wes fowler

I haven't posed a question in quite a while. Got one for you now. It's prompted by some of the recent posts regarding "What's your favorite European City" or what do you love about Paris or London. What, in your mind, is the most extraordinary country in Europe? Why? What is it that is so distinctive about your choice that it stands out above all other countries of Europe? I have my own ideas that I'll express when I come back here in a couple of days. In the interim, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Kathleen

My vote would have to go for Ireland. Spectacular scenery, wonderfully friendly people. An ancient history, just waiting to be discovered. While the roads and signage aren't the greatest, the country is easy to get around, and accomodation plentiful. There's just something about the country and people that calls you back.

kam

Italy because it's a country of regions--all interesting and all quite different. Think about the fact that the unification of Italy didn't happen very long ago and before that it was a collection of city states and owned by various other foreign countries. All of this in a fairly small geographic area. Wonderfully interesting.

kk

Ok, I pick England. And here's why. I like places where you can go and pretend you are back several centuries. In England you can do that a lot. They are so creative and cherishing of their fabulous past. <BR>Take what happened after WWII. When the old country houses couldn't be kept up (escalating taxes and so on), the landed gentry one by one started opening up their houses so that vistors' revenues could help the old houses be maintained. Imagine what guts and fortitude it took the first peer to do that, to open his home. Shocking. <BR>And uses for country homes keep proliferating. Those places haven't disappeared, and I for one am very grateful. <BR>Another thing...the small villages are quaint and idyllic, and the churches are beautiful and still used. The people are polite and friendly. And wonderfully eccentric, sometimes. <BR>I wasn't around back then, but I also have the impression that the English didn't whine and complain and bemoan their fates much after WWII, when things were pretty bad, from the bombing and rationing, things like that. Real pluck, I call that. And bully for them. <BR>Actually, the older I get, the more of an anglophile I am becoming. <BR>

BOB THE NAVIGATOR

OK Wes--you sly old fox--this one should <BR>get some interesting viewpoints. You know my answer---Bella Italia of course. <BR>But you ask why ! I guess that depends on what you are seeking in your travels. <BR>For me that is basically 3 things: <BR>HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE <BR>AWE INSPIRING SCENERY <BR>INTERESTING PEOPLE/CULTURE <BR> <BR>Who can beat Italy for history. From the Etruscans to the Romans to the splendid era known as the Renaissance-- <BR>it all happened here. <BR> <BR>As for natural beauty, anyone who has seen Lake Como, the hills of Tuscany, the fabulous Dolomites, and the Amalfi <BR>coast must agree it is incomparable. <BR>Only Greece can argue this point. <BR> <BR>You throw in a most energetic,fun-loving <BR>and friendly people---who happen to offer great food---and you have the <BR>trifecta. France can challenge the food, <BR>England the history, Switzerland and Greece the natural beauty, but no where <BR>do you experience it all in one place. <BR>I rest my case ! <BR> <BR>

Al

Interesting question that commands some thought. Well, I would have to vote for Poland. Think if America was almost completely reduced to piles of bricks and ruins. No public services. No schools. Occupied by a foreign and brutal army. Economically tied hand and foot to its conquerors. With most of its intelligentsia executed or in prison. Ruled by a political party under the thumb of its larger neighbor. And within a generation it became economically more vibrant than any of its neighbors, including its conquerors. Preserved what it could that had not been devastated by war and neglect. Completely rebuilt its razed capital city and many other places that had been destroyed. Reopened its schools and universities. Strengthened its currency without losing its new-found freedoms. And opened its doors wide to new technologies. And sent its primate to lead the world. Some country! That's Poland.

Rex

To not have someone speak for France here would be - - incroyable! <BR> <BR>So, c'est moi.

Dawn

My vote goes to ........Wales. The beautiful coast, mountains, friendly people and less tourists than other places makes this country a gem. Been to many other countries but this one holds a special place in my heart.

elvira

Good one, wes. As much as I love France, I have to go with Ireland. <BR> <BR>Any country that has Little People, a warrior queen, a warrior poet, and Guinness....and all on one small island....well, it grabbed me by the throat and didn't let go.

Lee

Wes: Another good thought provoking query. <BR> <BR>You probably figure that I'll say Germany as mine. <BR> <BR>All of those fantastic castles, along the middle Rhine, the Moselle, and King Ludwig's famous three; the beautiful churches of Cologne, Steingaden, Ettal and so many others; The breathtaking landscapes of Garmisch and Berchtesgaden; The towns of Bacharach, Rothenburg, Swabisch Gmund and others that take you back in time; Where the north is so like Holland and the south so like Austria, but all of it Germany. The people, the food, the places and all of it with the world's best beer. <BR> <BR>I always think in terms of when I am going back...

lola

Gotta go with Italia-- blessed in every way, from the Austria-like Adage to the tip of the boot. Nos surprise there. A sleeper, and more varied than most realize, with five languages and varied cultures and scenery--and Barcelona-- is Espana.

