Changing hotels will at up a lot of time--usually t takes at least half a day to check out, travel to the new place, check in, and so forth. I agree with others who have suggested staying in just London, Paris, and Rome, but considering some day trips to nearby places that interest you. That way you won't waste time dealing with a new hotel, just travel to the new place for the day and be back to the same hotel at night.

From Rome, choices include Ostia Antica (Pompeii-like excavations in the Roman suburbs, less than an hour away), Orvieto (Umbrian hilltown, 1 hour away), Florence (famous center of Rennassaince art, 1.5 hours away), Naples and Pompeii (2-3 hours away).

Thank you so much PQ those links were just what i needed for the trips on trains between london and paris and paris and italy!

Be in london from the Jan2-6
taking eurostar on 6th to paris
paris from 6th until 9th
take overnight train on 9th to italy!!! and stay until 15th when my plane leave italy
yay! everything is fitting together so nicely!!!

Has anyone taken a tour to Versailles?? I want to know if its worth it... and i also found this and thinking of doing this too http://www.evanevanstours.co.uk/sali...henge-bath.htm

what do you think???

thanks

I have not taken a tour to Versailles but have gone there several times on my own - very easy - take RER C of the Paris Metro to a Versailles terminus just a few blocks from the Palace. The palace tour i believe is mainly self-done by a walk thru - but leave some time for the delightful gardens (even in Jan worth a look) - a half day can be enough for this all.

Anybody used Evans tours?? The link in my earlier post this morning.... for going to salisbury, stonehedge, and baths.....
if you've used a tour a really loved them please post... thanks:)

jw - you are going off on many different ideas here, which is fine as you are exploring options, but if you really want to get answers to specific questions, such as about Evans Tours, then you should post another thread with Evans Tours or Salisbury-Stone-Bath Tours Info Wanted and you will get much more attention for it.

As for the Eurostar train you should be booking that now - as fares on site can be literally hundreds of dollars higher than advance purchase of cheaper fares, though which are only sold in allotments and even now may be sold out for many trains in early Jan. Weekdays are the best for cheaper fares, when demand is lower. Best one way fare is actually a day return fare where you simply do not return - can be $90 - if you are 60or over Senior are is similar (if under 26 Youth fare can be cheaper even) - but typically fares of $120-140 can be expected booking this late. If you have a railpass covering France, however then you can get a Passholder fare of from $85 up i believe and this fare can even be changed once without penalty in London up until the time of the train (subject to another seat in that fare category being available) - so go to www.eurostar.com to survey fares in Pounds for London to Paris and also go to www.raileurope.com for fares in U.S. $. Sometimes the Pound fares are better and sometimes the dollar fares are - seems to be little rhyme or reason to fares here or there. I always advise calling someone to do a manual search for dollar fares as raileurope.com IME does not always display fares that may be available (a common complaint on fodor's - e-mail coming back from RE saying fare is also higher) - I always advice contacting www.budgeteuropetravel.com and having someone there - an expert IME and IMO - do a manual search for you. They will also answer any questions you have on European trains or passes. To speak to someone at Raileurope.com you have to be ordering and then pay 10% higher for phone orders. Anyway the early bird does get the worm with Eurostar fares. But be careful many cheaper fares are non changeable nor refundable either. If ordering thru the U.S. you pick your ticket up at the Eurostar check-in - getting just an e-mail thing here same as from eurostar.com i believe.

Since the questions you are adding to now are completely different than what you started out with, you might want to start a new and separate post with something more specific in the title about the new information you need.

