Where to stay Germany St. Goar/Bacharach/Bernkastel
 

This summer we will travel to Frankfurt on June 26 and then head to the middle Rhine, then into the Berner Oberland in Switzerland, ending up in Salzburg and Vienna. We will be in Salzburg for three nights starting July 5th, then Vienna for three nights starting the 8th. We fly out of Vienna on July 11. We will have a rental car.
Can anyone help with an itinerary that is reasonable with suggestions on where to go and stay? We would like to start with St. Goar or Bacharach for one night, then onto Bernkastel or Bellstein for a night and a visit to Burg Eltz. We are considering Kandersteg in Switzerland for a few days, or Grindelwald. Montreux looks interesting, as well. We need suggestions for where to stay between Bernkastel and Switzerland. Also need a suggestion for how to break up the trip between Switzerland and Salzburg. We are considering a stop for a night (or two) in Mittenwald as my 16 yr. old plays the violin.

This is my first post so I hope I did not ask too many questions!

No Bud or Shore in your name so I'll be nice. :)

We are doing a very similar trip in late May but traveling exclusively by train.

Rather than change lodging in the Rhein area, centrally locate along the Rhein (or Mosel) and commute to the other area by day trips, these places should be easily accessible by car. Refer to www.viamichelin.com for driving times and directions. We're staying in Bacharach and taking the train to Cochem and Moselkern (Burg Eltz) but are staying 3 nights. ViaMichelin says a trip from bacharach to Bernkastel is just under an hour, Burg Eltz in about the same time from Bacharach. Maybe Cochem is more centrally located for your trip?

Then heading to the BO in Switzerland via a 7 hour train ride, the car trip will probably be shorter so no big deal there, except the car might be useless in that ares. ViaMichelin says you can get there in around 5 hours from Bacharach. Look into Lauterbrunnen as a base. An overnight between the Rhein/Mosel shouldn't be necessary.

After 3 more nights there, we're headed to Salzburg (Berchtesgaden) on an 11-hour train journey, staying for 4 nights. Again, your auto route should be slightly quicker. Mittenwald would be an nice stop over but may not need an overnight. Again, referring to ViaMichelin,its about 5 hours from Lauterbrunnen, Salzburg is another 2.5 hours further.

There, wasn't I nice? Hope I helped, this crowd at Fodors will have much better and more accurate information than I so check back often, they are a Great Group. They have helped me so much I can never repay their kindness.

MvK

Hi odyssey, you have a fabulous trip planned, to many of my favorite places. I live in Stuttgart so am pretty familiar with the area you are looking at. If you only have two nights to spend between the Mosel and the Rhein, I might suggest choosing one or the other. I personally am a big Mosel fan, and especially in the summer I think it will be less crowded than the Rhein. Cochem would be a good place to stay as it is convenient to Burg Eltz. Beilstein is much smaller but a gorgeous little village. We stayed at the Hotel Haus Lippmann in Beilstein last fall and will probably look for a place in Cochem for our next visit. You could spend your second night in Trier at the south end of the valley and see the Roman ruins there. We liked the Hotel Roemischer Kaiser in Trier.

Going from the Mosel to Kandersteg in one day is quite a long haul. I think you are looking at upwards of 7 hours, and that is with NO traffic jams on the Autobahn! You might consider an overnight near Stuttgart (Bad Wimpfen, a small village high above the Neckar River just to the north, or Tuebingen, a college town just to the south, or you could go into France and stop in Strasbourg, or perhaps somewhere in the Black Forest...)

Whoops, I hit post by accident.

That should be Haus Lipmann with one "p".

A car is definitely not useless in the Berner Oberland. We have done all of our traveling there by car and really enjoyed it. My family and friends have stayed in Kandersteg at the Hotel Adler several times and we were just there in October for two nights. We think it makes for a great base. Here's a link to my trip report (see Days 1-3):

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34972490

Looking at your dates now, it seems like you have more time than I originally thought. You might have time to do the Rhein and the Mosel if you wanted to. A possible itinerary that would allow you to spend a minimum of 2 nights in each spot could look something like this:

26-27 - St. Goar
28-29 - Mosel (Cochem, Beilstein or Trier)
30-1 - Black Forest or Stuttgart area
2-4 - Kandersteg
5-7 - Salzburg
8-10 - Vienna

Hope that helps!

i would stay one night each river so you can do day trips along THAT river and then on to your other destinations.

frankly, i could have spent several more nights between the two.. as now n spring you will have all the wineries and walking routes at their highest interest point as far as weather is concerned. ( we went in february!)

