Daniel_Williams

**St. Alban's**

As a child, I had mentioned, I had enjoyed the field trips I had taken to St. Alban's or Verulamiam as the town was called under Roman Britain. It was really here that my interest in the ancient Romans was born, so I wanted to re-visit just once more, so see if I The High Street area is lovely, and enjoyed seeing the old clock tower and abbey here as well. As seemed so prevalent in other British towns I'd visited so far, passageways twisted and went between buildings in an often surprising, pleasing manner.

I might mention at this point that one thing I still am processing, is that it seemed every town, even towns I hadn't heard much of like Newport on the Isle of Wight, had a buzzing pedestrian-friendly center, built more on a human scale. I truly wish that North American towns (there are exceptions of course) would be this way more, but I'm not holding my breath. I also loved that I had yet throughout all my sojourns in Southern England to see a town where I did not find a charming spot to sit and have tea & scones . St. Alban's was no exception...

So, in St. Alban's, I went to Verulamiam Park, an extensive green-space where I saw a wide variety of unfamiliar water fowl in the lakes and one can observe the free, well-preserved hypocaust and mosaic of a villa dating from Roman times. The Verulamiam Museum is worth a look-see, pleasing for those interested in more detail on Roman Britain. I often thought of Roman times as being "an occupation", but it seemed the Catevellauni people who lived in Verulamiam actually seemed to embrace the Roman presence quite peacefully. Nevertheless, for some reason I find myself drawn to Queen Boudicca of the nearby Iceni tribe who led a revolt around A.D. 60 or so, sacking Verulamiam, Londinium and Camulodunum (she probably was not amused that the Verulamians accepted Roman law so readily). She is portrayed in paintings as this kind of wild, brutal warrior in Celtic wear with wild hair, but really, she must have elicited great respect and admiration out of her fellow citizens to have launched such a successful rebellion against such a powerful empire. Undoubtedly, a woman of great bravery and know-how, in a way a true English queen that fought to keep the land for the English.

The Roman Theater for 3pound50 I felt was more than I wanted to pay for what is mostly ruins, but what remains does give a good sense of the appearance of the Verulamian arena must have looked like. I was glad here (yet again ) for the views of the English countryside surrounding... the sounds of sheep bleating pervaded the air as I walked through the theater area.

St. Alban's is lovely. While the Ancient Roman remnants might seem sparser/disappointing to someone who has just come from Bath, I felt pleased in part to relive memories, but also for the lovely setting. In St. Alban's, one gets a sense of a Roman British town that was not the exception that Aquae Sulis (Bath) was due to its hot springs... but rather a more typical (if somewhat favoured by the Romans) town of Roman Britain.

**Brighton next**

Linda_C

What a wonderful report! It brought back many things I remember, and I'm ready to hear more. I agree about Winchester and Salisbury, having done both on one trip years ago. It was good to hear you recommend the Roman Baths audio guide. Some people dislike such things, but that one is truly superior. (Sorry about the camera, though.) You mentioned London's St. Martin's in the Field for the Crypt and lunch; check in advance or just stop by in the afternoon and you may well be able to attend free rehearsals of an upcoming concert in the sanctuary.

thursdaysd

What a lovely report! I just discovered if and read it straight through. I'll have to read the QM one too, every time I fly the Atlantic I think about sailing instead!

I grew up in England (not that far from St. Albans), and we holidayed on the Isle of Wight (in the 60s) several years in a row, staying near the Needles. I went back in the 80s and thought it had changed a lot - for the worse! Much more touristy and crowded. Alum Bay (colored sands) especially seemed to be overrun and overdeveloped. BTW, did you skip the castle?

Your descriptions of the towns and countryside really bring England back to life for me. I, too, have thought about living there again, but although I have a UK passport, my pension is paid in feeble, no-COLA, dollars... The town I've been thinking about is Wells, near Bath, which I'd recommend checking out if you go back.

I'm another fan of Hampstead. For those who don't have a cousin's flat available, this place is worth checking out: www.lagaffe.co.uk . And you shouldn't miss Kenwood House and its pictures if you're in the area. I like the cemeteries, too.

