When to buy airline tickets to Europe?
Oct 16th, 2004, 02:04 PM
#21
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Surf,
Sidestep is a bonafide program associated with US Airways. Yes it does launch the left side window when accessing any travel site...which can be annoying if you don't want it, although usually almost always I do to compare. A simple click of the upper right "x" gets rid of it and doesn't reappear while still using the site you were at. Only if you launch a new browser window or go to another site. I am not aware of any spyware.
Sidestep is a bonafide program associated with US Airways. Yes it does launch the left side window when accessing any travel site...which can be annoying if you don't want it, although usually almost always I do to compare. A simple click of the upper right "x" gets rid of it and doesn't reappear while still using the site you were at. Only if you launch a new browser window or go to another site. I am not aware of any spyware.
Oct 16th, 2004, 03:22 PM
#22
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Traveler863
What you report is not consistent with what AA says about the deepest discount tickets.
At
https://www.refunds.aa.com/Help/help_s1.asp#eticket
they certainly appear to say that a change fee is involved, and that a voucher, rather than a refund, is given.
Perhaps you have been buying a less restricted class of tickets, but those cost more than the deepest discount tickets, and if you are paying $700 for a seat that can be had for $400 in the hopes that a fare decrease may come around and get you a voucher for $250, please don't buy any tickets for me.
I think part of the problem here is that the airline industry is in flux and there are changes almost daily as airlines try to maximize revenue without driving away customers. So if someone got a cash refund six months ago, that may not be the policy today. And if someone paid more for a semi-restricted ticket, and got a credit, or even a refund, that is relevant only if you know the class of ticket, the current policies regarding that class of ticket, and the cost of other tickets that will allow you to ride in the same seat. Almost weekly we see airlines raising prices, only to drop them the next week if their competition doesn't match their raise, or airlines drop their prices, only to raise them the next week if it doesn't appear that they are gaining market share.
We are always concerned about the airfare because it is one of the biggest items in our travel budget, but it is a complicated and changing subject, so my advice remains to pick a price you will be satisfied with and pounce if and when that price comes up.
What you report is not consistent with what AA says about the deepest discount tickets.
At
https://www.refunds.aa.com/Help/help_s1.asp#eticket
they certainly appear to say that a change fee is involved, and that a voucher, rather than a refund, is given.
Perhaps you have been buying a less restricted class of tickets, but those cost more than the deepest discount tickets, and if you are paying $700 for a seat that can be had for $400 in the hopes that a fare decrease may come around and get you a voucher for $250, please don't buy any tickets for me.
I think part of the problem here is that the airline industry is in flux and there are changes almost daily as airlines try to maximize revenue without driving away customers. So if someone got a cash refund six months ago, that may not be the policy today. And if someone paid more for a semi-restricted ticket, and got a credit, or even a refund, that is relevant only if you know the class of ticket, the current policies regarding that class of ticket, and the cost of other tickets that will allow you to ride in the same seat. Almost weekly we see airlines raising prices, only to drop them the next week if their competition doesn't match their raise, or airlines drop their prices, only to raise them the next week if it doesn't appear that they are gaining market share.
We are always concerned about the airfare because it is one of the biggest items in our travel budget, but it is a complicated and changing subject, so my advice remains to pick a price you will be satisfied with and pounce if and when that price comes up.
Oct 16th, 2004, 04:30 PM
#23
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One of the main points I was trying to make that for May travel (indeed, for May travel <i>in particular</i>, because I feel like I have a certain amount of experience tracking May fares in recent years), the window of opportunity is large enough that you can watch for well over 4-8 weeks - - and feel less panic than for some other periods - - that you must pounce on the first bargain you see. You are likely to have more than one chance during the winter months.
As with all fare-hunting, a lot depends on how/when/whether you are ready to commit. For example, there are rumblings starting on another thread about a possible Fodorites trip to Greece in May 2005. I cannot commit for at least another 8 weeks or so. I am not stressed about the likelihood of being able to find a good fare after January 1.
But, if your plans are reasonably firm - - and especially if you find the routing/schedule that jumps out at you as the "perfect match" to your needs, then buy it THEN - - at the price that looks likely to be your best deal. Less prefect matches may come along at the same price, and you could regret having let the "sweet one" get away.
I might be less picky about routing and schedule; each purchaser has to find his/her own comfort level on that.
As with all fare-hunting, a lot depends on how/when/whether you are ready to commit. For example, there are rumblings starting on another thread about a possible Fodorites trip to Greece in May 2005. I cannot commit for at least another 8 weeks or so. I am not stressed about the likelihood of being able to find a good fare after January 1.
