Why No U.K. Trains on Christmas, Boxing Day?
Dec 22nd, 2007, 06:01 AM
#1
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Why No U.K. Trains on Christmas, Boxing Day?
British Rail regularly ran trains on Christmas Day and Boxing Day until 1964 after which most if not all Christmas Day service was squashed and even on the following Boxing Day only a few skeleton services run i believe - apparently due to the rise of the car culture.
But not to any tradition or perhaps labour contracts it seems.
Now rail user groups are agitating for the return of Christmas service as a means of going thru the woods to grandmother's house i guess.
Britain remains the only country i know of in Europe, if not the world, where on one and for most two days nearly no trains run.
And this is not for essential track work either i believe.
Why no trains at Christmas in U.K.?
But not to any tradition or perhaps labour contracts it seems.
Now rail user groups are agitating for the return of Christmas service as a means of going thru the woods to grandmother's house i guess.
Britain remains the only country i know of in Europe, if not the world, where on one and for most two days nearly no trains run.
And this is not for essential track work either i believe.
Why no trains at Christmas in U.K.?
Dec 22nd, 2007, 06:05 AM
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was in 1964 but now apparentl user groups claim that many folks would take trains
much like they do as usual to visit relatives i guess.
What is the difference between car culture in England and that in every other European nation?
Besides driving on the wrong side of the road?
much like they do as usual to visit relatives i guess.
What is the difference between car culture in England and that in every other European nation?
Besides driving on the wrong side of the road?
Dec 22nd, 2007, 06:32 AM
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I understand that pubs are open, at least some on Christmas Day - i guess pub workers don't do Christmas? Or restaurants? Or taxi drivers? Etc ETc Etc
And i really don't care just find it odd Britain being the only country without essential transportation for a society that depends more and more on trains, esp in London area.
And i really don't care just find it odd Britain being the only country without essential transportation for a society that depends more and more on trains, esp in London area.
Dec 22nd, 2007, 09:36 AM
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Don;t think it's the car culture. Since we in the US have the car culture strongest and longest - and all of our trains run 365 days per year. On Holidays the schedules are reduced - to perhaps half of a regular weekend day.
And in NYC the subways run 24/7/365 - with lots of extra trains on New Years morning to take home the 1 to 2 million (depending on the weather) people from Times Square.
And in NYC the subways run 24/7/365 - with lots of extra trains on New Years morning to take home the 1 to 2 million (depending on the weather) people from Times Square.
Dec 22nd, 2007, 10:08 AM
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We take taking two days off at Christmas more seriously than anyone else. As a result, we have a strong culture - though one that's only developed in the past half-century - that working over Christmas has to be voluntary, and paid at two-four times standard rates. The only real exception to this is in real emergency services, where there's an equally strong culture of "we're very conscious we're doing this"
Since we have fewer public holidays than practically any other affluent country (including the overleisured Americxans) and work longer hours than anyone else in Europe, we deserve it.
Trains are a unique case. They can run only with a huge infrastructure to suppport them. It's not just train drivers who want Christmas off: it's signalling staff, station staff, people in marshalling yard and the rest. And the system works only if it's fully manned.
In shops, it's possible to function with an awful lot of poorly trained (mostly young or Polish) temporary staff. That's not possible in the railway system, where unions aren't even prepared to discuss earning multiples of five or six: the railway system would need 80%-100% staff turnout, and the kind of people who work on the railways simply aren't prepared to work over Christmas in the way that gap-year Australian barstaff in Lomdon are.
Flannerprediction: The British Isles (the underlying principle applies as much in Ireland, but not in Scotland, as in England) will see its Dec 25/26 workforce grow over the next decade. But not on the trains, and not on most bus services.
Since we have fewer public holidays than practically any other affluent country (including the overleisured Americxans) and work longer hours than anyone else in Europe, we deserve it.
Trains are a unique case. They can run only with a huge infrastructure to suppport them. It's not just train drivers who want Christmas off: it's signalling staff, station staff, people in marshalling yard and the rest. And the system works only if it's fully manned.
In shops, it's possible to function with an awful lot of poorly trained (mostly young or Polish) temporary staff. That's not possible in the railway system, where unions aren't even prepared to discuss earning multiples of five or six: the railway system would need 80%-100% staff turnout, and the kind of people who work on the railways simply aren't prepared to work over Christmas in the way that gap-year Australian barstaff in Lomdon are.
Flannerprediction: The British Isles (the underlying principle applies as much in Ireland, but not in Scotland, as in England) will see its Dec 25/26 workforce grow over the next decade. But not on the trains, and not on most bus services.
Dec 22nd, 2007, 10:27 AM
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Flanneur has hit it on the head.
We Brits like our days off. In my field (Local Govt) most staff clocked off on Friday and won't be back until 2nd January - this only costs four days holiday.
This is quite a recent thing. Many people in England, and especially scotland can remember Christmas day being a working day (or at least at half day).
Most people don't actually want to travel on Christmas day. We want to eat too much drink too much sherry and watch Doctor Who on telly. So it's not as if anyone's being inconvenienced.
Cholmondley - working on Christmas day on triple time (and clocking off in time for Doctor Who and going home in a cab paid for by his employer - as all seasonal on-call staff do - to catch up on the sherry)
We Brits like our days off. In my field (Local Govt) most staff clocked off on Friday and won't be back until 2nd January - this only costs four days holiday.