If you want a more "British" museum in London, try the Museum of London. Although my favorite London museum is the V&A.

Daniel_Williams

Flanneruk-- Thank you for seeing the cathedrals as I do. It's reassuring to hear an echo of one's point of view. When we were in London, my friend was trying to curry sympathy to London-based friends about how tedious it was that I was "going on" about (I'd prefer to say I "commented twice or so on my appreciation of", but I'll state things from his point of view) the "differences" between said cathedrals.

yk--That "old Hampstead Village" walk sounds like a great idea!

jsmith, tod--Thanks for the suggestions for possible future visits to Hampshire/IoW!

thursdaysd-- The Needles are somewhere I want to go next time! As tod agreed, a day trip WAS too short!

309pg, margo_oz, Linda_C -- Thank you for stating your enjoyment of the post . It keeps me posting! It's nice that you too thought that Bath audio tour was exceptional... even though it was just a black walkie-talkie-shaped thing, strangely enough the voices I felt added a human (!) touch to my visit.

janisj-- Thanks for enjoying and for your candour during the planning months and I do see what you meant about those other towns!

VirginiaC-- Have fun deciding on whether to use Southampton as a base! My opinions (and my friend's ) are pretty well stated here but if you want additional points of view, read this post I started a few months back: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...after-boat.cfm

sharona

Oh my. What a wonderful report. Time to plan a visit, I think.

Daniel_Williams

**Final day. Brighton**

I caught the approximately 50-minute train around 11am southbound to Brighton from (the-crowded-chaotic-insanity-that-is) Victoria Station. The immediate visual walking out of Brighton's train station is one of busy-ness, and an unexceptional concrete High Street (my first view of S'hampton was far more inspiring!) as one moves south toward the waterfront.

But it was not long before Brighton started to reveal its soul... as I turned left toward the "North Laines", my impression was decidedly becoming rosier as I saw some cozy restaurants and knick-knackery of the narrow, highly-peopled streets. Reaching a parkspace by the Royal Pavilion and Brighton Dome and I was definitively sold on Brighton's charm, as musicians jammed and a dreadlocked girl practiced tricks with a hula hoop a la Cirque du Soleil.

If you really want to get your anti-monarchist friends worked up to the point of frothing at the mouth like a rabid raccoon, I highly recommend a visit to the inside of King George IV's masterpiece, the Royal Pavilion. Especially while Prince of Wales and later Regent when dear papa George III went cuckoo, he commandeered this outrageously luxurious home. Despite the fact that dear George and most of his wealthy friends were too busy having lavish dinner parties to go to China, the so-called "chinoiserie" style was all the rage on the inside, for example, a chandelier such that four gold dragons decorated lanterns coming out of their mouth in the obscenely ornate banquet hall. I have to say that word again... obscene... the whole place truly is... obscene... even a devoted monarchist I hope would have a bit of sympathy for those poor sucker 18th century taxpayers. Truly Prince of Wales George IV's vision, some at the time were tut-tutting its excessiveness, and English traditionalists were unamused finding the Asian-influence on the outside and in as being ridiculous (I however WAS amused at one of the scoffers who said, "like four turnips were placed upside down on top of the building").

This said, the decorations, furniture, china, you-name-it, everything is undoubtedly exquisite, and of course in the finest taste... for those of you who love admiring wealth, this is the Regency at its height. And I'll say, it is a TRULY beautiful home, and again, I will recommend the audio tour to get a more well-rounded of all that you see.

Next I walked to Brighton Pier, I enjoyed sitting out on a deck chair, the sun stroking my face, looking toward the beautiful water and stony beach, watching the crowd, peering over toward the beautiful white Regency-style architecture on the streets by the water, thinking "what bliss"... until a fellow came over "2 pounds to sit on the deck chair"... And here I was thinking how nice, how civilized it was that the City of Brighton provided deck chairs for its citizenry to enjoy the beach and water... LOL can we say "o wa ta foo lye am". Thank goodness he let me get away with a "sorry, I didn't realize...I won't sit here then!". Loved sitting on that chair, but not for $4 I don't!