John

Russia. (IMO it's the most extraordinary country in Asia, too.) <BR> <BR>It's almost a different league. Polyglot cultural heritage, heights of passion and art and suffering not equaled anywhere, a landscape of – honestly – infinite variety, great cities and museums and churches and… and… <BR> <BR>Visiting Russia can be tough love. There are ghosts about and much to remind Westerners of how little things can pile up to big differences. The food is an acquired taste, and I don’t know what they were thinking about when they invented kvass. But then you go to the circus or the ballet or the Hermitage or the Leningrad Siege memorial, and you’re reminded that this is a powerful, complex, sometimes weird, often ugly, but ultimately fascinating and wonderful place – in a word, extraordinary. <BR>

carolyn

Rule Brittainia! What other country has given so much of its culture to the world--including the USA.

dan woodlief

I haven't even been to Italy yet (in the works?), but it is my choice anyway. For many of the reasons others have stated: the variety, the natural beauty, the food, the art, the people, the history, etc. I imagine it photographs better than most too. My second choice would be France, which I have visited.

Thyra

Alright, I know I picked Dublin as only my third favorite city... I am with Elvira, how does that always happen? Since I used to live in Ireland and am IMO blessed enough to actually BE Irish, I have to put my vote in for the Emerald Isle...

kk

Dan, dear Dan, I think this is the umpteenth post where you confess you've not yet been to Italy. I do hope a trip there is in the works. <BR>Maybe we fodorites could chip in for the plane ticket. I always enjoy your comments, so sane and nice, and knowledgeable about photography.

wes fowler

I must first apologize for posing a loaded question, but I had an ulterior motive that I'll reveal shortly. The key word in my question was "extraordinary" and there truly is only one extraordinary European country. Assuredly, Kathleen's Ireland is scenic, but so too is Austria's Tyrol, the Alpine ranges of Switzerland and Germany, the fjords of Norway. Certainly Kam's Italy is a relatively new country with the demise of its city-states, but so too is Germany; Belgium is "young" as well at 170 years. The villages of Kay's England are matched in Wales, Ireland and Upper Bavaria. The history of BOB's Italy is matched by Greece and Turkey; its delightful citizenry is as charming as that of Kathleen's Ireland; its cuisine on a par with France. The stoicism and initiative of Al's choice in rebuilding Poland and its economy parallels the citizenry of Rotterdam who after World War II gave priority to restoring its port facilities over the creature comforts of home and hearth. The castles of Lee's Germany are matched in their majesty by the chateaux of France. I wonder if the beleaguered citizens of John's Russia differ significantly from the long oppressed peoples of the Balkans who like the Russians are haunted by ghosts of their past. With the exceptions of Al and John's recommendations, all of the responses seem to mirror, not extraordinariness, but popularity and familiarity. France and Italy seem to dominate the subject of queries to this forum; England and Germany are not far behind and Ireland increasingly is making its presence known. But are any the truly extraordinary country of Europe? I think not. <BR> <BR>In 325 B.C., one of history's earliest "tourists", Pythias of Massilia, described this extraordinary country as "the end of the earth". Four hundred years later, Pliny the Elder wrote "here a miserable people live on high hills or mounds that they have made and on which they have built their huts. They are like sailors when the tide is high and like castaways when the waters have again retreated." What is this place and what makes it so extraordinary? It's the Netherlands, 90% of which (over 1,700,000 acres) didn't exist two thousand years ago. Netherlanders can rightly say "God made the world, but the Dutch made the Netherlands". Hundreds of years of effort, millions of man-hours and over 2000 miles of dunes and dikes have created a truly extraordinary country. Centuries of arduous dedication and effort in building and equally importantly, maintaining the physical growth of the Netherlands through land reclamation have produced an extraordinary citizenry. Harshly puritanical during the Calvinist days when Dutch fleets dominated maritime trade and brought untold wealth to the nation, the Netherlanders now have one of the most socially liberal of all societies. Two events, spanning the centuries attest to the nature of the Netherlander. Despite centuries of attempting to hold back the sea, citizens willingly opened dikes in the mid 1500's to flood and rout the attacking armies of Philip II's Spain. After World War II the citizens of totally devastated Rotterdam voted to rebuild its harbor before addressing the needs of housing; reestablishing the economic self-sufficiency a rebuilt harbor would afford took priority over comfort. The Netherlands, with the ambition and will to create itself, is now as a result of its involvement in the Benelux trade organization, a progenitor of the European Economic Community and what may one day become a United States of Europe. <BR> <BR>Have I made my case? If so, why is the Netherlands so low on the priority lists of tourists and travelers? Why does it warrant only a two or three day stay in Amsterdam and little else but a side trip perhaps to Haarlem or Delft? I wonder. <BR>

JCK

Any of the Nordic countries!

kk

Wow, Wes. That was neat. You made a persuasive argument, but I bet there are some minds still unswayed.

Sheila

Wes <BR> <BR>Two things:- firstly, dealing with your most recent posting, and in fear of being controversial, the answer to why the Netherlands is low on most travellers' priority lists is...it's boring. Nice; but boring. Brilliant engineering, and we all love the little Dutch boy, but, to many of us (rightly or wrongly) the engineering won't grab us. I don't collect train numbers either, although some would say an addiction to this board is as bad as trainspotting. <BR> <BR>Secondly, I had been thinking about your question quite a bit this week and had intended to post this anyway. What's ordinary? <BR> <BR>My point is that most places are unique- nowhere else is quite like the place you happen to be. So whilst I can tell you about "most special", I think "most extraordinary" is a nullity. So call me a pedant! I don't care (much)