We did a trip in germany in May 2006. We spent two night in Bacharach and 5 in Cochem (visiting a lot of places from Here: Trier, Luxembourg, Koblenz, Burg Eltz, Belstein). We stayed at pensions and we liked them. in Cochem we had an apartment for 50 euro/ night on the pedestrian commercial od street - pension Albers , and in bacharach - pension Lettie.

i forgot to say that we had no car, we traveled by car - it was very easy. Frm Bacharach we took the boat to St. Goar, seeing also Lorelei Rock.

To all of you, thank you so much for your input. I have never visited these areas, so I am completely guessing on how much time to stay. I like your ideas of staying longer up in the Rhine/Mosel area. I had not considered this before. My husband wants to touch as many countries as possible, so the base camp idea with day trips to Luxembourg and France would make him a happy guy! I am trying to temper that with shorter drives and actually enjoying our visits.

Any preferences between St. Goar and Bacharach for lodging? They both seem equally appealing from what I've read.

How should I break up the trip between Kandersteg and Mittenwald?

This is what I am thinking:

26 St. Goar or Bacharach
27 St. Goaror Bacharach
28 Beilstein or Cochem
29 Beilstein or Cochem
30 Strasbourgor Black Forest
1 Kanderstegor Grindelwald (day trip to Neuchatel/Chateau de Chillon)
2 Kandersteg or Grindelwald (day trip to Saas Fee)
3 Kandersteg or Grindelwald (day trip to Stresa)
4 Travel east to ? Appenzell? Mittenwald?
5 Salzburg
6 Salzburg
7 Salzburg
8 Vienna
9 Vienna
10 Vienna
11 Vienna

Thanks again to everyone!

Kandersteg is better situated than Grindelwald for two of your daytrips (Saas Fee and Stresa) but do you know you will have to put your car on a train for carriage south through the Lötschberg tunnel?

http://tinyurl.com/2vdwjb

You could use the train for your trip to Stresa as an alternative.

Enzian, I am aware of the train connection to Stresa, but I was hoping we could just visit Stresa without the car. I haven't looked into it thoroughly as it was a recent suggestion from a friend. Could you tell me if this is even possible? I don't think the rental agency will allow the car to ride the train.

I also have not investigated Saas Fee yet- is that accessible by car? Both of these places are favorites of a friend. He has never given us bad advice, so I was relying on his suggestions once again.

Thanks for your help.

Good. I just wanted to be sure you knew about that train/tunnel thing. You can easily get to Stresa on the train (without taking your car). The best connection leaves Kandersteg at 10:07 am; you change once at Brig for the train south into Italy. Total travel time is about an hour and a half. Other trains take longer (over 2 hours) so this is the best. You can check the schedule at www.rail.ch (for English).

To get to Saas-Fee by car, you will still have to put your car on thae train through the tunnel. But I don't see why the rental company wouldn't allow that---it's part of the Swiss road system. You drive onto a flatcar, and people stay in their cars and ride through the tunnel. Saas-Fee is a car-free village; you park at the edge of town and there are electric busses to take you in. We haven't been there (yet) ourselves, but friends keep urging us to go there too. But I don't know if it's worth the hassle for a daytrip. There are a lot of nice things to do right around Kandersteg:

www.oeschinensee.ch

Or visit Bettmeralp (by train from Brig) and take a lift up to see Europe's largest glacier, the Aletschgletscher:

www.bettmeralp.ch

Enzian, thanks for the info and link. I looked at the connections- is 6 minutes sufficient? That seems very tight to me. I heard the Swiss were efficient, but wow!

The Oeschinensee does appeal to me. We are still so flexible. I wish we could do it all!

Six minutes is actually generous for Swiss trains. The rail website will show you the tracks--Gleis 4 to Gleis 6 is not far at all. But they're not right next to each other, so you'll have to take the ramp or stairs down to the little tunnel that runs under the tracks, and pop up an the next platform.

We've made connections with as little as three minutes with no problem. One time whe were coming into Brig from the east, heading to Kandersteg actually, and the train was running two minutes late. The conductor came through the car and advised us that we would have 3 minutes (instead of the planned 5) for our connection, just so we would be aware.