My final hurrah in Brighton was walking down that boardwalk that is Brighton Pier... brought back more happy memories of my childhood in England. Those games where you'd drop 2 pence in to try to knock out more 2 pence coins, the House of Horror, the rides like the flume you'd pay for with tokens... I'd almost forgotten how much fun I'd had at these British boardwalk-type places. There may be exceptions in the US & Canada, but in the US/Canada most of the places I know of, for an amusement park, one pays an exorbitant admission for entry... which ropes one into spending a whole day at the park to feel like one is getting one's money's worth (which ropes one into eating lunch IN the park itself). I preferred this Brighton-Pier-like-concept, where one could if one wanted to, only buy the tokens necessary to say, enter the House of Horror, take a ride on the flume, or hit one's colleague with a bumper car during one's lunch break and not make it a full day at an amusement park. I also liked that I could just admire people screaming on rides, watch the water lap the legs of the pier (with the lovely white Regency Brighton architecture as always as backdrop), while paying absolutely nothing!

Brighton, you have a fun energy and thanks for entertaining me this past July 23rd!

**Final words and QM2 post to come**

flanneruk

Daniel:

First, I'd dump your chum. There's no reason why he should share your interest in cathedrals - but that phrase "going on about" is a real warning sign. Dismissing friends' interests (even if they include morris dancing or train spotting) is tantamount to dismissing them, IMHO.

A couple of historical notes:

Medieval wallpaintings. Very rarely are they frescoes in England: there are a few, and there MIGHT be some in Winchester Cathedral (though my notes say not, it's the kind of place that would have had a budget that ran to them and I might have taken the notes down wrong), but certainly not in minor Salisbury churches. A fresco results from paint being applied to wet (ie fresh, or fresco in Italian)plaster: the pigment and the plaster bond, giving great permanence. It's cheaper, and takes less skill, to paint onto dry (secco) plaster, and just about all are wallpaintings are seccoes. Usually lasted only a few centuries: in England's case roughly 6% of medieval churches have some visible medieval wall paintings - painted over by the religious extremists who hijacked our government in the 16th century, and therefore preserved (the whitewash actually protected them) a lot longer than they'd have survived otherwise. Bet the vandals are turning in their graves, tee hee.

Inflation: we know about ancient inflation by looking at prices: it's what historians are there for. It was caused mainly by Roman governments running out of cash to pay for the army: they debased the coinage (we know that by assaying coins) so that by AD 350 there was about (off the top of my head) a tenth the amount of silver in a given coin there'd been around the year 0

Boudicca. The only thing she was fighting for was for her daughters' right to rule over "their" bit of East Anglia. There was no such thing as "the English" to fight for, and her commitment to the waves of continentals who'd settled here before the Romans turned up was less than zilch. She showed no discrimination, when she slaughtered most of the population of London, Colchester and St Albans, between the native-born, Romans and those who'd moved here because of the Romans. Closest historical parallel was Pol Pot (she clearly just hated cities), except she lacked his military skill (her armies vastly outnumbered the Romans, but still lost to them).

True we've only got the Romans' word for all that (though the archaeology shows great destruction in the cities). But there's not a scrap of evidence she was a nationalist - or that anyone at the time would have known what the point of nationalism was.

For most people, after all, these foreign conquerors meant reliable wine imports, higher prices for our copper, furs and wool, relatively honest government - and baths. That's why the English have never understood foreigners getting upset about English occupation.

stokebailey

Thanks, Daniel (fun to read) and flanner(informative).

Daniel_Williams

Flanneruk--

Firstly, thanks for the clarifications, inflation and seccoes vs. frescoes . I'll be sure to just say "wall paintings" in future whenever I'm not sure .