But, if your plans are reasonably firm - - and especially if you find the routing/schedule that jumps out at you as the "perfect match" to your needs, then buy it THEN - - at the price that looks likely to be your best deal. Less prefect matches may come along at the same price, and you could regret having let the "sweet one" get away.
I might be less picky about routing and schedule; each purchaser has to find his/her own comfort level on that.
Oct 16th, 2004, 04:51 PM
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Cleveland,
Since the response that Travel863 made was to my post, I can only answer for what we experienced. I haven't checked the fare type but was a cheap as AA offered at the time. (with a BA codeshare portion thrown in)
This was a ticket from St. Louis to Budapest for this coming week. Purchased in the low $700's then as the cheapest fare I'd found on any OneWorld flights. Lots of research at the time to arrive at that conclusion, other than through consolidators. A few weeks ago noticed the same routing/flights on AA.com for $82 per person less and asked them reduce the fare to that price. As they have before, they credited the card. Whether their agents were right or wrong each time, I don't know. But that's the story as I know it.
Oct 16th, 2004, 04:53 PM
#25
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Many of you have mentioned keeping an eye on the rates and jumping on an exceptional deal when it is offered by one of the airlines.
My question is how to monitor the rates? Should I continually go to the AA, BA, DA sites and put in my dates to check for a change in price? Or alternatively, put the dates in Priceline or Orbitz and note what airline is offering the best deal.
Currently AA is listing a $570. rate for Miami to Paris May 12 (a Thursday) returning May 23 (a Monday). How can I tell if this will be my best rate?
My question is how to monitor the rates? Should I continually go to the AA, BA, DA sites and put in my dates to check for a change in price? Or alternatively, put the dates in Priceline or Orbitz and note what airline is offering the best deal.
Currently AA is listing a $570. rate for Miami to Paris May 12 (a Thursday) returning May 23 (a Monday). How can I tell if this will be my best rate?
Oct 16th, 2004, 05:51 PM
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Clevelandbrown,
I do not think you quite understand there is a difference in getting a "refund" on a purchased ticket, no matter what the restriction...in my experience I only buy the most restrictive (ie., cheapest avail) vs. a REFUND for flights purchased that are either changed or unused which is what the AA website link you forwarded only addresses. I have never found a published (in print) policy for refunds that covers price reductions. I really think you need to call AA and ask, what happens if the price goes down? And see what they tell you. When you have done that we'll continue this discussion. This is something they certainly don't have in print because its not to their advantange nor their RESPONSIBILITY....its just good customer service! Go AA!
I am certainly not going to get into the ins and outs of the airline industry as you have. Yes I most certainly agree they change daily, what we thought yesterday tomorrow is different.
Best of luck in your travels and enjoy.
I do not think you quite understand there is a difference in getting a "refund" on a purchased ticket, no matter what the restriction...in my experience I only buy the most restrictive (ie., cheapest avail) vs. a REFUND for flights purchased that are either changed or unused which is what the AA website link you forwarded only addresses. I have never found a published (in print) policy for refunds that covers price reductions. I really think you need to call AA and ask, what happens if the price goes down? And see what they tell you. When you have done that we'll continue this discussion. This is something they certainly don't have in print because its not to their advantange nor their RESPONSIBILITY....its just good customer service! Go AA!
I am certainly not going to get into the ins and outs of the airline industry as you have. Yes I most certainly agree they change daily, what we thought yesterday tomorrow is different.
Best of luck in your travels and enjoy.
Oct 16th, 2004, 05:53 PM
#27
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Use the monitors on travelocity and expedia for one thing. And follow the cheap flights forum on www.eurotrip.com for another. Don, - - the master of all airfare bargains, and resident guru there - - knows more than the next dozen cleverest people I have ever encountered.
Oct 16th, 2004, 06:06 PM
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Rex,
Those are ok but not the best, Sidestep and Gardy's link are excellent for quick checks. But once a good hit a good airfare tracker will take it and break it down, go to that airline website or one where you can break down the legs and piece it....there are some fares that don't come up in those searches and only had by putting it together manually. The trick is to find the cheap basis and go from there. For example, Icelandair has a $598 sale to Frankfurt but you might want to open jaw it with say Milan but perhaps those flights don't come up because flight times are off...might need to fly to Rekjevik for the night then fly on. Most airline systems don't account for that, you have to plug in your chosen layovers manually. Typically the rule of thumb is for international layovers you have 23 hours before stopover charge vs. domestic US is 4 hours.
Best of luck in your travels and enjoy.
