the smaller streets were full of trash and all sorts of human effluent, including the most unpleasant, because it's apparently a holiday for the street cleaners, and a lot of people went on a bender to celebrate Christmas.

Not to worry, you have lots of time buddy9719 and planning is much of the fun. You are very wise to start so early, before committing to anything.

Perhaps you could prioritize which of the cities is most important to you? Then revise, arranging it so that you visit as many of your favourite cities, without compromising efficiency.

Can you devise it so that the journey is part of the fun?

Get out a map, a ruler, and connect Munich and London in a straight line. Or Munich and Amsterdam in a straight line. Or Munich and Berlin in a straight line. Or whatever cities are most of interest to you in as straight a line as possible, play around, and see what you come up with.

Have fun!

OK - if you think London in summer is cold (granted it can be chilly and damp at times but nothing like cold - which would be freezing: 32 F or 0 C) then you need to be careful about northern areas or even the central european plain - where you can get real cold and substantial snow in the winter.

I would look carefully at the average weather so you know what to expect.

We are planning on taking the train between all these cities except for flying between Amsterdam and Copenhagen and then Berlin. The trains were too long between these cities.>

You may want to look at the Eurail Select Saverpass for 5 or 6 days or whatever your longish train trips are - valid in 4 countries - Benelux -Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg as a unit for this purpose; France, Germany and Denmark - first class pass and in all those countries save France you can hop on virtually any train anytime. Compare vs ordinary tickets, especially in first class, will be a good deal. But if you wante the cheapest it may be to go the discounted ticket route but then you have to book in stone weeks, months ahead of time to get those limited in number tickets - and if at all close the the cost of a first-class pass go for that - IME of years of European rail travel first class has definite benefits, especially for those hauling around luggage.

For lots of great info on trains and passes in those countries I always spotlight these IMO superb sites: www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

consider overnight trains on long connections - saves time even over flying and saves on the cost of a hotel - too bad the night train link between Amsterdam and Denmark has been cut (I think not sure) and ditto for Copenhagen to Berlin. See www.seat61.com for updates on that if interested.