I see your words about Queen Boudicca and I downgrade my words "drawn toward" her to "curious about" her . First I'd heard of her was the few blurbles about her at the Verulamiam Museum and at Bath, so I appreciate your more informed insight and knowledge of the Roman perspective of the Boudiccan revolt. I also agree that my stating "fighting for 'England'" was inappropriate (to better phrase it, I think I wondered if she were more in her eyes fighting for the "peoples of her land", at least how she saw it?).

In coming to some of my ramblings, my understanding from what I read is that it was speculated that those who accepted Roman rule (such as citizens of Verulamiam) such as the Catuvellauni may have been seen as "in league" with the Romans (and therefore in her warriors' eyes, to be equally punished).

Her story (and side of the story, remembering, as you say, that we're getting the point of view only of the Romans from tablets) still piques my curiosity though...after all the revolt was not just her but many loyal followers, so for some reason she commanded respect at least among those. I think she grabbed my attention too because it's not often you hear of a woman too from ancient times as a head of an army. Maybe I'm putting my own perspective into it, but if brutal and selfish were her only qualities, it seems to me unlikely that so many of her warriors would have laid down their lives for her; these warriors must have felt on some level their cause was just.

Then again, it could be that they ultimately were just looting and greedy...covetous of Roman wealth and power? Like I said (and as you see given all my speculations on the whys), the story definitely does pique my curiosity and I've enjoyed your thoughts on it.

flanneruk

Boudicca again:

We don't rely on tablets for information about Boudicca. By an odd coincidence, for her rebellion we come closer to having real reportage by contemporaries than almost any event outside Rome in the Roman era.

One of the generals under Suetonius Paulinus (the bloke who eventually smashed Boudicca) was called Agricola, and found himself repeatedly posted to Britain, ending up as governor. His daughter Julia married a writer (you can imagine how THAT went down with a career soldier) called Tacitus, who wrote a gloriously laconic and cynical history of Rome called the Annals (available in the Penguin translation from most decent libraries and from Amazon - an appropriate place to buy books about the lady).

He also wrote 'Agricola', his father in law's life story (a bit trickier to find sometimes). Between them, the Annals and Agricola give Boudicca's revolt far more detailed coverage than any other trivial bit of bother on the far reaches of the Empire ever managed to get. For a rain-sodden island of zero economic value, the Romans made an extraordinary amount of fuss about conquering "Britain" - though actually it was just a bit of England.

Worth reading.

Cholmondley_Warner

Very rarely are they frescoes in England: there are a few, and there MIGHT be some in Winchester Cathedral >>>

There are.

You really have to peer at them. Then you can make 'em out. Don't go on the basis of them.

They're on the left hand side of the Apse. So they are.



ps Whae did Boadicea become Boudicca?

flanneruk

1. No-one's disputing that there are wall paintings in Winchester Cathedral - and not just in the LH of the Apse (there are medieval paintings in the Holy Sepulchre Chapel, the Guardian's Chapel, and the south transept. And modern copies of defaced paintings in the Lady Chapel). The question is whether they're frescoes or seccoes. My notes imply they're seccoes, and some certainly are.

2. She was Boudicca the day Suetonius Paulinus first wrote to his boss saying he was having a bit of bother with the local fuzzy-wuzzies. We've no idea what she was called in Icenic (or what the Iceni spoke) - but she's always been Boudicca in Latin.

One Tacitus manuscript got miscopied (the monks were always doing that kind of thing. CW doubtless ignored all that tiny text at the bottom of the pages of Virgil he was always copying lines out of after school. It's called apparatus criticus and it lists all the different variations on the text every inept monk has ever accidentally invented). The dozy prat miswrote 'Boadicea', and the English - but no-one else - started using Boadicea. from about the 15th century.

Personally I think we should keep Boadicea (why should some bloody Roman tell us what to call an Englishwoman, even if that probably is what the lady called herself?). But the OP said Boudicca and I was being enough of a pedant already.

