2012moving

I'm becoming confused. I plan to stay in Bern and use it as a base for a lot of my train travel in Switzerland. I want to visit Geneva. And I want to travel the train route from Bern to Luzern through Interlaken separate from the Bern to Geneva trip.

The Golden Pass train trip appears to run:
Route: (Geneva Montreux > Zweisimmen > Interlaken > Brünig Pass > Lucerne (> Zurich) and vice versa.
Would I cover this exact same route myself Bern to Geneva, and Bern to Luzern via Interlaken? Is it a different rail line from the regular rail lines? I realise this would mean I could not book a panoramic car but is there any other difference?
Thanks

PalenQ

Yes there is loads of difference - the GP route goes via idyllic Alpine valleys and the final descent into or climb out of Lake Geneva is spectacular as the train creeps down thru vineyards to the lake.

the mainline Bern to Geneva is fairly ho-hum - no Alpine scenery up close and only fleeting views of the lake.

Now if your question is to take regular trains over the same route the GP plies then yes there are about hourly local trains over the whole route Spiez-Zweissimmen-Montgreux and though they do not have panoramic cars they have large windows and the exact same scenery sans the recorded commentary and hostess service and fancy doilies on seats, etc - I actually enjoy the regional trains more because the official GP trains are typically chock full with bus tour groups whilst on local trains you can easily move around from side to side as the scenery dictates, etc as many seats are typically empty.

Ditto for the GP route Interlaken-Ost via the Brunig Pass to Lucerne - you have official GP train and about hourly locals over the exact same rails sans the trappings of the official GP train. And again the mainline route Bern to Lucerne would not even go via Interlaken and for Switzerland would be ho-hum versus the dramatic Alpine scenery of going up and over the Brunig Pass with the use of cog wheels because the climbs and descents are so so prodigious

Again as on other thread these fantastic sites IMO may shed more on these questions - www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

and IMO the Observation Panoramic cars are a novelty but the scenery on these routes is mainly out the side windows with only the sky above - nice hype to sell those trains but IMO not worth re-arranging your schedule to do.

2012moving

Have just read this one. Mainline Bern to Geneva I see as a means of getting from A to B and I would use it to get to Geneva to see what I want to see there and return. I like what you are saying about being able to get up and move about to check out scenery on the regional trains. I would prefer that myself.

Would the regional train creep Spiez-Zweissimmen-Montreux or at least do it slow enough to enjoy the view?

PalenQ

Both the GP and regional trains move slowly over the route due to rugged terrain and lots of twists and turning so yes either train will move slow enough to enjoy the views. The GP train may do the overall distance quicker only because it doe snot stop nearly as much as the regional trains do but otherwise IME move at about the same speeds.

Note with all that rail travel be sure to investigate a Swiss Pass where you can just hop on any train any time in Switzerland with few exceptions (Montreux to Zweissimmen GP trains demand seat reservations before boarding) - all your other trains you can just hop on - a pass gives you freedom to alter plans without thinking of cost and never have to wait in line to get tickets, etc. In Bern on a nice day - take the train to Interlaken-West hop on one of the lake boats on Lake Thun - laze outside perhaps picnic and wine, etc and get intoxicated on the fantastic views of the ice-girdled Jungfrau Massif awesomely rising high above the lake. Get off at Thun, look around that lovely city and take the train back to Bern - example of how on a nice sunny day you could do something like this in late afternoon even and not think about cost with a pass - passes are valid on many boats such as those on Lake Thun and Lake Lucerne and Lake Geneva and many rivers and other lakes. Also valid on all city trams and buses and postal buses in the countryside at get free entry to over 400 Swiss Museums such as the astound Paul Klee museum in Bern - highly acclaimed for its architectural style as the art inside - about a $15-20 value per many museums.

greg

Bern to Geneve route does have a scenic section when the train runs through vineyards along lake Geneve.

PalenQ

Yes every train I've been on in Switzerland I would call scenic as the country as a whole is really scenic - in the Alpine regions or not - lots of lakes and just love those hills dotted by cows and flower-bedecked chalet-style wooden houses - the whole country is scenic - so yes even the mainline to Geneva I would call scenic, compared to much of the rest of Europe.

2012moving

Sounds to me like I should plan to spend one month each year in Switzerland relaxing. Have to win Lotto first. On the other hand perhaps there is some Swiss farmer who wants to swap houses with me and I will look after his Swiss Browns. I know how to care for cattle and would welcome the idea of them all having bells. Only our most troublesome ones had bells!
When I think I have worked up an itinerary for Switzerland I shall post it for comments. You may hear more questions from me though in the meantime.
Au revoir
Auf Widersehen
Arrivederci

PalenQ

2012 - do you still cut hay by hand for your bovines - I see this all the time in Switzerland, one of the world's most prosperous countries - I think it must be some government subsidy to keep farmers working this way so tourists will think it so romantic - but to think of Swiss farmers in Alpine areas cutting hay by hand - something is hokey about that. Would love to see how much subsidies they receive - but I do think it policy to retain a rural look in this way. Free market would no doubt eliminate any cows in Switzerland and that would be too bad IMO so bravo to Swiss government and taxpayers for forking out seemingly huge subsidies to maintain this old-fashioned look - and that is why you literally do see cows everywhere and hear cow bells tinkling everywhere!

2012moving

No hay for our bovines. They ran around 500acres of rugged, wooded mountain range in QLD Australia. Which is why the miscreants had a bell! We would not see them for months. The bell also helped us to find all of them as we herded them up on foot before they calved. Otherwise the dingoes got the calves. What different lives we all lead in this world of ours.
Austria has wonderful doe eyed cows too.

PalenQ

Well most Swiss cows also grace I believe up in higher climes during summer - well many do not all because I always see plenty in summer dappled around places like Grindelwald - farmers cut hay or whatever the cut for cow chow by sickle to I guess feed the cows in winter.

You may want to go to Gimmelwald, a farming village with loads of cows - you can in summer when bovines are away munching grass at higher altitudes even Sleep in the Straw - the name of o hostel where folks in summer sleep in straw in cow barns!

PalenQ

Oops just read the Sleep in the Straw at Gimmelwald is defunct.

But anyway you may want to visit Gimmelwald if interested in cows and dairy farming as this village traditionally has existed off it - today still a small farming village out in the middle of nowhere with awesome ice-girdled Alps all around - a really astounding and unique place - there is a hotel there if you want to stay overnight and if clear see more stars than you ever imagined were in the sky.

2012moving

Thanks. Had intended to visit Gimmelwald and now you have made it even more interesting.

PalenQ

http://www.gimmelwald.ch/

Take the picture tour to see why this is a unique place, cows or not and in summer cows will be gone up to higher climes.

2012moving

Thanks PalenQ for http://www.gimmelwald.ch/. What a fabulous set of photos and informative text.Feel like I'm there already.

PalenQ

thank you - it is a special place that many folks seem only to pass thru on the cable way from Schilthorn/Murren down to the valley - changing gondolas (if I recall right) but not getting off to see this totally unique awesome place - for the views if nothing else - I found it udderly delightful!