Rex

Some time last year, I recounted my experience taking my grandmother (age 86) to NYC as a "practice" trip - - anticipating possibly taking her to Europe. I learned that while she is still fully capable of traveling, her walking endurance is very limited - - not shortness of breath or chest pain - - just muscles give out, even on level ground - - about 200-300 yards, for example.

I thought she had concluded that Europe would be too much for her.

But now, she has recently mentioned (told my dad this) that she might be interested for next year sometime after all. If I do put together such a thing, it might be with the plan that we use a wheel chair just to conserve her strength. She can walk perfectly fine - - the length of an aircraft, for example - - and even one flight of stairs - - slowly. But for distances like the entire length of an airport concourse, it only makes sense to get her off her feet.

I think that there are so many places that time on her feet will just kill the enjoyment - - Musee d'Orsay, for example - - 30 minutes on her feet will wear her out, whereas 2 hrs, in a wheelchair and she could really enjoy it.

Does anyone have relevant experience of traveling with an ambulatory person, but using a wheelchair as an "aid"? I envision traveling by minivan or sedan; I am hoping this can be a group of at least 4-6 - - if for no other reason than having someone to stand with her, while I deal with the car (a problem I learned in NYC, it bothered her to sit places alone, even for 5-10 minutes).

And I think that some of the trip will be simply places that can be enjoyed by driving through (Alsace comes to mind, for example).

I don't have a lot of expertise with GB or Ireland - - I think I will pick no more than 3 destinations - - and one or two of them English-speaking - - any suggestions?

I havent begun to pick her brain yet as to places that she might like to go - - though I am sure she will tell me to choose. In general, I think I will prefer smaller "cities" (though not necessarily villages) - - for example, Lisbon or smaller - - even smaller, like Ghent or Bruges come to mind as having a lot of appeal. What are equivalent cities in GB or Ireland? Kent? Canterbury?

I realize that this is a very open-ended fishing expedition question - - but that's the intrinsic nature of the possibilities.

Oh, and last of all - - the question in the heading of my message - - anyone know about renting wheelchairs for 1-2 weeks, starting at an airport? Or is it better to just rent in the US and take it along? Apparently, airlines will acommodate wheelcairs at no additional charge? This seems like such a simple question - - but I can't find a straightforward answer.

Thanks in advance,

Rex

SharonM

Personally, I would rent the wheelchair in the States since you will need it at the onset of your trip and throughout.
You shouldn't have much problem finding rentals at a hospital supply store. (or just look in the yellow pages)
Rex,
Depending on where you end up, you may find a mini-van hard to find or price prohibitive...
One thing to keep in mind. Many cities are NOT wheelchair friendly...ie. Lisboa,whose steep hills, cobblestones and sidewalk tiles are difficult to walk, much less push a wheelchair on.


sam

SharonM

oops, one more thing.
Yes, you may gate check the wheelchair domestically or internationally at no extra charge, and it does not count as a piece of luggage...at least with most airlines. (double check though)


sam

scigirl

I think there has been at least one past forum on travelers with disabilities. You can search old forums from the main travel talk page (the page where you chose United States, Europe, etc.). I recall that there were some useful posts and also people posted links to websites with information on traveling in a wheelchair. My recollection is that Europe is not as wheelchair accessiable as we are used to in the US.

Susan

My husband had back surgery prior to a trip to Paris last year. We rented a wheelchair in Paris for about two weeks. The arrangements were made by the hotel once we arrived and the wheelchair was delivered almost immediately. We found that we had priority and could get to the front of the line at the Louvre and other museums because of the wheelchair. There were no sights we missed - we went up the Eiffel Tower, took trams (although I had to lift the chair on-board and he had to get himself up the steps). The only problem we encountered was the street curbs are quite steep and he would have to get out of the wheelchair to step up and down the curbs. Other than that, he didn't have to walk at all. We had thought about renting the wheelchair here but were advised that because the shape doesn't fit neatly into the baggage compartment, the chair could easily be damaged in transit. At the airports in Paris (we flew into Orly and out of DeGaulle), we were able to get wheelchair assistance from the airline gate out to the taxi's. Good luck!