(Not trying to scold, just be helpful, since you said you were new here)

k.. thanks...
yes i already booked flights (to london out of rome) hotels for london, paris, rome
and i booked the trains too!!!
i got a great eurostar deal $usd 69 from london to paris

and i got a sleeper (just me and person traveling with) from paris to italy for $220
i think i did well

I also will start new thread for other topics thanks!!!:)

JW..what you described is nothing more than a "drive-by". IMO, this is not "seeing" London. I have visited London dozens of times, and still have not seen it all. I always leave longing for more. I think janisj makes a lot of sense with her itinerary. Even then, you'll not have seen very much of any of these beautiful cities.

jw - Eurostar for $69 one way? What kind of fare is this - i did not think $ fares came so cheap? Thanks

pq- i took your advise and looked at BETS- i definitely recommend!!!
and they helped me
the ticket for me is 68 actually but for mil its 99(price in usd-( i did have to pay a one time reservation fee but it was only 18 bucks but i only had to pay it once to get the four train rides which them doing the work... 18 was cheap, haha)
it was the cheapest ticket available.. which was fine because its only about 2-3 hours
its from the paper
Eurostar Youth 6 2nd class: london-Paris
Eurostar Leisure 3 2nd cl: london-paris

BTW PQ Thank you so much!! Your very helpful!!

As a fellow Southerner who uses the word diddly daddly from time to time (albeit not in public or in a forum), let me offer some kind words of advice.

1. 1-2 days in Paris (not counting Disneyland) is laughable. Why would you even waste the time or money to go to Paris just to see a tower and a chathedral? I recently went to Charleston S.C. for three days and could have easily spent three more.

Paris is one of the greatest cities in the world, anything less than five days is insane. Especially if you want to go to Versailles.

2. Disneyland Paris???? You've got to be kidding right? You only live an hour and a half from WDW. Go see the fireworks at Magic Kingdom, spend a day at Animal Kingdom and call it a trip.

3. You may never get a chance to go back to Europe. I would recommend 5 days in Paris, 5 days in the Swiss Alps, and 4 days in Rome and forget London.

Enjoy your trip.

maybe i'll change my mind about paris when i get there, but as of right now I'm good with just doing the cathedral and etower..... and versailles.. and disney....
i want to experience disney in another country and im not sure if i'll ever get to china so this is my chance...
I really don't see anything ELSE that seems interesting to ME in Paris.....
i'm also afriad of a language barrier that could exist and i think 3 daysish well be enough for me....

anybody else ever had this concern about "being lost for 3 days in paris"?

Eiffle Tower, Disney, Notre Dame & Versaille are the ONLY things in Paris that are of ANY interest to you?

Sorry I can't help because that is THE craziest thing I have read on this forum in a LONG time.

<anybody else ever had this concern about "being lost for 3 days in paris"?>

Yes - my first time there as well - many years ago - the first time you are faced with a language barrier - but put that angst to rest - it just will not be a problem - just believe me on that.

Paris has huge maps posted on practically every street corner that pinpoint your position. Paris is a great walking town and i suggest a walk from Notre Dame Cathedral up thru the Louvre (archway) into the Tuileries gardens and then over the Pl Concorde and up the Champs Elysees - seeing so many Parisian landmarks and impossible to get lost on.

To say x number of days in a certain city is the minimum and anything else in crazy is to me simply a value judgment and should be taken as such.

Veteran travelers IMO often forget when they were novice travelers and usually on their first trip to Europe did flit about - spending three days here - two day there, etc.

My first trip to Paris way back in 1969 i stayed three days and though i had a great time i was ready to get moving and see some of Europe as well. Yes 5 days would be great - 6 better and so on and so on - but that precludes that you want to see museums bascially, etc.

You could easily do 3 days in London, 3 in Paris, and then 8-9 in Italy - Rome, Florence and Venice. Again better some will say to spend all your time in say Rome - but to me just having seen Florence or Venice even if just for a day or two is better than seeing only Rome

It's your first trip and then later you may want to come back and yes stay in some cities you like longer.

Wait! someone else is going on this trip with you? And is okay with the whirlwind pace and wasting a full day in Europe at Disney? And seeing no art in Paris?
The first time you go it's natural to be nervous about the language barrier-although, since you're hitting only the most touristed spots, there won't be much of one. But limiting your stay in the finest cities in the world for that reason is silly-then you might as well spend the vacation at Epcot!

You can easily spend 1 week in any of these 3 cities and still feel like you're skimming the surface.