Those are ok but not the best, Sidestep and Gardy's link are excellent for quick checks. But once a good hit a good airfare tracker will take it and break it down, go to that airline website or one where you can break down the legs and piece it....there are some fares that don't come up in those searches and only had by putting it together manually. The trick is to find the cheap basis and go from there. For example, Icelandair has a $598 sale to Frankfurt but you might want to open jaw it with say Milan but perhaps those flights don't come up because flight times are off...might need to fly to Rekjevik for the night then fly on. Most airline systems don't account for that, you have to plug in your chosen layovers manually. Typically the rule of thumb is for international layovers you have 23 hours before stopover charge vs. domestic US is 4 hours.
Best of luck in your travels and enjoy.
Oct 16th, 2004, 06:14 PM
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Surf,
No, that is why I suggested Sidestep, which to do not like....it does all that initial searching in one step, stay with me here. It searches all the airlines, and other vendors such as Expedia, Travelocity, Cheaptickets, Orbtiz, etc. From those hits you can do more investigation should you find something good. However, Gardy's link does just about the same thing, however I don't know yet because I haven't researched it yet what exactly it searches, I do know its all the major airlines but the search capability is excellent. Do try to use it. Good luck.
No, that is why I suggested Sidestep, which to do not like....it does all that initial searching in one step, stay with me here. It searches all the airlines, and other vendors such as Expedia, Travelocity, Cheaptickets, Orbtiz, etc. From those hits you can do more investigation should you find something good. However, Gardy's link does just about the same thing, however I don't know yet because I haven't researched it yet what exactly it searches, I do know its all the major airlines but the search capability is excellent. Do try to use it. Good luck.
Oct 16th, 2004, 06:51 PM
#30
Go to Travelocity.com and under "customer care" choose "farewatcher." That will send notices of fare changes to your selected cities to you automatically. Yahoo! travel has a similar, if more passive, notification system.
If you want to be ultra-wonky on this, go to flyertalk.com and keep an eye on the "mileage run" board. Ground zero for fare snoopers, ideal if you want to get from Dallas to Paris via Honolulu and Boise (for the additional miles.)
Regarding ITA, I believe it interfaces with Sabre and/or Amadeus, the industry database servers.
If you want to be ultra-wonky on this, go to flyertalk.com and keep an eye on the "mileage run" board. Ground zero for fare snoopers, ideal if you want to get from Dallas to Paris via Honolulu and Boise (for the additional miles.)
Regarding ITA, I believe it interfaces with Sabre and/or Amadeus, the industry database servers.
Oct 16th, 2004, 07:06 PM
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Gardy,
You're a wealth. I'm on all the fare watcher lists but hadn't heard about flyertalk. I used to kid a friend who once flew to SFO from DC for 8 hours for miles but Honolulu to Boise to Paris if I had time might be fun. More great info, again many thanks.
You're a wealth. I'm on all the fare watcher lists but hadn't heard about flyertalk. I used to kid a friend who once flew to SFO from DC for 8 hours for miles but Honolulu to Boise to Paris if I had time might be fun. More great info, again many thanks.
Oct 17th, 2004, 12:36 AM
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Surf,
I forgot to mention, you have to be up on what fares generally are and what a sale fare is in order to know what the best price is.....sorry that sounds confusing but you have to be familiar with the market. To me, $570 from Miami in May is very reasonable....if its nonstop, and it should be as Miami is an AA hub...book it!
I forgot to mention, you have to be up on what fares generally are and what a sale fare is in order to know what the best price is.....sorry that sounds confusing but you have to be familiar with the market. To me, $570 from Miami in May is very reasonable....if its nonstop, and it should be as Miami is an AA hub...book it!
Oct 17th, 2004, 05:15 AM
#33
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Travel, just this morning the rate on AA has risen from $576 to $611 illustrating the volatile pricing schedule of flights to Europe. The difference for two is only about $70 but I think I have plenty of time to wait and see. Thanks to all for your great tools to get the best fare.
Oct 17th, 2004, 10:21 AM
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The "$70 bump" is for two. A $35 increase on a $576 ticket hardly seems to merit the term "volatile". I agree that <i>deeply discounted</i> air fares do seem to pop up and disappear like dandelions on a lawn in the spring, so the availability of low cost fares may seem volatile. Not so different from anything else that goes on sale at frequent and erratic intervals.
"Volatility" in pricing is one of those funny words that depends a lot on how stable we expect the price of something to be. The price of plywood has been labeled as wildly volatile since the hurricanes of the past two months started taking their toll. In many cases, it has doubled or tripled, but seeing it 50% or 80% off (what it was in July) is almost certain never to occur in the foreseeable future. Air fares are just the opposite; a doubling or tripling (of the "full" coach fare, for example) is almost certain NOT going to occur, not even if some extraordinary unfavorable world event were to happen - - yet seats almost surely WILL be offered at 50% off, or even 80% off repeatedly in the near (and longer term) future.
