montalvomom

This will be my 2nd trip to Italy (been to Venice, Rome, Florence and south)
Can you check this itinerary:
Fly to and from Milan
1 night Milan
2 nights Dolmites (Bolzano, Verona or Castelrotto?)
3 nights Bologna ( day trips to Parma, Ravenna, Ferrara.?)
1 night Siena
1 night Assisi
3 nights in Cinque Terra
2 nights Torino
4 nights Lakes- Como, Maggiore
Leave Milan
I will like to use trains as much as possible;
I also like wines, any suggestions for any of these areas?
Should I change days spent and/or sequence of towns?

stevewith

Which weeks of the year are you traveling? You seem to want to spend the majority of your time in scenic destinations, so hopefully you are going at a time of year when the chances of good weather are very hight.

Verona and Bolzano are only "gateways" to the Dolomiti. You must travel further than even Castelrotto to see the beautiful views. Public buses are slow and infrequent, but you can take an organized tour to see some peaks. Personally, I would prefer to spend 3 nights in the Dolomiti rather than le Cinque Terre, especially since it is at the beginning of your trip.

Even if you spend 3 nights in Bologna, you don't have time for 3 day trips. It will take you a long time to reach Bologna from the Dolomiti.

In general, you are trying to cover an awful lot of geography, using public transportation that doesn't have easy connections. For instance, to go from Assisi to le Cinque Terre will take you about 5 hours. Likewise, it will take you another 5 hours to get to Torino.

I can't tell from your itinerary what is most important to you, so I can't make suggestions about rearranging your trip. Also, without knowing what time of year you are planning to go, i don't know if it might make sense to do your trip in some other order.

Of course all the places you have picked are very interesting, but you are also zooming past some equally wonderful places, so I don't know why you have picked seeing Bologna over seeing Mantova, or visiting Padova and Verona. Why Siena instead of Lucca?

I would only do a trip like yours if I had all my life wanted to see something special in each of these towns -- like, I wanted to see the floor of the cathedral in Sienna, or the mosaics in Ravenna, or the movie museum in Torino. Then I wouldn't mind traveling so much to spend just a night or two here and there. (But I wouldn't bother going to the Dolomiti for 1 day.)

If you have picked these famous places without knowing why other people consider them worth seeing, I don't think you will be happy racing all around like this.

What did you like best from your last trip to Italy? The Roman ruins or the great frescoes or the Amalfi?

Dukey1

Forget Verona as was mentioned above if you want mountain views...not even close.

Lucca vs. Siena...depends on what you want to see...IMO the cathedral alone in Siena is worth a visit but whatever floats your boat.

stevewith

Dukey,

I am not suggesting that the OP choose Lucca over Siena. I'm sure everybody has opinions about the cathedral in Siena (John Ruskin was quite funny in his put downs of it), but like you said, whatever floats your boat.

The point is to try to find out what floats the OP's boat. She probably doesn't want to take your trip. She probably wants to take her own. Which may have Siena as her top priority -- but who can tell from looking at what little she posted other than a list of Italian places?

Jean

Yes, this is your trip, but for me 8-9 destinations in 17-18 days is too much moving around.

If you're going to a place primarily to see a particular thing, make sure it's open on the day/hours you're there. If your reason for staying multiple nights in the Cinque Terre is to hike several of the trails, make sure those trails are open.

montalvomom

Thank you for taking the time to answer!
Oh boy, I am so overwhelmed! Mostly because my husband and I will be leaving on Sept 18th and I still don't know where... he is not a planner and I like to plan tooooo much! This is our 30th anniversary and 3 yrs ago when we went to Italy, we did the major cities and spent the rest on the southern part- we used train and also rented a car and did not get lost, so if we have to, he is willing to drive. We were thinking we could visit the northern part and experience some diversity with the frontiers of Switzerland, France or Austria. We love wine and food and of course the cultural sights. At this point, I am willing to cut the traveling time between distances if needed- rather enjoy the view sitting at a park with a cup of coffee than being lost in a car.
So, here we are again, what would you suggest?

annhig

Hi montalvomom,

congrats on your 30th anniversary - september would be a great time for this trip, but along with the others, I think that you could trim a bit [ok, quite a lot] and have a better time.

first of all - decisions. car or train? it makes quite a difference. And what time of day do you arrive? if you're coming from the US I'm going to assume its in the morning giving you the rest of the day to get to your first destination [I suggest putting Milan at the end so that you're in the right place for flying home, not at the start]

if you are fixed on the CT, I'd suggest going there straight from milan so I'd do something like this:

Day 1 arrive Milan. Train to CT. stay 3 nights.
Day 4 - train to Siena - stay 2 nights.
Day 5 - train to Assisi [do you have an overwhelming reason to go here? - could be dropped]
Day 6 - train to Bologna - 3 nights
Day 9 - pick up car - drive up into mountains - tour Dolomites and lakes. no need to book, IMO]
Day 17 - drive to milan. stay night.
Day 18 - fly home.

