Huitres

Ciao SeaUrchin! I totally agree, the "americanized" attempts at Italian cuisine in the U.S. are just dismal. Southern Italian (Sicilian) seems to be the default type Italian food one finds in America; and if you hunt hard, you can find a decent Northern Italian cuisine restaurant. The problem is the prices are high, not correct use of the recipe (preparation) and the place is over-rated. I find that particularly true here in LA (you're a local too right?) The fact that Italian places can rip customers off when essentially, they are preparing food (pasta) made with the cheapest ingredients out there: flour, water, egg. What costs 7 or 9 euros a plate in Italia will cost double or even triple that in the U.S. (LA in particular). It's a travesty really and no wonder Italians like to cook their own dishes at home once they move to America. They taste better anyway and much cheaper to prepare!

SeaUrchin

HI, good to see you posting again. I agree. I do like Celestino in Pasadena for their Northern (I think) food but I pay the price to do so. You are on the Westside? We really pay the price in that area. Now I am making myself hungry!

Pilates

Huitres, that Germany story of a new tradition is cute.

Huitres and SU: Your experience is what my experience has been. Along with wine, food-its quality, its flavor, its freshness, its being "genuine" or not, seems to be an enjoyable topic to discuss from the typical Italian that I have met while traveling. That's why I started this thread. I was surprised reading the raves for Denny's....from one travelogue to the next. It's funny but after I posted this thread originally and after reading maybe 5 or 6 more trip reports, I haven't yet found another Denny's rave. In fact I was pleased to see that one group found The Rose cafe in Venice, CA for a good breakfast.

P.S. I've enjoyed reading all the contributions from the Fodorites on this thread. Thanks.

demmler67

I think it's like any other cultures cuisine brought to america.

I'm chinese and I think americanized chinese food is gross. The style that's typically represented in the chinese restaurants aren't even the best! (like shanghainese cuisine, for example)

Huitres

Further to the breakfast thing and Denny's...not one of my Italian friends (25+ people) I know would go to a Denny's or an IHOP because they are just not breakfast eaters. A cappucino and maybe a brioche is about it in the morning. Eating stacks of pancakes, eggs, bacon, sausage, hashed browns is considered downright gluttonous. (I know this from personal experience dealing with my friends, trying to shed some positive light on the whole American concept of eating a hearty breakfast).

SeaUrchin: Yes, the Westside...now down in the OC, formerly of South Pasadena, so I have moved around the area a bit. I do find it frustrating that the default Italian food an American can get is the Sicilian, red sauce variety. Amazing how the influx of Sicilian immigrants stamped their style and flavors of cuisine on what is now defined as "Italian" here in America (spaghetti with meat balls, pizza, ragu, ravioli -- all in red sauces). Northern Italian cooking is more preferred (IMO) but harder to find. I will have to try Celestino's in Pasadena as it is very close to my home town of South Pas.

demmler67 - I totally agree with you that oftentimes countries' cuisines are misrepresented as being "the type" representative of the entire country. It seems to be true in all cultures once their cuisine hits America. We Americans tend to "adapt" and change everything to a more homogenized, specific type cuisine. The only way to overcome this cuisine "deficiency" is to keep returning to Europe and other countries to one's fill of cultural dishes made the way they should be made!

With all this talk of food, let's eat plenty at Thanksgiving! ha ha

Neil_Oz

Huitres, I hardly ever order pasta in a restaurant because it's just so cheap and easy to knock up dozens of good pasta dishes at home.

In Australia our experience has been somewhat similar, although the dominant Italian group here is the Calabrese. I think one explanation is that while many new immigrants get their start by opening an eatery, few are professional chefs and so they play it by ear, relying on a limited repertoire of cheap, simple dishes. They could also rely on the fact that their "Anglo" customers knew even less. I still meet lots of people who think Italian cooking = pasta.

Things are looking up now with a new generation of Italian restaurateurs, but you get the same problem with many other immigrant groups. Of the many Thai restaurants here in Canberra, nearly all dish up an unvarying choice of tom yum goong, green curry, red curry, massaman curry and so forth. I think their menus are all produced by some mysterious central bureau. But as with the earlier Italians, most of their clientele don't know any better, so why take risks?