Daniel_Williams

For any interested, in case you don't go to the cruise channel, here's my QM2 report.

http://www.fodors.com/community/crui...nsatlantic.cfm

You know, it's funny... I recollect learning about some Boadicea in school (practically ancient times now, the early 80s, and I probably was too busy hoping recess would come to actually remember anything of substance other than the name) during the classes on Ancient Rome, while the name Boudicca, when I read the plaques at the Verulamiam Museum and Bath, was entirely new to me.

texasbookworm

Great read, Daniel! This time last year I was recounting my 2 weeks in London for a Forum TR, and reading yours (although we didn't cross lots of the same ground) was a wonderful reminder of the joys of our travel there. You do have a way with words and I'll bet that transfers to some great chemistry classes!

Daniel_Williams

** Final thoughts**

Oh England, I shall miss the charm and vibrant nature of many of your towns, the incredible frequency and scope of your public transit, the millennia of continuous history that you give to your people, the accessibility and beauty of countryside within a short walk your busy Hampshire and Wiltshire town centers. As it is, my life is not with you, but thanks for all those lovely visuals I have to keep with me and the reminders of my childhood.

This trip was the first time I'd been to England since I moved to Montreal some 15 years ago. Sitting now back in my humble home in the Plateau district of Montreal, I was struck upon arrival by how North American and modern this city now looks. After the busy-ness of England, Montreal (which I moved to many years ago because in part because I liked how vibrant and European-like it seemed to me at the time!) seems incredibly quiet. I thought I might feel a sense of let-down returning... seeing some characterless suburbs coming into the city and waiting 8 minutes for the metro, I did momentarily be-moan my return. But no, my beloved neighbourhood the Plateau still seduces me... it seems somehow kind of graceful in its relative quietness... as the tranquil bike riders go by with their summer dresses... I do still love it here, but it really does feel worlds away from the England I left a week ago.

Happy travels Daniel

Gordon_R

Intersting and enjoyable post. BTW I've never seen Southampton abbreviated to S'Hampton before. The local abbreviation is "Soton" for some reason.

Josser

Well as the fierce lady was around before the Angles arrived, she was a Briton, not English.
BTW, when did the daft custom start of calling ancient Britons Celts?

Daniel_Williams

Thanks Gordon_R and texasbookworm for your words.

Josser: "Celtic" wear= my bad, just me that's daft, I suspect it's not custom

Sorry about that, like many in other corners of the world, I'm not exceptionally well-versed in ancient British history ... I was just trying to describe her outfit with what incorrectly seemed the most appropriate words I could find.

Thank you for the correction Would "Britonic" wear be using the appropriate adjective and understood?

Daniel

PS If I were to ever have a son, I would definitely want to name him Suetonius Paulinus...what a seriously cool name! ;-)

willit

In my family's hometown, Southampton is normally abbreviated to Scumton or just plain Scum.

Among residents of Southampton, the written abbreviation is normally Soton. The University address is soton.ac.uk

Josser

I wasn't calling you daft.
It's just that recently, there is a fashion to call the early inhabitants of these islands "Celts".
I suspect that some inhabitants of the "Celtic Fringes" have a silly prejudice about being Britond.
When I were a lad, they were called Ancient Britons as in the good old song.

To the tune of Men of Harlech
Anon.

What's the use of wearing braces
Hats and spats and boots with laces
All the things you buy in places
Down on Brompton Road
What's the use of shirts of cotton
Studs that always get forgotten
These affairs are simply rotten
Better far is woad!

Woad's the stuff to showmen
Woad to scare your foemen
Boil it to a brilliant blue
And rub it on your back and your abdomen.
Ancient Britons never hit on
Anything as good as woad to fit on
Knees or neck or where you sit on
Tailors you be blowed!

Romans came across the channel
All dressed up in tin and flannel
Half a pint of woad per man'll
Dress us more than these
Saxons you can waste your stitches
Building beds for bugs in britches
We have woad to clothe us which is
Not a nest for fleas!

Romans keep your armours
Saxons your pyjamas
Hairy coat were made for goats
Gorillas, yaks, retriever dogs and llamas
Tramp up Snowdon with your woad on
Nevermind if we get rained or snowed on
Never want a button sewed on
Go it, Ancient B's!