That putts all your bookable train places at the beginning and gives you the flexibility at the end. want to stay an extra night in Bologna? no porblem. Want longer in the mountains - fine.

just so long as you get yourselves back to Milan for night 17, you're ok.

bobthenavigator

Your entire trip could be a nice loop of Northern Italy but you have 2 outliers in centro Italy, Siena and Assisi----I would drop those.

That still leaves you with 6 primary destinations in 18 days---that makes more sense. You will need a car for the Dolomites. So, I see a loop in the opposite direction.

Land MXP---train to Lago Maggiore--4
Train to Torino---3
Train to CT---3
Train to Bologna--3
Get car---drive to Dolomites base[Castelrotto or Ortisei]-3
Drive to Milan via Verona---drop car---2

That is not perfect but better.

kybourbon

>>>Day 5 - train to Assisi [do you have an overwhelming reason to go here? - could be dropped]<<<

You could also take the Sena bus (Siena/Assisi), but only 1 departure most days at about 5pm. Travel time is under 2 hours.

I think I would start north for weather purposes since your travel is in late September.

stevewith

Now for something completely different:

If you are traveling in the middle of September, and you are willing to rent a car, and you are looking forward to life in a cafe, and you would like to experience some of the diversity of life with the frontiers (wonderful idea!), then I suggest:

Arrive in Milan, go directly to Verona for a couple of nights -- rent car, visit Dolomiti for a few days -- finally drive to Bassano del Grappa for lunch but stay in Asolo a night or two -- drop off car in Padova --- spend some nights -- fly home from Milan

If you get to Italy or can see the day before you leave that weather in the Dolomiti is going to be rainy and view-obscuring, then

Arrive in Milan, go directly to Verona for a couple of nights -- train to Bologna, do various day trips by train -- go to Padova -- spend some nights -- fly home from Milan

My problem with some of the above plans is Lago Maggiore has so little other gardens to offer culturally, which are fading by September, and has truly indifferent food and wine. Plus, Lago Maggiore is just not as pretty as Lago di Como, so if you are going to a lake, make it the prettiest.

I think if you want to see the Dolomiti, you need to get there first for weather reasons. So I could see you doing annhig's plan in reverse, but like her, I would suggest that unless you have an overwhelming need to see Assisi or Siena, that you drop it. Go to Mantova or Padova instead.

stevewith

PS: If you really wanted to see Lago di Como, then you could tack it on to the end of either of proposed itineraries instead of Padova. I would go by car at that time of year, and drop it off at Milan airport.

stevewith

One last thought:

If you really would rather see Lago di Como than the Dolomiti, then arrive in Milan, take a car transfer directly to Lago di Como. Leaving Lago di Como, you need to go back through Milan to catch other trains, so up to you at that point if you would rather see Torino or Le Cinque Terre or head to Bologna. But certain destinations -- like le Cinque Terre or Assisi or Siena -- are like painting yourself into a corner when it comes to getting there and back on to someplace else if you need to get to a northern airport to fly home.

montalvomom

Thank you again! I am starting to feel better... there is a light (and a plan) at the end of this trip!
How is the drive to the Dolomiti? What about wine/wineries- any suggestions for areas? Should I include Piedmont area- 2 days? (I still have 1 day left for Milan) If yes to Piedmont, any recommendations and days there? Should I stay in Lake Como 4 days if I drop Lake Maggiore? Im dropping Assisi and Sienna as you recommend.

stevewith

The roads in the Dolomiti are engineering marvels, but this is true mountain driving in many places, over narrow and vertiginous mountain passes. It takes some stamina, and you don't want to plan a trip in the region around the idea you'll be driving long distances twice a day. In addition, the scenery is absolutely stunning, gasp-worthy, and you will want to stop the car and look at it. (There are plenty of turn outs).

Wineries in Italy almost always require appointments or going with a group tour. The wineries are mainly interested in showing their wineries to people interested in making purchases of their wine. If you don't know much about wine, or Italian wine in particular, but want to know more, it usually better to eat at good restaurants with good wine lists and drink the local wine with the local food, because that is what wine in Italy is fundamentally about -- a match to food.

If you go to the Piemonte, it is best to have a car if the reason you are going is to be in wine country. To visit Torino, you can easily go by train. For me, 2 days in wine country would be a bit pointless. Two days in Torino would be fun, but painfully short for me, but I happen to really like museum going. If you are going to the Dolomiti, you are adding a lot of extra miles heading over to the western part of Italy. There is lovely wine around Verona.