elaine

perhaps one of these websites will help
For travelers with disabilities:
www.fhwa.dot.gov
www.access-able.com
www.jsrd.or.jp/dinf_us/disability_
resources/travel.htm
www.everybody.co.uk
www.disabilitytravel.com
www.flyingwheelstravel.com
www.jpmarketing.co.uk/holidays travel in the UK and Ireland for disabled travelers
www.dales-discovery.co.uk escorted tours of the UK, Ireland, Italy, and France for disabled travelers
www.wheelchair-travel.co.uk disabled travelers in the UK
Travel tips and discounts on travel for seniors:
www.senior com
www.seniors.com
www.aarp.org
www.specialtytravel.com

rand

Around here the Red Cross is the source for wheelchairs. People donate uneeded chairs and walkers (parents gone) and they rent them out at a very low cost to those that need. Cambridge, Ely and York are flat as pancakes. Don't even think about Lincoln (look up a photo and you will see why). I think London would be hell in a wheelchair, but then most big cities probably are.

wes fowler

Rex,
RADAR, the Royal Association for Disability and Rehabilitation, located in London has a website with a bookshop listing a number of publications dealing with travel and the handicapped. Check www.radar.org.uk

Interesting that you mention Bruges and Ghent. The Belgian Red Cross, Croix-Rouge, CEPIATH, Rue Joseph Stallaert 1-Bte 1060 Brussels, tel: 02 6 47 10 10 ext 316 has a number of access guides relating to Belgium.

Rex

Thanks, Sharon and Wes - - I feel certain your advice about renting here, and taking with is best. Perhaps this "fact" is clear-cut to those who are "confined" to wheelchairs - - but even though I travel a lot, I just never knew the rules about this, especially for international travel. And websites with straightforward answers have eluded me - - at least so far. The Delta airlines website came closest to a clear answer. Even that website referred more to motorized wheelchairs - - what was unclear was chair use for those who CAN walk.

As for Lisbon, I only know Lisbon a tiny bit... but the more modern part of Lisbon seemed like it could be reasonably friendly - - I have never been in the old town. One thing I thought she might find appealing is the bullfight(s) - - which is 99% about pageantry and horsemanship - - and none about killing a bull. I loved going to the bullfight on my one short to visit to Lisbon a few years ago.

One twist in all this, is that I think my grandmother will not necessarily appreciate the great cathedrals of Europe - - based on her reaction to St Patricks in NYC. Part of the (southern) baptist prejudice against catholics, I fear (hers, not mine). she said "you know, you dont worship all this ''stuff'' - - you worship God". So the humanism of belgium and netherlands might have appeal over the "romance (language) countries" (F, E, P, I).

Still - - i think that westminster abbey - - or chartres - - or cologne - - who wouldnt love these? - - it has nothing to do with religion for me.

I have plenty of time to decide - - I may just make a "scouting trip" in the off, off season to focus on what would and would not work well.

Further input from others will be greatly appreciated.

BJ

I want to thank Elaine for taking the time to post so many websites dedicated to disabled travel!
Wow -- what a good list.

KT

Without commenting on your grandmother's religious bias, I'll just point out FYI that Belgium, unlike the Netherlands, is a predominantly Catholic country.

Rex

Okay, thanks KT for the clarification - - I guess I was thinking that in Ghent and Bruges, just to mention those two (and maybe Antwerp - - I have never been there) - - there is plenty of appeal - - and it isnt based on any of Europe's "great" cathedrals"... And I dont think that prejudice is the right word for how she might react - - maybe more like "not into it".

KT

Okay, now I'm really straying from the topic of wheelchair travel, but I see your point about Gent and Brugge and I heartily endorse Antwerpen as well. It's bigger and more urban in feel than Gent, but also extremely enjoyable, with some interesting small museums (as well as some bigger ones) that aren't too physically taxing to see at one go. And of course, if your grandmother likes chocolate, beer(!?), mussels, or frites...

