sandy c

hi,<BR><BR>werwer, i think keith means bladder control underwear. you know those disposable ones that have pads for bladder control.<BR><BR>keith, when you say "you women and your stuff" all i have to say is (cough grin)you men and your gadgets. my boyfriends toy's weighed more than my makeup bag did.<BR><BR>incidentially, that bladder control disposable weighs 4 ounces more than a pair of my underwear. if she takes 7 pair and i take 7 pair of mine her's weight double. I can't imagine her going out and buying 2 or 3 at a time.<BR><BR>i stick with my own....i'm probably gonna have to wear the other's soon enough...later than sooner if i am optimistic (big grin!)

Traveler

Traveler again. Sandy, why so defensive to the responses of your list? If you want to lug around that much baggage do it! Have a ball. It is a lot, no matter your protestations otherwise, and if you beleive you require all of that fine. <BR>Personallly I let go of some things while I'm traveling. I don't bring every piece of hair apparatus I own, though I use 3 brushes at home. I don't go through the whole make up routine nor do I bring the amount I use at home. No matter how many kinds of clothes I bring, when I look at my pictures I'm always, always wearing the exact same outfit. I'm turning 40 soon so youth has nothing to do with it. What I have noticed is that I'm much less concerned about what my looks when I get back from a trip. I travel to see stuff, eat stuff and buy stuff. I don't want to spend an hour and a half a day getting ready. I figure as long as my clothes are clean, my hair shines and I don't smell, I'm doin' OK. I can also say I am rarely cursing the weight of my luggage.

Ellen

LOL, "Traveler," that post's a keeper!

StCirq

I guess it depends in part on how much you care about how you look while traveling. I never aim to be a fashion plate, but I'm generally traveling in rural Europe where to be a fashion plate would be out of place. One lipstick (if that)is enough makeup for me, one nice outfit will do for an evening out, and one pair of nice shoes (not high heels but practical, leather mini-heels maybe) are all I need to complement an outfit of black pants and silk shirt and jacket. I still contend it can all be packed in a 22" roll-on. I HATE having too much luggage. I HATE sweating getting on and off trains. I HATE having to find a luggage cart at train stations. I HATE being the last in line at the taxi station at a train station because everyone else, who had LOTS less luggage than me, got there first. In sum, I HATE lugging loads of *stuff* around with me. What the heck for? I can be perfectly socially acceptable at a party or dinner or whatever with one or two items from my packing list. It's not as though I'm going to look like a fashion freak because I didn't bring 80 pounds of luggage.

sandy c

hi traveler,<BR><BR>you guys are a blast! hey i didn't realize i was sounding defensive? was I? I thought i took some of the extremely idiotic comments very gracefully and with humor. <BR><BR>am i the only one here that ever responds to others posts or are those of us that visit only occasionaly suppose to kind of bow away in silence at some of your magnificent orations. <BR><BR>fact is, I felt the other way. that for some reason, my post offended you and others. there seems to be this feeling by some travelers that you have to suffer, scrimp, and simply do without or make do with as little as possible. kind of like that is something to be proud of. miserly even. i can't really understand why? <BR><BR>i do disagree with you, traveler, i do not think it is alot of stuff. I think it a very moderate list and very versitile one. of course i could get by with 1/2 of it, hells bells, give anyone one change and a bar of soap and you COULD make do, you know, but why would i want to and more important, why does it bother you or ellen that i do not want to. open minds people, we are all different and do not appreciate the same virtues...(cough) or vices, depending on which side of fence you sit. <BR><BR>by the way, I have that "getting ready to leave the house" down to an exact science and can do it, with makeup, in about 20 minutes. just because you use makeup, a brush or two, doesn't mean you spend alot of time getting ready, assumptions...tsk...tsk..assumptions.<BR><BR>me, i always thought being frugal and being parsimonious just a breath hair apart.<BR><BR>my point is, simply with moderation why limit yourself to the point of self inflicted pain. (which is my picture when i see all of you having to wash things every other day on vacation).<BR><BR>why can't we just accept each other's habits and wants and needs...you like frugality...i like moderation. i accept that. do we need to say more?<BR><BR>

