Where should I buy abroad?
 

Hi there. I’m new to this forum so please forgive me for any etiquette I’m missing. I’ve done plenty of searching already but not found exactly what I’m after.....so here goes.

We are thinking of buying a place abroad and would like to hear from anyone who feels passionate about somewhere they keep returning to year after year or have taken the leap and bought a place themselves.

We we do not want to fly more than 3 hours from London airports and would like transfers under 90 minutes the other end. Our children are currently 3 months, 4 and 5 years old. We aim to spend the entire school summer holidays wherever we choose to buy so it needs to have plenty to keep us and the kids entertained. Ideally somewhere with a long season as we would also like to go during Easter and October half term.

So so where do you keep going year after year and why do you love it so much? Maybe you’ve bought in your dream destination? Please be as specific as you can rather than just saying “Mallorca”.....for example.

Gratefully looking forward to your thoughts.

Is this a vacation home? Are you a UK citizen, and if so are you aware that you may be subject to the Schengen limits on visits after Brexit? Have you checked out the expat forums? Do you need to be on/near a beach?

Hi Thursdaysd. Thanks for your response. Yes it’s a holiday home only at this stage. I’m not too worried about visa limits etc. as I can’t see travel in Europe being too affected even after Brexit. No, the property doesn’t need to be by a beach though I’m kind of just assuming it would likely be. Where were you thinking of?

France, Italy and Spain seem to be the most popular countries for citizens of the UK. If you can qualify for EU citizenship, you might not have a problem (other than unavoidable culture shock) after Brexit. Otherwise, you should think long and hard about the complexities.

Assuming you can pass this first immense hurdle, I believe you need to say something about what interests you -- warm, sunny weather, culture, gastronomy, fitting in with the locals, finding a place with the greatest number of expats, best flight routes, friendliest local residents... I have a British friend who lived in France for at least 15 years and left when he realised that the locals had never really accepted him and also that his wife was unhappy living so far from her family.

On the other hand, if it is just a vacation home, one can imagine that even after Brexit you will be allowed to spend 90 days at a time in the EU. But you might need to think about EU health coverage that you are likely to lose after Brexit. With young children, this could cost a fortune.

Then again, maybe you are rich.

Where have you already been? It is a big investment you are making and you have to be sure it suits you and your family not some random member of a largely American forum.

Brexit will seriously affect things, from the above mentioned health insurance and possible travel restrictions, to possible financial restrictions unless you manage to buy before next year, and insuring the property. Legalities such as inheritance laws and taxes will further complicate things.
Of course you can take out annual travel insurance to help with the health care aspect, but please do not underestiimate Brexit.

You have to decide which country appeals to you, and which area within that country. Friends have a place in Bulgaria which they love but which others who have been there are less keen on. Our friends speak German and have learned some Bulgarian, but language will be a problem no matter where.

I suggest unless you already have an area in mind you delay your decision and visit some places which meet your travel requirements and see if you really love them.

I bought a house in the Dordogne in 1993 and used it as a vacation home and a rental property before moving here permanently 3+ years ago, but I had some very specific criteria before I did so and had spent months and months in the area before I took the plunge.

I don't think it matters a bit where other people have relocated. It's where YOU want to go that matters, and for whatever reasons motivate you. At the very least I would say make a WHOLE LOT of trips at all times of year before you settle on a locale. I had made at least 30 trips to various parts of France, in winter, summer, spring, and fall, before I knew where I wanted to park my money. And I spoke French - language is not a small matter if you are serious about moving abroad if you want to become part of a community and not permanently some fenced-off "foreigner."

Why would you assume that a property would be near a beach? The vast majority of properties aren't, and those that are cost a fortune. But, as noted, maybe you are rich.

I have considered the Lisbon area of Portugal but for a retirement home. There is a large expat community, and I can qualify for residence even if Brexit actually happens. However, medical care has become an issue. I have no interest in buying,and would in any case recommend renting before buying.

A due respect but are they not your ideas that matter not ours. What other priorities have you got? Money, tax issues, language issues, purchase process etc. They can all put some folks off.
if you want buying advise look up expat forums. But be far specific about YOUR requirements.

What will you do with the house the rest of the year?

How about a beachfront apartment in Gibraltar? https://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas...-54239271.html

I think you are going at this backwards. You need to travel until you find a place that calls to you and your family. You'll know it when you find it. As mentioned already, our opinions or experiences really do not matter at all.

I have my sights set on a part-time Mexican retirement from the US but to a town I have vacationed in 30+ times over several decades. I'm not just walking in blind and purchasing a condo there (although many people do).

Another thing you might want to consider is sale ability of the place you buy in the case things don't work out and you have to leave.

Consider the southwest coast of Turkey or one of the Greek islands. You didn't mention what sort of activities you'd need to satisfy you and keep all of you entertained.

Why are you buying? To use? Or for an investment?