For a 2 week trip, I would consider picking 2 of the 3, and maybe adding some day trips. You can do all 3, but you have to realize you'll be loosing some time travelling between the 3, add jet lag and flight times to and from the US, your 2 week trip quickly turns into 10 days.

Consider each major city requires at least 3 full days without jetlag(which usually means 4 nights). ANd I like to spend a good day or more, just wandering around and exploring different neighborhoods without a particular sight or destination in mind.

I think the Disney visit is silly, unless you have small kids that need a break from museums and city life. Paris is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, why take a day away from that to visit man-made amusements you can see in the US.

<I think the Disney visit is silly, unless you have small kids that need a break from museums and city life. Paris is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, why take a day away from that to visit man-made amusements you can see in the US>

Different strokes for different folks, something many of us have trouble understanding in our often IMO too prescriptive didactic remarks.

PalenQ~ I didn't say the *amount* of time she spends in Paris was crazy, rather that there are only 4 places of any interest to her.

So yes I guess that is a value judgement. Because I believe there are more than 4 places anyone lucky enough to be in Paris would be interested in seeing.

Suze - i agree with what you say - i only object to statements that 'a minimum of 5 or whatever days are a minimum' in any place.

the minimum amount of time will vary as to what your interests are. jw wants to go to EuroDisney and that's fine and it will take a whole day.

We might say that day would be 'better' spent traipsing around the Louvre, Orsay, etc. and most would agree - but OP may well enjoy the EuroDisney experience more than the Louvre, which many folks i think regrettably get dragged into.

I only went to EuroDisney because i had a young French son - twice but i loved seeing how it differed, etc. and how folks from all over Europe interacted - yeh the Italians tried to constantly cut in lines.

jw0721,

I totally respect your ambition. I think it's great that you want to see as much as you can.

Here's a few things I'd like to suggest for you:

-check out these sites: www.paris-pass.com www.parismuseumpass.com www.londonpass.com www.londontown.com
You can check out all the main tourist sites. Those websites sell those city passes which probably wouldn't be much interest to you if you're not visiting enough of the sites but can give you an overview of what to do. I can understand you're not a big museum or art fan (you don't mention any museums in either city you're visiting). While the museums in Paris and Rome can get expensive and the lines very long, all the main museums in London are free. You could spend an hour in the British Museum, the Victoria & Albert Museum or the National Gallery without having to wait or pay anything. The British Museum has so much stuff, I'm convinced you can find one room inside that'll interest you. The National Gallery has mostly paintings. Also check out the Tate Modern for a different view on "art". Some smaller London museums are also free, you can find all of those on many London tourist websites. Google any museums to find out about their collections. If you think you're not really a museum buff, don't stop at the word museum. Many are very interactive and can be fascinating (National History Museum and Science Museum, for example).

-in London, also consider going to a play or a concert. Check these out: English National Opera, Royal Court Theatre, Globe Theatre. Most of the theatres offer cheap standing tickets on the night of. If you want musicals, you have so many to choose from!

-in Paris, you could take one of the river cruise at night. It's a great way to relax from your day and you'll see amazing city landscapes that you'd never see from the street. It's well worth it.

-for Versailles, consider this: http://www.transilien.com/web/site/a...ailles/lang/en It could probably save you quite a bit of money. I'd suggest you to drop Disney and spend more time in Paris, but that's just the very humble opinion of a French woman on the invasion of Americans in France ;) Also, it's going to be the middle of the winter and the weather can be rather cold, so be sure to bring appropriate clothes if you really want to go there.

-if you want more ideas for attractions and sights, be sure to visit the Destinations section on this website, as well as the Rick Steves' and Lonely Planet websites. You'll find great information there.

Back to the EuroDisney thing - i wonder what some of our more prescriptive folks would say - say if instead of EuroDisney jw had say wanted to spend a day tracking down some shop where they made some crystal or whatever - does not matter what - but in that case i do not think there would be universal condemnation like we got with her desire to go to EuroDisney - of course not because tracking down some crystal shop would be considered more culturally admirable - but to me it's the same - OP strongly expressed desire to go to EuroDisney and his/her reasons are just as valid as someone devoting a day for example to go to the Sevres Crystal Manufacturing place in Paris.