I guess it's a similar pattern to Chinese restaurants, which started to open here after the 19th century gold rushes and produced non-confronting one-dish meals like chicken chow mein amd sweet-and-sour pork for their suspicious "Anglo" customers. These days we (most of us anyway) have at least come to terms with shared dishes and chopsticks and things have improved.

Neil_Oz

Demmler67 - I can't comment on Chinese-American food (only one experience, in San Francisco, which was OK). However in all fairness I found that the standard of food in average "family" restaurants in China wasn't always that great, and often not as good as my local Cantonese place, which has a Hong Kong-trained chef. Having said that, there are of course many more opportunities to find excellent cuisine than at home. More so in the east than the north, though, I thought. Shanghainese - definitely a cut above.

massagediva

Olive Garden is the Red Lobster of Italian food.

Red Lobster is the Olive Garden of seafood.

(not too surprising as they are,or were,owned by the same parent company)

YUCK!

LoriS

When our friends from Italy come to the US, they always want to go to IHOP (but only for breakfast). They went once for lunch and thought the sandwiches would be like panini!

bridezilla

This is fascinating!
I took my Italian husband back home to Kansas City and introduced him to root beer floats at an old fashioned ice cream parlor (during an ice storm in January), Hooters (I was the only female patron) and Cracker Barrel for breakfast (I had to literally tear him away from the fried catfish). He loved every moment of it.
While there is a lot of good food to be had in the States, let's face it, a foreigner looking for an authentic "American eating experience" wants to go where regular, everyday people go...and in America that's usually these types of chain restaurants.
About Denny's: believe it or not Denny's grand slam breakfast was one of the places that stood out in my husband's mind after his first high school trip to California.
I mean, diner food --in all its greasy goodness-- is an institution of American culture. We should be proud!

Dukey

Hooters is "where regular, everyday people go"???? and you were the ONLY woman there? Or were you the only woman there the men wern't slobbering all over?

bridezilla

Dukey,
I said I was the only woman PATRON. And yes, since I left my orange hotpants at home that day, I was the only woman not being slobbered over!
I don't think Hooters has a very high-end clientele. Don't you agree?

Viajero2

My German friends tell me they daydream about Sbarro's Pizza, Dunkin Donuts, and French's Mustard. Go figure.

stokebailey

Just so they come to enjoy the food, not just make mental notes about American obesity to amuse the folks back home.

Joe18

What's the surprise? The next time you're traveling, stop at the McDonald's. I've done this in Paris, Beijing, Prague, Madrid, Toledo, Berlin, etc., and I'll promise you that you'll meet the locals. I did it the first time, 20 years ago on the Champs Elysées, for the novelty of buying a beer at McDonalds, and learned that the restrooms are reliably free and clean in Europe (and later, China) as well. Next, in the mid 90s we found the same in Berlin and Prague, plus the Czech place had a good hot caramel sundae. Since then I've made it my place of choice for rest stops and occaissional soft drinks. I remember stopping at the one in Toledo as we arrived and left. On the first visit I had a group of school kids giggling (in a cute shy way) by my Spanish. However, if you're looking for lunch in Toledo, I'd suggest carcamusa at the Arts Cafe (in 2004 the one waiter was great--I wonder if he's still there?--and the food was good. The restrooms were fine in the Arts Cafe as well, and the penis and vagina symbols that distinguish gender are interesting if a little wierd).

RufusTFirefly

Good Lord, Sea Urchin! Putting the sweet and sour chicken ONTO the rice? My Asian in-laws would be scandalized.

It's amazing how people worldwide reject foods out of hand just because they aren't prepared exactly like what they get at home. Open your minds and tastebuds, everybody!

SeaUrchin

Hmmm, over the rice! Maybe that is what threw them over my tasty dish!
It was amusing to watch them try to be nice and polite and at the same time making every effort to even try it.

There is (or was) a Chinese restaurant near Sorrento, they would never set foot inside of it. I asked if it was because it was a bad restaurant and they had no idea, never having even approached it.

carrom

I recently posted a trip report in the US forum: "Italian couple back from New York". We stayed there a week over New Year's and went to loads of restaurants. We are both Italian. Would be interested to hear your comments. By the way, personally I wouldn't be seen dead in a MacDonald's but......I like Pizza Hut!!