HenryD

Hot thread alert!!<BR><BR>Sandy, now you're not only being defensive, your posts have finally begun to be offensive, even though they weren't before, since you're stating that other people's comments are "extremely idiotic". <BR><BR>Everyone else seems to be willing to let you lug along whatever you want. They HAVE accepted your habits, wants, needs, etc. Lighten up and accept theirs. Some people would rather take less stuff and wash it, others like you would rather carry more. Let it rest.<BR>

sandy c(new bern)

excuse me, henry? is it,<BR><BR>now i have a problem, because you basically told me to be quiet, right? as with my last post, I was actually finished and fine with everything until my explaination or debate got categorized by traveler as "defensive".<BR><BR>why post on this board if you can't speak freely. what you and other read as defensive, i consider simply debating or explaining my point. that is allowed still?<BR><BR>I used to post quite a bit here, but everytime i do lately, for some reason people read too much into what i say. or try to read some kind of emotion that is simply not there.<BR><BR>however, sorry that the comment about the "idiotic comments" offended, but it refers to the one about maternity underwear. I am sorry i did not clarify that one. <BR><BR>what bothers me the most lately on this board and scares quite a few people away are a core group of people that simply will not tolerate dissention or debate. and if you are not with the program, "less is better" you are a "fashion plate" or even just debating gets called on another thread "a catfight". <BR><BR>my point was simply this. on this board if you disagree and try to explain what you believe in or correct an assumption by clarifying are you considered defensive, having a fight, or simply debating your issue? maybe i am dense, but i just don't get it lately.<BR><BR>

xxx

sandy, I think you don't understand the principles of debating. Even after people acknowledged that everyone is entitled to their opinion, you kept stating the same points over and over, insisting on others accepting your point of view. <BR><BR>As you yourself just said, you have been having problems communiating on the boards. Consider the possibility that it's you.

Keith

Sandy C, without getting too graphic, the undies here don't have the "bladder control" bit you're thinking of (and before you ask I've just become a dad so my wife has me well educated in the maternity necessities!) They're just like a soft cotton but made of paper (don't ask me how) so you can just chuck them out when you're done with them.<BR><BR>As for what you want to pack, take what YOU want to take and ignore what others say. I usually pack more clothes than I actually wear on holiday - but it always means I have the option of wearing them if I want to. OK, so it makes your case heavier, but I assume you are an intelligent person and won't pack so much you can't lift the case!<BR><BR>PS on the hair dryer front, if you're staying in B&Bs in Britain there's a possibility that they won't have hairdryers in the rooms, so if you've got a small one you might as well put it in.

janis

There are other types of disposable underwear besides maternity ones. Check out www.packinglight.com. They carry some really neat disposible briefs and panties. I usually take one package of 5 pair - about the size of a small wallet. They are actually not bad - think cheap, thin cotton underwear when you were a kid. They are actually a type of paper - but don't feel like it at all. So I take maybe 3 pair of "real" underwear and a package of disposibles for 2 weeks and two packages for longer trips.

elvira

Those undies that Keith mentioned can be bought in the U.S. - Walgreen's used to sell them. Haven't found them there for about 2 years. They really are great for a road trip - they're made of that papery/felty/rayony stuff sort of like those Pledge Wipe-its; they actually are sturdy enough they can be hand-laundered. About the size of a tube of lipstick when rolled up. Magellan sells a variety, and there's a website (better prices than Magellan):<BR>http://www.jui-sheng.com/panty_main.html<BR><BR>For a month of traveling (vs hunkering down in one place for a month), a 22" rollaboard is all I would take. First off, August is warm, so you can pack lighter clothing - lightweight cottons and linens, smaller clothes (short sleeves take up less room than long sleeves, etc.), fewer clothes (no mittens, wool scarves, etc.). I take one tiny travel-sized bottle of shampoo in case my first couple of hotels are shampoo-challenged. If I run out of shampoo, and the hotels are bereft, I can always buy some. I take only a small tube of toothpaste and buy if I run out. Sample size lipstick, pressed powder, small blush, Clinique travel powder brush - if I get bored with my choices, I can always buy something in a pharmacy or department store. I take no guidebooks, just my own notes on notebook paper in a three prong folder. Like St Cirq and others suggested, take a collapsible duffel or similar bag for shipping home or checking on your return flight all your dirty clothes and non-breakables. You can always buy one - I've bought a couple of inexpensive bags in Paris for about $10 each.<BR><BR>Even the lightest, smallest piece of luggage becomes an anvil after two weeks - why start out with one?<BR><BR>Okay, girls, what is this thing with feast or famine? We have two choices only? Be fashionable (only with lots of luggage) or look like a schlubb (only way you can look with limited luggage)? Can we NOT be a little more creative than that? With a little work and thought, I'm convinced we can look oh-so-chic with minimal clothing and personal care products.

Ellen

Elvira, there's no need to look like a schlubb when traveling minimally. You take great-looking outfits, but fewer of them! <BR><BR>I take a pair of dressy black pants, they go everywhere, a matching jacket, and a couple of good-looking knit tops, sweater, all coordinated (personally, I'm happy in black). I feel no need for variety, since I'm seeing new people and places every day!<BR><BR>Certainly, it's not a black-and-white lots-versus-minimal thing, but apparently some of us have found a system we're happy with and just can't understand why it doesn't make everyone else happy too. I think we minimalists just give a higher priority to packing just a carry-on that we can easily carry.