A common mistake made by people is to think in terms of investment. Many of the places on your list resale won't be quick or easy.

Already asked but when you aren't there who will look after the place? Will you hire somebody? Is that even possible?

What else do you need? A place in the middle of nowhere isn't likely to have health care near by.

Budget? No point people suggesting things totally different than your budget

There are countless beach towns in Italy that would fit what you've asked for. Including areas in the province of Rome. An apartment would mean less hassle when not in use.

This. I could toss out a place, but you haven’t given us enough of your desires to really help. A vacation/summer home is different from somewhere you spend a week. I can happily spend a week in Berlin, but wouldn’t necessarily want to spend a summer there.

Heck, there is the question of whether a vacation home is even right for you. My wife and I have debated this. My best friend has a vacation home in coastal Maine. He loves it and, frankly, we love it for the week we might spend there each year. But, we would never consider spending as much time there as my buddy. Ditto for my sister-in-law’s Pocono retreat. Our interests are too varied to invest in a place where we might want to spend multiple months every year.

If you have money to burn then buy a foreign holiday house.

no sorry, if you have money to burn, rent a more expensive holiday house.

buying a house in a foreign country where you probably have little knowledge of the language, legal system, local building regulations or planning laws , simply to sep d two weeks a year there makes little sense. After a few years, people usually realise that the financial commitment isn’t justified, fail to sell and then the fun starts when they rent it out when renters bring rabid Scottish Terriers who rip the place to pieces.

buy when you have time to use the property. In a stagnant European property market - rent and enjoy it.

I've considered buying on La Rochelle (until I saw the prices) and the fact that R@@@air might pull the flights at a whim put me off.

I've also looked at the Mosel and Alsace as the wine is fantastic and the walking/cycling splendid, the drive is only a night and 5 hours drive from Yorkshire. (see also Champagne, Pfalz etc)

We have London friends with their own chateau in Normandy who drive across regularly. It needs to be so easy to get to that you go whenever you want not just when you make the effort.They've worked very hard to turn the chateau from ruin to mansion over 20 years and raised two kids and loads of parties in the grounds. Wherever you pick has to be easy for you to export your friends to with multiple routes to the place. I have other friends with chalets in the Alps and again chose ones with easy access for your friends and neighbours.

Personally I grew up on a beach (Sandbanks) so have absolutely no interest in spending a day on wet sand ever again, but if you love it then choose it, just remember there is only so much coastline going around and much of the beautiful stuff has already been ruined by "people buying second homes"

eh, that's it,

Languages may be a barrier, but what an opportunity for the kids to re-wire their brains to work well. It takes about 3 years to get from 0 to B1 level putting in an hour a day. If you are prepared to invest a load of money, why not 1000 hours?

<<Wherever you pick has to be easy for you to export your friends to with multiple routes to the place. I have other friends with chalets in the Alps and again chose ones with easy access for your friends and neighbours.>>

I took the exact opposite route. I made darned sure my place was a PITA to get to. Too many people going to Paris who just thought they'd "drop by" for a spell. No thanks.

Consider how easy it is nowadays to rent a house, through Airbnb, Homeaway or other sites.

No beds to make up, no laundry to do when you leave, no washing machine to fix, no cleaning to do because the regular cleaner didn't show up, no hassle with the local telecom operator because your internet/tv isn't working, no garden to maintain, no tax/service charge/utility/repair bills. I've been there and done it. Now I'm happy to arrive at my rented home, where the beds are made up, pool is cleaned and the grass has been cut by someone else.

If you really want to do this: rent somewhere for a month or more, before you commit to buying.

I think our OP just dipped in here on a whim and won't be back.

Not necessarily. When someone is new, posts their are limited meaning they can't return immediately.

I think @kerouac may be right, the OP may have disappeared. We will see if there is a response.

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Like the others mentioned, renting is a completely great strategy. We decided to buy when the Euro/USD dipped and focused on the countries lining the Med. We've traveled up and down the coasts and tried different areas. Eventually we settled on the Cote d'Azur and Sicily, and ended up on the former, in Nice, despite the much higher costs. We hired a property consultant that helped narrow down specific areas and navigate through the process of purchasing and setting up a household. Some factors we considered for holiday buyers that others have not mentioned: how stable are the economic systems and purchase process for foreign buyers, are services for maintenance and upkeep for remote buyers readily available, how is the off-summer rental market, what's the area like in the offseason in case you want to use it, is it foreigner-friendly, are there medical services nearby, is public transit an option, and if we do change our minds or circumstances change, what's the net loss when selling (and are you comfortable with that).

We use our flat part-time and the rest of the time a turn key management firm handles everything (and generates a profit).