Too bad many it seems cannot just understand that if someone has a huge desire to do something why pooh-pooh it.

Different strokes for different folks! Help them realize their dreams and not smash them IMO.

i hate it when people discourage and say visiting a country or city for one day or three is not possible, not doing it justice, blah blah blah. as i said in my other post, not everyone is retired, unemployed or has the luxury to tour for 3-4 weeks like you do.

jw0721, I actually think your plan to be in London for 5 days (what time of day will you train to Paris?), Paris for 3 days, and Rome for 5 days is completely doable. Being in each of those places longer might be better, but it's not crazy. Last time we went to Europe for 2 weeks, we flew into Amsterdam and spent 2 days, flew to Prague and spent 4 days, trained to Berlin and spent 3 days, and flew to Nice and spent 6 days in Juans Les Pins. It was a fantastic trip. No, we didn't see much countryside, but we saw plenty in the cities, and lots of towns on the French Riviera and hill towns nearby.

However, I highly recommend that you not give Paris such short shrift! I would definitely recomming skippin Disney, or at least, don't buy your tickets in advance, so you can change your mind when you find out how much you love Paris -- everyone but everyone says it's nothing compared to WDW and the Magic Kingdom in Anaheim.

I have a great little guide to the sights of London both big and small(I've been a number of times, but I still use it as a reference) that I'd be happy to copy and send to you. Email me at [email protected] (that's my "public" email address) if you want it.

Regarding Paris, PLEASE don't skip the Louvre and the Musee d'Orsay, even if you aren't art museum people (we're not - we do a couple of hours at most, but these are not to be missed -- just like you want to see the Eiffel Tower, you should at least see the Mona Lisa and other highlights). Also, a cruise on the Seine is fabulous - a great way to see all the many bridges and the buildings from a different perspective. And the walk from the Notre Dame to Eiffel Tower would be long, but would also give you the opportunity to see so much....

Well I think she *should* go to Paris Disney. I think everyone should do whatever they want to with their time and money!!!

I don't care WHAT the choices are, but to say there are only 4 things in a major European city of any interest, that is the part I was thinking it is a tad naive and am assuming this must be a first trip is why she doesn't understand all that is available to see & do.

I think I've done each extreme and have never had a bad trip. Have spent three weeks at a time (twice) in one small village in France, but have also done Rome in a day and gone to Disney Paris.
There are no wrong answers. (And I did love the rides at Disney with all those familiar songs in French.) Do it how you want this time. Europe will still be there if you want to do it a different way later. Have a wonderful time.

<If you think you can see London in 3 days - it is your trip. Go for it.

But you did ask for help>

yes help but not saying something that is possible is not - prescriptively saying that you cannot see London in 3 days, which to me is rubbish

you could look at it that you cannot see London in 3 weeks for that matter - depends on what 'see' means and i think for the first-time traveler who wants to see as much of Europe as possible three days in London is just fine. Of course more the better but the attitude that if you don't spend more than 3 days don't even go is to me simply being too prescriptive.

Three Days in London

1- Tower of London and South Bank area - ride the Ferris Wheel (Eye Over London - stroll up to Trafalgar Square area - take in a theatre play at night

2- Buckingham Palace area - Changing of the Guard - Westminster Abbey - Parliament area

3- British Museum, shopping on Oxford/Bond Street - Covent Garden area. National Museum at Trafalgar if museums are your bag.

That's all the main sights in three days.

Add St Paul's Cathedral to day 1 and even the Tate Modern if of interest.

Check out Easyjet.com for flights from London to other EU cities. I am using it to get from London to Barcelona Feb 2009. Only $75!!! Saves more time than a train.