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Emily

Rex, just a thought about wheelchairs... It's a give-and-take with lightweight v.s. folding/collapsible. The lightest ones have rigid frames but the ones that collapse for easy storage/transport are heavier generally. And remember that one can build muscle at any age, and endurance can usually be improved as well. A pre-trip exercise program (check with MD first of course) may be useful for your grandmother!

Caitlin

A few points about travel with wheelchair:

1. Air travel: mention the wheelchair when you make reservations. You will be boarded first, and get off the plane last; if your grandmother can walk, she'll use the wheelchair just to the door of the plane. It will be checked at the gate, and will be the last thing in and the first thing out of the hold. Damage is possible but not likely, so you may want to consider whether you can get some kind of insurance for your rental. One way to minimize the liklihood of damage is to remove any parts that are removable (armrests, foot pedals, cushion) before boarding; stick them in a bag and take them with you. The guarantees are greater on domestic airlines, since by law they cannot charge extra or count the wheelchair or any of its parts/accessories in your baggage limit.
2. As far as the type, you'll want only the folding type, so that it can easily be stowed in the car's trunk. That said, try to rent the lightest-weight one you can, and make sure it is properly fitted.
3. Europe is not as advanced as the US in disability law, but some countries do try. In Paris, for instance, all the government-run museums and monuments are mostly accessible, although many are not wholly so (and the Musee D'Orsay is entirely accessible, and most of Notre Dame, St-Chapelle, and the Chartres Cathedral are accessible without stairs.) In Paris, also, as the poster above stated, people in wheelchairs skip to the front of the line and they and their (one) companion usually are not chrged entrance fees. For Paris, there is a booklet (in English) available from the French Tourist Office (in NY or LA) that will be very useful if you choose to go there.
4. Do avoid cities or parts of town with lots of cobblestones. Difficult to walk on if you're frail, and very uncomfortable to roll over in a wheelchair.
5. Remember to make sure that your hotels have elevators!
6. Elaine's lit of web sites is good; I would add the travel archives at www.newmobility.com, which give lots of good general advice, some on specific destinations, and also include articles outline the requirements for airlines. Also, use the Yahoo home page's travel search; there is a subcategory for disabilities with many links--look especially for the disabled travel links listing, which will take you to a page with country-specific links.

Rex

Thanks, Caitlin and others

Because my grandmother is not "in" a wheelchair, I guess it is fair to say that I am "low on the learning curve" about wheelchairs. One thing I have read about on some of the websites listed here (similar list, but not identical at www.about.com under Europe travel, Accessible) is about "pneumatic" wheels (or should they be called tired?)

I can pictue that there must be wheel options that are as different from each other as big "knobby" mountain bikes and little "skinny" racing bikes. I will start doing some further research on the rental issue here come Monday. Presumably, the wheel types are available independently from the frame types (lighter, heavier, folding/collapsible, frame design etc).

The advice here is very useful - - but can I re-direct the subject to choices of destinations? Curiously, I don't see the wheel chair used as much for getting from pojnt A to B as withIN "big" places (museums, palaces, for example). I think I am (pushy/assertive enough and) reasonably skilled at getting the car right up to the front door (even if it means moving it a distance away to park it); with others traveling along, she is very patient about waiting until I return from parking.

Thanks to all,

Rex

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for more input

mike

My grandmother is 89, and has just gone past long foreign trips.

However, we always got the airline to give her a lift from checkin to pier and vice versa. That works great - you get fast tracked through immigration etc, and someone can go along to keep her company. Check with your airline.

Last summer, we took her out for the day to Stourhead, a very pleasant C18 coutry house and garden here in England. We borrowed a wheelchair when we arrived - no charge. As we walked round the lake, two young girls ran past. Suddenly one of them stopped, spun round, pointed at my grandmother and shrieked "Look, Mummy, WHITE HAIR. I didn't know you could have white hair!" I was a bit worried that my grandmother would do herself a mischief, she laughed so much. Warmed the cockles of me'eart, so it did.

PS As "pusher", I got in free, which was a nice surprise.

Rex

To the top - - for Patricia, whose husband cannot walk much.