Gather your bags and move to the exit area of the train as it nears Brig, and get off as soon as it stops. (You may need to open the door yourselves). Follow the signs to the next track, and get on the waiting train. We've done this tens of times and never missed a train.

I just looked at your whole schedule. We will be in Germany/Switzerland the same 2 weeks, and actually will be in Kandersteg at the same time.

Since you will have a car, you could choose to stay at one of the charming hotels just outside of town. Landgasthof Ruedihaus comes highly recommended in Karen Brown's guides:

http://tinyurl.com/ymfw55

So does its partner hotel Hotel Doldenhorn, which is more modern:

http://www.doldenhorn-ruedihus.ch

We visited Reudihaus on a walk from town. They have a Ricola herb garden in front. The building is indeed very old. Everyone seemed very hospitable, even tho' we werent' guests there.

If you need something less expensive, Hotel Adler has apartments suitable for families, as well as hotel rooms. There is a pool in the basement.

www.chalethotel.ch

Wherever you stay, be sure and ride the chairlift up and have lunch at the Hotel Oeschinensee, and walk around to see the lake.

odyssey4,

Glad to see you've added time to the Rhein/Mosel.

I still suggest you centrally locate in Cochem rather than pull-out of Bacharach/St. Goar just to move to Beilstein/Cochem, you'll lose more time in the move than it is worth. For an example using extremes:

Cochem-Trier: 0:50 to 1:00
Cochem-St. Goar: 0:55 to 1:10

So that really puts you in the middle of the action and no lodging changes. You could possibly get a better rate for lodging. They like to keep you for 3+ days so offer discounts for additional time. Moving just doesn't make sense in this area, you'll lose 1/2 day that couold be spent tasting wine or hiking through the woods to Burg Eltz from Moselkern. Check-out http://www.bensbauernhof.com for some good recommendations in the area and a walking guide to Burg Eltz.

MvK

Envian and Mark,
Your recommendations are great. The pool at the Hotel Adler seems appealing. I also appreciate the suggestion to stay in one place at the start of our trip. Can you recommend a specific hotel near Burg Eltz? I don't think I saw one on Ben's site, but I did like the Burg Eltz info.

odyssey4,

Any place in Cochem. Look at Ben's site for accomodations. It's broken-down by region and then by city. It's only a 15 minute train ride to Moselkern and then about an hour walk through the forest. Of course you could drive to the parking lot at Burg Eltz or Moselkern, the walk through the woods is a greatly anticipated part of our journey.

We personally are staying at Hotel Pension Dettmar in Bacharach but going no farther west than Cochem.

MvK

I have another idea for our itinerary after looking over some other posts. Would it be feasible to stay in Germany for 3 nights, Switzerland (Berner Oberland) for 3 nights, then Lake Como or Lugano for two nights or possibly northern Italy and then go to Mittenwald for two nights before going to Salzburg?

I would like for someone to give me some opinions on "do not miss sites" in these places. I know everyone has their own opinions on what is great, but I may not run into an idea unless it's shared and then I would miss out! Thanks in advance.

Also, I am a really picky eater, so the fancy foods actually scare me. I need to have some basic dining options. I know so many people comment on the great cuisine in this area. I have actually looked at some of the menus and don't really find much that appeals to me. If there's a pizza nearby or spaghetti, I'll be okay. I am just being honest- I am sure many who post will be aghast at this- sorry!

Don't worry about the food---almost every casual/moderately priced restaurant in Switzerland and Germany offers a pizza or pasta option. And there's always the "Fitness Teller"---a grilled chicken breast with a salad. Indded, most of the food is not "fancy", just simple dishes made with good quality, fresh ingredients so it tastes great.

Your new plan looks doable, although I don't know the driving times. By train, there is a direct route from Luzern to Lugano, so there must be a road too? It's only about 2.5 hours by train. From Lugano, you could head east, around the north side of Lake Como, and to Bolzano, which would make a nice stop. The Ice Man museum is there. From there a main road heads up into Austria, at Innsbruck, and on to Mittenwald.

Hausfrau, if it is possible to reach you this way...Wanted to see if you could comment on lodging near Stuttgart- you mentioned both Badwimpfen and Tuebingen in a post awhile back. We are now considering stopping either in Strasbourg or near Stuttgart on the way to Switzerland.