barksducks

Hi all --

I've posted here before, asking opinions of where my wife and I might want to settle in France with our two young sons, and using some advice we've got here, we're now in the country, looking around.

We're in Paris for five days right now and although we're Parisiphiles, we've never looked at the city (or environs) as a possible place to live, and now that we're here, we're a little uncertain where to focus. Do folks have suggestions for neighbourhoods outside of the very center of Paris in terms of up-and-coming spots (ie not impossible in terms of rental availabililty or costs), or perhaps special corners of the city? We're interested both in neighbourhoods right in town and areas/towns within an hour of the city by RER. Also, does anyone know of resources for renters in the city?

Our vitals: two very active, bilingual boys, 6 and 8, in need of both urban and green exposure; their parents, very flex, one an artist, the other in health care. (Both EEC, btw, so no worries about transferability ...)

Many thanks!!!

Michael

Trudaine

"Our vitals: two very active, bilingual boys, 6 and 8, in need of both urban and green exposure"

My two cents as a Parisian :

If you do not want to live in the very centre (which I understand), you could visit the outer arrondissements, especially those family oriented, such as the 12th (close to the bois de Vincennes), the 14th (with the parc Montsouris), the 15th (Parc André Citroën, the 19th (around the parc des Buttes-Chaumont). These are just suggestions, as there are good neighbourhoods in almost every part of Paris.

In the inner suburbs, east of Paris you might check out Vincennes, Saint-Mandé, Saint-Maurice (all around the Bois), the up-and-coming, more "bobo" Montreuil, and, west, Boulogne and Issy-les-Moulineaux.

Further out, you might see all the suburban communities along the Marne river, and, further east, the newish developments around Eurodisney. Of course you have all the traditional affluent towns south and west of the capital, accessible by RER (L'Haÿ-les Roses, Sceaux, Meudon, Saint-Cloud, Versailles, Rueil-Malmaison, Chatou, Marly-le-roi, Saint-Germain-en-Laye (but rents and prices in general are high). If you want to be close to La Défense, you could check out Suresnes and Courbevoie.

hanl

For rentals, try looking at de Particulier à Particulier (www.pap.fr) - a weekly classifieds magazine. It only publishes ads by private individuals so no agency fees to worry about. However, rents tend to be slightly higher when a property is let directly by the owner.

Otherwise, try www.alouer.fr or www.seloger.fr for property listings by agencies. They usually charge the equivalent of one month's rent in fees, if they successfully rent a property to you. Avoid agencies that require you to pay a fee before letting you see their listings.

You could also seek out Fusac magazine, a free weekly listings magazine aimed at English-speaking expats in Paris. You can pick it up at any British/American/Irish pub or bar, WH Smith bookshop on Rue de Rivoli, Brentano's on avenue de l'Opéra... It has classified ads in English, although the housing offers are usually somewhat overpriced. Still, it'll give you an insight into the expat world in Paris, and there are sometimes interesting job offers for English speakers.

Unfortunately the kind of accommodation you are seeking is what every young Parisian family is looking for, so expect stiff competition.

Landlords/agencies in Paris expect tenants net pay to be equivalent to 3 or 4 times the rent - and yes they will ask to see payslips or tax statements so don't be surprised!

Indeed, you are expected, when renting, to provide agencies or landlords with a "dossier" and most people, when visiting properties, will come armed with this. Usually it should contain (among other things) photocopies of your passport or ID card, last three payslips, references from previous landlord or receipts showing payment of rent, etc.

They may also ask you to give the name of a guarantor, who might also be asked to sign papers stating they will guarantee the rent if you are unable to pay.
This is all par for the course.

Trudaine has given you good suggestions re. neighbourhoods - of course it all depends where you will be working. That is really going to be the determining factor for you when you look for a place to live.

Dave_in_Paris

to the list, I would add the 11th arrondissement on or near rue Faideherbe-Chaligny and rue Paul Bert, or rue Ledru-Rollin. These are two very pleasant micro neighborhoods, with interesting shops and good restuarants east of Place de La Bastille, with loft as well as traditional apartment building housing. Another area perhaps worth prospecting is farther out, the vicinity of Place Gambetta. To the north of Paris, you might want to consider Chantilly, about 40 minutes by train from the Gare du Nord. There's considerable "recent" housing on one side of town in wooded settings, and the "green corridor" from Chantilly to Senlis is very attractive.

Dave_in_Paris

Correcting my post. It's rue Faidherbe, not Faidherbe-Chaligny. Renting is typically easier, in terms of formalities, from English or American absentee owners, and the entente between compatriots can give you a leg up, but beware of sublets, many of which are unauthorized by the owner and therefore precarious.

barksducks

Many thanks for these responses -- we've been into a few rental agencies and see what the competition is like. We loved the 19th, and will go look at the 15th tomorrow, but were not crazy about the 14th, which seemed lonesome and architecturally cold throughout. The park was gorgeous, tho. If you had to prioritize the less central zones you suggested, Trudaine, which two or three would you say are most promising?

Thanks again ...

M

Trudaine

Barksducks :

It's a tough question, not knowing your precise requirements.

In the outer arrondissements, I would maybe focus on the 12th and on its more residential parts(south of Nation, a great transport hub, around the avenue de Saint-Mandé, around the place Daumesnil, or south of the arrondissement, in the new developments around the Parc de Bercy, in the 19th, definitely around the Buttes-Chaumont or in the quartier de la Mouzaïa (unique in Paris because this neighbourhood is almost entirely composed of single-family houses), as some parts of the arrondisements, around the canal, are supposedly edgy.

With parks in mind I would also add the classic 17th around the Square des Batignolles, or the square des Epinettes, or even the non-chinatown parts of the 13th. Maybe I'd give the 14th a try again.

I agree there are good places in the 11th, but the arrondissement is very dense and seriously lacks green spaces.

These are classic, desirable, middle class neighbourhoods, with convenient shopping. But, as Dave noted, Paris is full of interesting micro-neighbourhods, and things (and prices) can change a lot from one street to another. The busy street with heavy commuter traffic will always be less attractive than the more quiet residential cross street.

I can't really prioritise out-of-Paris locations.

A lot will depend on opportunity and you may end up in locations you hadn't initially envisaged!

moxie

Usually friends with kids choose the area in which to live by the school they want their kids to attend. Will they be going to a private or public school; will they need to go to be watched after school, bilingual schools etc plus they need to be registered as soon as possible...

After living in many different areas in Paris and the burbs, I enjoyed my time in the 15th (m° Charles Michel) the most (vs 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 11th, 5th and 16th).

Dave_in_Paris

Very good point, Trudaine, about the scarcity of green space in the 11th. It's small and scattered. Lovely strip park in the median of boulevard Richard Lenoir. Nice pocket park at Square Gardette. Even an intimate, quiet park off rue de Charonne east of boulevard Voltaire, hidden behind apartment buildings on the grounds of a former insane asylum! These are all relatively low-cost-housing areas but perhaps less appealing overall than some heavy-pavement micro-neighborhoods in the arrondissement.

Dave_in_Paris

Also, I agree the new buildings at Bercy on the edge of the lovely, large park created from the old wine depot stand out. The commerce in that area is not great, but I wouldn't mind living there at all.

musiclover

Hi,

thanks for all your very valuable advice! I am about to rent a studio apartment at Rue Paul Bert, and Dave's comments are extremely helpful. Could you please write some more about this area? And do you think if the rent euro 890 per month for this 32m2 very well furnished apartment fair enough? I need also pay about euro 1007 for broker(agent) fee. Many thanks!