And Ryanair.com for similar to EasyJet

<Wait! someone else is going on this trip with you? And is okay with the whirlwind pace and wasting a full day in Europe at Disney? And seeing no art in Paris?
The first time you go it's natural to be nervous about the language barrier-although, since you're hitting only the most touristed spots, there won't be much of one. But limiting your stay in the finest cities in the world for that reason is silly-then you might as well spend the vacation at Epcot!>

The person i am traveling with had only one request for Paris. The etower.
She is fine with Disneyland in Paris! And Epcot doesn't even have a tower (i've been many times, Hollywood Studios has a tower but it's the tower of terror, haha). I've been to the replication of the etower in King's Island in Ohio! It was great! I can't wait to get on the real one in less than a month!!!


And thank you to all for the rest of the suggestions... I will take them into consideration this week as we plan out specifically what we do each day in those cities... and I will run the days by you later this week!!!!i'm so excited!

The eurostar from london to paris is on the 6th i believe at 7pm

We will be touring the Vatican. And a few museums in london and paris.
I'm cool with art and such.
When I went with California with the hubs, we went to Getty Museum. It was fun!


And yes I said only 4 things interest ME in Paris. I didn't say there wasn't more to see. Yes this is my first Europe trip. I merely said that those are the only things that I HAVE to see. :) I understand I'm missing out. It's okay, I'll be going back one day with the hubs and I'll want to see new things! At least next time I'll know what to do and what not to do!

Here's a trip update that is long overdue. Well the trip was fantastic! London was fantastic and we did so much! I would not recommend evans evans tour you have to go so fast! My schedule was nothing compared to their day tour lol!
But it was a nice overview if you like to jog the windsor castle!
We seen the palace, west minster abbey, eye, parliament houses, tower hill, globe theatre, river cruise, tralfagar square, bath, windsor castle, and stonehenge (some other things too but this is main stuff)
We took the eurostar to paris and we were supposed to have a service ready to pick us up to take us to the hotel, but they never showed. I wish that didn't happen, but we took a taxi to the castle hotel at disney!
Disney was fantastic! It was cold, but omg disney in snow is absolutely amazing and something that's so magical! You will never be able to see this in Florida!!! We went to Versailles one day and that was amazing as well! I Loved being able to see the Hall of Mirrors like I have studied about. And we went to louve and the tower one day (enough said I wouldn't go back)
We then travelled on the overnight train to rome! And that was a great experience. I would recommend it! Never have I ever experienced something so funny and scary at the same time! It was a fantastic experience!
We arrived in Rome and went to the hotel which was basically right around the corner from the vatican! Rome was fabulous we seen the pope at the papal audience, we visited st peters basilica and the crypts, vatican museum, coliseum, pantheon, and the list keeps going and going... so much off the top of my head I'm having a hard time remember what the exact names were. haha
I loved this! I have now meet so many new people on a later trip I just took to australia. I can't wait to go back to these places and visit for longer and visit with the great friends I made.
So yes more time i could have seen more. But the time I spent in each place was ample for a first trip just going to visit for a bit. And I actually thought it was the perfect amount of time in each place!
But I am a young person but i was traveling with an older person and they kept up just fine!
All in All I wouldn't change a thing! It was a GREAT first trip to Europe!!!

Thanks
Fodors!

JW, thanks for posting back. Sounds like you had a great trip.

You have me curious - what was scary on the overnight train?

no problem! I did!!!!
on the train: we traveled from our car to the dinner car and it was freaky, having to basically hop from car to car! haha..... and my bed was the top "bunk" i guess you would say and i was afraid i was going to fall onto the floor in the middle of the night if there was a sudden stop!!!
Thanks for asking willt
sorry about the delay in answering i can't see posts

and my bed was the top "bunk" i guess you would say and i was afraid i was going to fall onto the floor in the middle of the night if there was a sudden stop!!!>

did you know how to put the metal railings up that always are on the top most bunk? It may not have been obvious but these if locked into place should prevent any falling during the sleep, which IME could be lethal, given the distance and myriad of objects being stowed on the floor.

no i didn't see that, but this next time I will look for them!! :) Thanks