"Volatility" in pricing is one of those funny words that depends a lot on how stable we expect the price of something to be. The price of plywood has been labeled as wildly volatile since the hurricanes of the past two months started taking their toll. In many cases, it has doubled or tripled, but seeing it 50% or 80% off (what it was in July) is almost certain never to occur in the foreseeable future. Air fares are just the opposite; a doubling or tripling (of the "full" coach fare, for example) is almost certain NOT going to occur, not even if some extraordinary unfavorable world event were to happen - - yet seats almost surely WILL be offered at 50% off, or even 80% off repeatedly in the near (and longer term) future.
Oct 17th, 2004, 02:01 PM
#36
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The economics of the aircraft industry are very simple-there are multiple fare prices on each plane. Are you suggesting that the airlines move to the lowest common denominator and give everyone a price/refund based on the lowest fare give for that flight in Economy. IF this is the expectation, then you should also expect fares to increase significantly. It is supply and demand. Deeply discounting twenty empty seats prior to departure is better than having no 'bums in the seats' on that flight. The revenue is mostly all upside.
Oct 18th, 2004, 10:13 AM
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Traveller863,
I must apologize. I checked further and found in AAs CofC that they do issue a refund if the fare is reduced; they offer it also at their option if the fare is temporarily reduced, which I would take to be something like a sale.
I should have known better than to cross keyboards with such an experienced traveller.
I'm feeling a little blue now. When we started travelling a few years ago, I realized that we would fly enough to keep status on only one airline, so I looked at who has the most flights at our base airport, who has the best flights on the routes we would be taking often (one naturally will want to visit grandchildren frequently), who had the best prices, who flew overseas to where we were most likely to go, and who had a decent FF program. Continental came out just ahead of AA, and now that I am indentured to Continental, AA comes up with MRTC, refunds when prices go down, and just recently, lower prices on our frequent route to San Diego! At least we've had good luck so far getting upgrades on Continental.
I must apologize. I checked further and found in AAs CofC that they do issue a refund if the fare is reduced; they offer it also at their option if the fare is temporarily reduced, which I would take to be something like a sale.
I should have known better than to cross keyboards with such an experienced traveller.
I'm feeling a little blue now. When we started travelling a few years ago, I realized that we would fly enough to keep status on only one airline, so I looked at who has the most flights at our base airport, who has the best flights on the routes we would be taking often (one naturally will want to visit grandchildren frequently), who had the best prices, who flew overseas to where we were most likely to go, and who had a decent FF program. Continental came out just ahead of AA, and now that I am indentured to Continental, AA comes up with MRTC, refunds when prices go down, and just recently, lower prices on our frequent route to San Diego! At least we've had good luck so far getting upgrades on Continental.
Oct 18th, 2004, 04:35 PM
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Clevelandbrown,
I've never noticed it in the contract of carriage...and quite honestly never really looked too hard, its just something they've always done. I'm more familiar with rule 240 when it comes to the CoC. Check Continental, they may do it as well and you just aren't aware. I don't know, I don't fly Continental very often. I, like you and most people, fly with the airline that best serves my area. For me, thats UA since I'm in a UA hub so more nonstops both domestic and int'l and AA because they have best Caribbean service. I will say for airline policies and FF program AA is the best. I rarely have difficulties using FF miles for either free tickets or upgrades. They also give those free companion tickets when applying for a Citibank card, never had trouble using those either and sometimes in combo with FF miles (multiple tickets). One thing I should add wrt refunds when ticket prices go down are if you've bought a ticket and used miles to upgrade it...its unlikely to qualify for a refund because upgradeable fare classes are generally full fare coach (eg., Y class) and not valid for deeply discounted tickets...therefore getting a refund when the price goes down either you give up your upgrade or you don't get the discount. I always keep my upgrade
I've never noticed it in the contract of carriage...and quite honestly never really looked too hard, its just something they've always done. I'm more familiar with rule 240 when it comes to the CoC. Check Continental, they may do it as well and you just aren't aware. I don't know, I don't fly Continental very often. I, like you and most people, fly with the airline that best serves my area. For me, thats UA since I'm in a UA hub so more nonstops both domestic and int'l and AA because they have best Caribbean service. I will say for airline policies and FF program AA is the best. I rarely have difficulties using FF miles for either free tickets or upgrades. They also give those free companion tickets when applying for a Citibank card, never had trouble using those either and sometimes in combo with FF miles (multiple tickets). One thing I should add wrt refunds when ticket prices go down are if you've bought a ticket and used miles to upgrade it...its unlikely to qualify for a refund because upgradeable fare classes are generally full fare coach (eg., Y class) and not valid for deeply discounted tickets...therefore getting a refund when the price goes down either you give up your upgrade or you don't get the discount. I always keep my upgrade