Lynne

<BR>.......you pack the same for one month<BR>as you would for one week.<BR><BR>

Travler

I agree w/Elvira, and Sandy C. ? that's the whole point of my side of the debate and it is a debate not an attack. Its difficult with print to communicate tone. I really did mean what Henry was trying to say and that is bring what you want. <BR>My further point is I disagree w/you, that's all, just disagree with you and I'm not being minimalist either, just not bringing the whole drug store. My suggestions were that perhaps we can cut back a little while traveling, and yes, I know I am now sounding defenesive. It seems to me though Sandy that by feeling attacked, you've beecome the attacker. I'm really just having fun trading ideas back and forth here. Take a paper bag, take paper undies, take a steamer trunk, bring curlers, curling irons, a ball gown, what ever you or anyone else wants to bring. As for me? I go light and still look ravishing!

Heather

Just a suggestion ... Chico's stores [www.chicos.com] offer a line called "Traveler's Knits" that fold up very, very tiny, don't weigh much, and never wrinkle. They come in good basic colors with fun prints in "add-ons" like tank tops, scarves, etc. The black, in particular, can *really* be dressed up, as the material is kind of slinky.<BR><BR>My mom swears by them and she looks terrific when she travels. The last trips was 3 weeks and she took a 20" rollon that weighed practically nothing.

sandy c

hi everyone,<BR><BR>had to work today...darn it. missed all the fun here.<BR><BR>I just finished reading your messages. I wanted to thank "Traveler" for posting again and elaborating. you are right, it is very hard to express tone on a message board. I try not to make assumptions, although the disposable panties slipped by me (sorry keith). elvira, is it extremely hard for me to see you using those..lololol..i just can't picture that. and my humor is not always taken as such. I did feel somewhat defensive on the last post and hope no one's feelings were hurt. <BR><BR>traveler, i agree with the spirit of what you are trying to say. it's good that we are happy with our own methods. I want to say that i am not trying to change your mind, i do realize that you and others posting on this message are also happy with their choices. I am simply elaborating why my suggestion may be usable for others out there reading this.<BR><BR>What's funny about all this, at least to me, if you guys think what I posted was alot you would never believe how much i actually did take the 1st two times out. remember one of the posts above that said "80 pds". that's what is was like for me. i actually owned one of those 40 inch duffle roll-on's with pullman and filled it to the brim for two weeks only. while i was able to lug it around myself (didn't need help), it was certainly a chore and it did slow me down. <BR><BR>using the 27 inch and taking 15-18 pieces of clothing is a major improvement. using the 22 inch was great if I wasn't purchasing much or staying less than a week.<BR><BR>finally, I do want to mention something here. elvira is probably the only person on this thread who has met me...(waving hi to elvira here...wish i was still in paris). I am so far away from being a fashion plate it is laughable.<BR><BR>I am a 42 year old full figured woman(which is a nicely politically correct understatement). In other words when europeans start talking about "fat overpaid americans" i duck if you know what i mean.<BR><BR>my point is that, being heavy:<BR><BR>1)many of the light weight clothes simply do not look good or slimming on a me. i need structure and tailored. I have found some great stuff online lately that gives the ellusion of tailored and that helps.<BR><BR>2)I try to be more careful with my makeup because it helps with the appearance. i won't elaborate, but i know most plus size women know what i mean. <BR><BR>3)I do change clothes more often because i perspire more.<BR><BR>what is good about my list? you can reduce it if you want to. you can take everything on the list and still be under 50 pounds. it's an alternative, and one that has worked for me.<BR><BR>thanks everyone.<BR><BR>sandy c<BR><BR><BR><BR>

Traveler

First of all a round of applause for Heather having the guts to chime in on the whole "WHAT TO PACK" debate. Really, kudos to you, ya' little risk taker. And to my new best friend Sandy, with further explanation your list makes much more sense,I can understand that you may not normally want to elaborate, though its too bad we don't always we feel we can. I have a friend who swears by a brand of jeans and their "great fit". Yeah, well she's also 25 and a size 1, trust me when I tell you that there is not enough pink light in the world to make those jeans flattering on me. I believe the debate for me is over and I must move on. "What's Wrong with the French?..." thread, here I come!

Topping

TTT

xxx

Very simple trick: Pack for 1-week (doesn't matter how long the trip is!).<BR><BR>Send laundry out, go to a self-service laundromatt (good way to mingle with locals), buy new clothes, and/or wash little stuff in the hotel sink with shampoo.