This is quite a recent thing. Many people in England, and especially scotland can remember Christmas day being a working day (or at least at half day).
Most people don't actually want to travel on Christmas day. We want to eat too much drink too much sherry and watch Doctor Who on telly. So it's not as if anyone's being inconvenienced.
Cholmondley - working on Christmas day on triple time (and clocking off in time for Doctor Who and going home in a cab paid for by his employer - as all seasonal on-call staff do - to catch up on the sherry)
Dec 22nd, 2007, 10:50 AM
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We are still several days from Christmas, and yet it took my daughter more than 5 hours to get home by train from Bristol this afternoon (only about 30 miles by car, and less than that as the crow flies...) due to delays and cancellations on the trains.
However it would have taken me the same amount of time to have driven to Bristol and collect her given the traffic today with people driving home for Christmas clogging the M5/M4 and the shoppers clogging the M32 into Bristol and the M5 at Cribbs Causeway.
I'm already dreading travelling to Bristol Airport next Saturday the 29th for my ski getaway... At least it's not run by BAA so no strikes planned - yet.
Happy Christmas to those of you who don't have to travel by British Rail over the festive period!
However it would have taken me the same amount of time to have driven to Bristol and collect her given the traffic today with people driving home for Christmas clogging the M5/M4 and the shoppers clogging the M32 into Bristol and the M5 at Cribbs Causeway.
I'm already dreading travelling to Bristol Airport next Saturday the 29th for my ski getaway... At least it's not run by BAA so no strikes planned - yet.
Happy Christmas to those of you who don't have to travel by British Rail over the festive period!
Dec 22nd, 2007, 11:00 AM
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The most exhausting part of planning our Christmas Eve trip to the UK has been TRANSPORTATION! I am still holding my breath that we get where we need to be in one piece!
What time is Doctor Who on?
What time is Doctor Who on?
Dec 22nd, 2007, 12:35 PM
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Its probably just a simple question of economics and ensuring passenger safety.
You can't just run a small bit of the rail network, you need to run pretty much all of it and the support services too or H&S laws could be breached.
If there was an incident that caused injury or loss of life on a partly resourced service, heaven knows where the rail companies would stand.
As there are only a relatively small proportion of passengers expected, it doesn't justify paying 3x the hourly rate for every member of staff, plus probably giving them a day off at some other time.
Besides, employment laws dictate they must have a certain number of days off a year, and what better time to have some of them, but when the network is relatively quiet.
These days are also National holidays.
Whether things change in the future we shall have to wait and see, but the rail network here has always been a bit backwards....lol
Muck
You can't just run a small bit of the rail network, you need to run pretty much all of it and the support services too or H&S laws could be breached.
If there was an incident that caused injury or loss of life on a partly resourced service, heaven knows where the rail companies would stand.
As there are only a relatively small proportion of passengers expected, it doesn't justify paying 3x the hourly rate for every member of staff, plus probably giving them a day off at some other time.
Besides, employment laws dictate they must have a certain number of days off a year, and what better time to have some of them, but when the network is relatively quiet.
These days are also National holidays.
Whether things change in the future we shall have to wait and see, but the rail network here has always been a bit backwards....lol
Muck
Dec 22nd, 2007, 12:55 PM
#15
Funny, people in France like their holiday time off, perhaps even more than the British, but nobody would ever imagine stopping major transportation on a holiday, especially since people are encouraged every day of the year not to use their cars if possible and even more so on holidays.
Dec 22nd, 2007, 01:09 PM
#17
Seems it's not just Christmas and Boxing Days - "Rail travellers could yet face problems because the West Coast Mainline is closing for five days from 27 December." (from the BBC web site).
Dec 22nd, 2007, 01:32 PM
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My niece has been studying at university in the UK for several years now, but this is the first year she couldn't fly home to family in the US until Christmas Day. I guess not only do the trains not run, but also the bus service she would normally use to get from Cambridge to one of the London airports.
Her solution is that she is going to the airport on Christmas Eve and spending the night in the terminal. I'm not sure I'd come up with the same solution, but I envy her youth and sense of adventure even in overnighting in an airport terminal.
Her solution is that she is going to the airport on Christmas Eve and spending the night in the terminal. I'm not sure I'd come up with the same solution, but I envy her youth and sense of adventure even in overnighting in an airport terminal.
Dec 22nd, 2007, 02:03 PM
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The trains in my area (home counties/East Anglia) sometimes do run a limited service on Boxing Day, and on News Year Day too. But this year, Liverpool Street is closed for something to be demolished (Tie Rack and McDonalds hopefully!) so there's a complete shut down for several days.
Actually, I think it's good to take a longer break. I finished 2:00pm on Friday and won't go back till Jan 2nd, which will probably be just long enough for me to get rid of the Christmas Cold I got last week. Hurrah!
Actually, I think it's good to take a longer break. I finished 2:00pm on Friday and won't go back till Jan 2nd, which will probably be just long enough for me to get rid of the Christmas Cold I got last week. Hurrah!
Dec 22nd, 2007, 03:37 PM
#20
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"England" isn't a "nation".
no but is it a country?
Gordon Brown on PM's Question Hour recently explicity referred to Wales, England and Scotland as countries - the country of Scotland
is a country a nation?
you tell me
no but is it a country?
Gordon Brown on PM's Question Hour recently explicity referred to Wales, England and Scotland as countries - the country of Scotland
is a country a nation?
you tell me