I joined recently and was limitedt to 2 posts a day, and no url.
Maybe OP will be bacl in a few days. Meanwhile OP got the usual answers : you sure it is a good idea ? you rich ? you speak language ? etc.
We have a secondary house in southern France and nobody would care if my neighbours spoke English and no french at all. Provence is overloaded with English speaking people, mostly Brits and nobody cares and they get along fine. With kids that age I'd just make sure the house has a swimming pool and is in good condition as you won't want to start doing renvoation work for holiday.
That said, I would choose along the beach as kids love it or close to a lake, and the kids would take sailing lessons. My own kids brought me home some englishspeaking kids from saling lessons...
I would not go into remote places, as the kids will eventually grow, it seems they all do, and they'll want to stay home instead of accompanying their parents once they reach age 15 - 17. If they can be motivated to have fun the way young people have fun, they might till come along. If not they'll just stay with their friends or drag their feet.
My 2 cents.

Another caution. You might want to make sure that rentals of property by non-resident owners are legal.

Why not rent? Try out a few different places that interest you. See how things go for your family. I see zero advantage to making a major real estate purchase in a place you know nothing about!

Thanks guys......OP here. Yes I was restricted to two posts in 24 hours. Sorry I asked the question the way I did. Clearly it has stirred vitriolic emotions regarding how stupid it would be to buy somewhere based on feedback from an internet forum that I'd just joined that day. There's me thinking I'd have bought something by now if one of you had just done the decent thing and told me where I should buy (that was irony.....just in case).

I thought it was clear that my thread was intended to solicit responses from people who had fallen in love with places they'd traveled to but clearly it was interpreted quite differently. Perhaps I should have asked where people have enjoyed so much that they keep going back and why they love said place so much. I'll rephrase my question and post it again on this forum and see how I get on. If anyone tells me I should just go and visit places I like (which presumably I've not been to yet) or that post Brexit I might as well just throw away my passport then I'll just take it on the chin and put it down to experience.

Thanks though to the few of you that actually gave their 2 cents worth on places they like so much.....I'll look into them and see if any of them warrant further research.

stirred vitriolic emotions

hardly -lol!

You didn't ask. But I did say. I adore Puerto Vallarta and have gone there twice a year for many years and plan to retire part-time there. But I would never purchase real estate in Mexico. The list of why I love that place is a mile long! But it is not 3 hours from London or anything like what you want for your family.

Paris would be my choice.

Paris was mine. Twenty years later, I'm not a bit sorry.

What Thibault says is very true. Once your children are teenagers, they don't want the same thing as when they are small.
We loved being on the Cote d'Azur; so much to do and see and close to the airport in Nice. You may not want all your friends to come over, but once your children are a bit older, they may not want (or be able to) spend a month there, so will fly in and out.
And if you are not retired, one of you may have to fly in and out to work as well. I have friends with property near St Tropez, where picking up family members from the airport is a quite a hassle.
Small kids are happy with a pool or beach nearby, teenagers want to be able to go out by themselves occasionally. If you are in the middle of nowhere, that can be difficult.
Which is why I recommend renting rather than owning - until you find somewhere where you may want to retire.
I'd recommend somewhere like Valbonne or Mougins or Vence.

If you let your property while you are not there, consider the local tax implications (and your own tax liabilities at home) as well as the rules for short-term lettings.

Make a financial overview to see if it makes sense, including cost of mortgage, local taxes, utilities, renovations, local staff (cleaning, garden - and you want someone keeping an eye on it when you are not there for long periods) etc and see what you could rent for that amount. If you are going to spend 3 months a year there, it may make sense to buy, but I would only do that if you know the area well and know for sure that you are going to be happy there.

I'd like to be able to recommend the two areas we love, the Orne and the Mayenne, but I don't think they meet any of your criteria. They are lowkey, pretty much untouristed, and unexciting. But to us they are full of interesting places. I think one key thing is how your kids integrate. If there are kids their age living nearby and they can make friends, they'll love being there, wherever you end up.

Lot of clap trap written about what will or will not happen after Brexit.
Way before the UK joined the EU The Brits were flying, taking public transport to mainland Europe. Even driving their cars abroad. Brits even purchased property.
Maybe after Brexit you will have to go back to the same the same processes as prr-EU.That is nothing onerous. That would make it seem as if you were really going to a foreign country. At one time there used to be a limit to the amount one could exchange before you went on vacation. I do hope that that will not be reinstated.
Brits still purchase property in the US, Caribbean too.

Yes, as I recall when I first came to England back in the late 60s the maximum one could exchange or take abroad was £50! I believe that was what helped kickstart the package holiday boom, because most of your expenses were paid upfront. A Google search will find lots of hits on the topic, including https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ncy-limit.html

vitriolic; I think you have not seen vitriolic ;-) good luck with whatever you decide. My friends wanted bring their kids to the same place every year for holiday so that they, the parents, felt they knew where they were and that they were safeish. It seems to worked for them.

I grew up sailing from port to port so every marina was my play area, it makes some sense.