How long you stay in Lago di Como depends on what you want to do, and where it comes in your trip. Lago di Como is a scenic relaxation spot, and many people never leave their terrace with a view. They just relax. It's gorgeous! Others like to spend a day or two visiting the area's elaborate gardens (kind of tapped out in September) and/or shopping, others like to spend a day or two hiking in the higher elevations.

Right now, it looks like you have the outlines of a trip plan in your head, but it is hard to tell what it is. Maybe if you shared it, which days you are thinking of spending where, people could help you tweak it logistically.

annhig

I was putting CT at the front and the Dolomites at the end of the trip to "front load" the part best done by train, but Steve and Bob are right of course - better to put the Dolomites at the beginning of the trip because of weather.

to cut down on the driving and get your "italian feet" before you pick up a car, you could get the train to Verona from Milan, stay a couple of nights there, then collect the car and head north.

a "round" trip of Verona, the Dolomites, and Lake Como would make a terrific trip.

tuscanlifeedit

I like annhig's last suggestion of a round trip that included Verona, the Dolomites and Lake Como.

From Verona, you can day trips to several interesting places, as different as Padua or Lake Garda.

We are getting ready for our own September trip to Northern Italy. I will describe it, just to see if our ideas add at all to yours.

We are flying in and out of Venice.

From Venice we train directly to Verona, staying a few nights.

From Verona, we are driving to Riva del Garda for a few nights.

From Riva to the Dolomites, to the town of La Villa for a few nights.

From La Villa, which we chose because it puts us in a little better position for our departure to Venice, we head to Venice.

This is a fast moving trip for us. You have more time, but we chose these destinations because of the short distances between them.

Jean

Figure out where you want to be on Aug. 15th which is a huge national holiday. Many cities and towns hold festivals, parades, fireworks, etc., and Siena holds its second palio of the summer on Aug. 16th. So, do you want to avoid the crowds or try to see/experience one of these events? Lodging for that weekend (Thurs.-Sun.) might be difficult to find in some places.

annhig

Jean - the OP's trip is in 2nd half of September - therefore Aug 15 worries do not apply.

montalvomom

After much reading and looking at the map and forums, the Itinerary has changed to:

Day 1: Arrive Milan @ 9am- Take train to Verona and rent car to drive to Ortisei
Day 2-4: Ortisei (Day trips Castlerotto, Bolzano)
Day 5: Drive to Trento (spend 1/2 day) and drive to Verona to return car rental; Sleep there
Day 6-8: Verona (day trips to Mantova, Lake Garda?)
Day 9: Leave Verona- Train to Milan and connect with train to La Spezia Centrale to Vernazza to sleep in.
Day 10 + 11: CT (day trips to sta Margarita Lugure and Sestri)
Day 12: Train from La Spezia to Genoa to Turin; Rent car in Turin and drive to Asti or Alba for hotel/B&B
Day 13-15: Piedmont Area Daytrips: Barolo, Alba, Asti (depending where lodging is)
Day 16: Drive to Torino, Shroud of Turin; return car rental and take train to Milan to Como Lake (Varenna)
Day 17- 19-Varenna, Bellagio (any other suggestions?)
Day 20: Take train to Milan
Day 21: Milan
Day 22: Depart to California

I still have 1 day extra- where should I spend it?
thanks for your feedback!

stevewith

Spend the extra day in the Dolomiti or in Torino.

If you are going to drive your first day, you might as well rent the car at the airport. By the time you arrive in Verona, most car rental offices will be closing.

On the other hand, if you want to spend half a day in Trento and don't want to keep the car once you are in Verona, you might as well drop off the car in Trento.

If you want to see the most scenic parts of Lago di Garda, it would be better to do it while you have the car and are driving from the Dolomiti to Verona.

Personally, I would see the sites you want to see this way:

Arrive in Milan, take trains to Trento, spend the night in Trento.

Next morning, see Trento, rent car, head out to Dolomiti base, stay for several days.

Leaving the Dolomiti, take a scenic drive down the eastern shore of Lago di Garda, stay in vicinity of Verona/Mantova for several days. See those towns as day trips.

Drive to le Cinque Terre for several nights. (Get a place with parking.)

Drive to Piemonte, and stay in the vicinity of Alba

Drive to Torino, drop off car (personally I would see the movie museum rather than the shroud), have lunch, take train to Varenna by sunset.

Unless there is something you very much want to see in Milan, I suggest you just stay on the lake until it is time to go to the airport. A driver will cost you about 100e. If there is something you very much want to see in Milan, consider spending the night in Torino and the next day taking the train to Milan, stowing your luggage in the station, seeing what you want to see, then proceeding on to Lago di Como and remaining there until you need to go to the airport.