"answer to"--you do not get it--blowing waste on others is more rude !!

Hi Francine,<BR><BR>Btw, I just returned from Paris and had a wonderful time!<BR><BR>And I very much agree with you that people should do as they please. However, the problem is that when that act (no matter what it is) interferes with the rights or welfare of others.<BR><BR>This may be an odd comparison, but if I had the desire to sit in a restaurant and spray hairspray in all the air around me, shouldn't I be able to do that? Personally, I think not, because it would most likely bother everyone around me because they would have a hard time breathing! Yet, that's the way many non-smokers feel about tobacco smoke. If there were a way to smoke about the smoke interfering with non-smokers, I think most people couldn't care less if people smoked! But the fact is that one cannot smoke near others without physically affecting the non-smoker.<BR><BR>Hope that helps you understand the plight of non-smokers a bit better.<BR><BR>Jennifer<BR><BR>

Sorry, Jannifer, but this is a lousy comparision.<BR><BR>Just understand that smoking is accepted in Europe, regardless what you think, or feel about it in the US.<BR><BR>No one HAS to be in Europe, unless for European citizens, or those whose corporations sent them to Europe, no one HAS to eat in a smokers friendly restaurant, as no one has to use trains, so, if there's no obligation of being there, sorry, but you have just to accept how it is. It's your choice to be in Europe, so, love it as it is or leave it. No further reasoning is necessary, it's as simple as this.<BR><BR>

Hi Foreigner,<BR><BR>Just to clarify, I wasn't complaining! Though I will also admit that if everyone quit smoking in Europe, I wouldn't be disappointed. I was just trying to give an analogy to why some people take offense at smoking. It isn't that they are trying to interfere with the rights of people to do as they please but it's that the act of smoking is not a solo venture. Everything and everyone around the smoker is affected. <BR><BR>It's also true that there are a handful of restaurnts in Paris that are 100% non-smoking! Although I personally do not like smoke at all, I also ate in several restaurants that had no bans on smoking. I accept it as part of Europe.<BR><BR>Something that I also think is important to remember is that words often flow more freely from the fingers onto a keyboard than in "real" life. Sometimes people vent a bit more harshly here than they would in face-to-face dialogue.<BR><BR>Jennifer

Foreigner is right, the only one that have a right to fuss about Europeans smoking are Europeans, if you dont like it you dont have to come over here, how about a smokeless vacation in Bibleland TN. And about $$$ that americans spend in Europe, that's BS, most americans are cheapskates, booking hostels and eating lunch on the sidewalkes like animales.

Ah yes the Smoking Nazis strike again and again.<BR><BR>Guess what folks, they smoke a lot in Europe...get over it!

Francine, saying "stay the hell home" doesn't sound like very good manners to me. Americans don't have a monopoly on being sensitive to smoke. There must be Europeans who are this way as well and I'd bet that, in time, you'll notice anti-smoking forces becoming more and more powerful in European countries as well. In fact that's already happened, as I'm sure there are places in Europe where one used to be able to smoke -- in offices, etc. -- where one cannot smoke any more. Smokers have ruled for a long time. Now the tide is turning and smokers have to deal with it.<BR>_______________<BR><BR>Foreigner, the only reason Jennifer's comparison of blowing smoke in a restaurant to spraying hairspray in a restaurant is "lousy", is that smoking is an established habit. Other than that, it's a very valid comparison in that smokers would likely be just as annoyed by someone at a table next to them spraying hairspray during dinner, as some non-smokers are by people at a table next to them smoking during dinner. I'm sure smokers would whine about the hairspray just as they criticize non-smokers for whining about smoke.

Let's get one thing straight. If Francine wants to kill herself in her own home, so be it. But when it's in a public place, and she is hurting another human being, then that is not only impolite but inhumane. Francine can't pee in the gardens of the Eiffel tower b/c having her urine in an open public place is a health problem. If she wants to pee in her own garden, that's her call, but leave me outta it!

Jess,<BR><BR>Nice try!<BR><BR>However, while it may be illegal to "pee" in public it is not illegal to smoke in public. Therefore your comparison is akin to that of apples and oranges.<BR><BR>OTOH, WHEN it becomes illegal to smoke, or eat at NcDonalds because of too many fat grams, or (you name it) then you may have a case.<BR><BR>BTW, Uncle Sam is an ex smoker. And when in Europe I deal with it...so once again, either get over it or do not go to Europe!<BR><BR>Get it?

No, I am not going to "just get over it" when I go to Europe. Why do Europeans have the right to criticize our foreign policy? Because what one country does has an effect on other countries. Not one of you pro smokers have addressed that at all! <BR>The people who say "accept the situation as it is" and say Americans don't have the right to criticize Europe NEVER say Europeans don't have the right to criticize Americans. <BR><BR>Even though I don't always agree with their views - I DO think Europeans have the right to criticize American policies they do not agree with.<BR><BR>By the same token, I, and any other American has the right to criticize smoking because it is a health hazard.<BR><BR>Thank goodness for people who stood up for others rights or we would still have slavery, women would not vote, etc.

Do you think that number of responses is a good enough scoring system for troll success, or can you come up with another formula?

The way I look at it is we are VISITING their country, just as if I visited a smoker in their home in the USA or anywhere, I wouldn't expect them not to smoke just because I'm there visiting. I would just chose not to visit this person. I can't imagine expecting Europeans to change their ways just because we don't like their smoking habits!! For those who are too sensative to smoke etc., just stay home but don't show such rudeness towards people in their own home!! We are the visitors!! Yikes, lay off this persecution! <BR>Carol (a non-smoker)

I wonder if smokers in a restaurant would complain if the couple next to them was talking loudly, or belching constantly? <BR><BR>Forget about what kind of behavior a restaurant allows, or does not allow. Instead, think about what kind of behavior is well-mannered, or ill-mannered. Why would it be considered ill-mannered for people to talk loudly, or belch constantly (which, presumably, would be a great annoyance to those around them), but not for people to blow smoke out into the air (which would, undoubtedly, be a great annoyance to others as well)? Why isn't smoking around other people simply considered bad manners? <BR><BR>

Carol, I do have a few friends and relatives that smoke ( and I am gently trying to get them to quit). They are wonderful people in that when ANYONE visits their house, they ask if you mind them smoking. If I will be at their house for a long time, they will go outside to smoke.<BR><BR>Carol, if someone visits your house and has heart problems and cannot eat fatty beef, are you going to still serve steak for dinner and tell them "too bad, eat it, starve, or leave"? I hope not!<BR><BR>Manners are a two way street. It takes compromise on both sides. Since this is a world recognized health issue and there ARE regulations against not smoking in public places in many European nations, I don't see why they are not enforced

"Why can't smoking around others simply be considered bad manners?"<BR><BR>Because, Capo, to smokers, those fumes are the nectar of the Gods, mother's milk, ambrosia, raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. <BR> <BR>By the way, ever noticed how the whiskers on kittens are longer in Europe?<BR><BR>

"Uncle Slam" should stop reading the Inquirer and get well-read. There are statutes in Europe that prevent smoking in public places, and there have been numerous lawsuits won by nonsmokers. This is year 2002, not 1960! I guess "Uncle Slam" doesn't know right from wrong unless there's a piece of paper stating so. Just another sheep following the herd... Ba..Ba......

I would like to take the time to thank you all for the nice words. Especiale to the one who email me with hate words and Julie who sent me a virus. That come to show how nice non-smokers are!<BR>I did change my account address with hotmail and Norton killed the virus, so dont bother to send my more hate email. Now I understand why people give xxx adresses. Have a nice evening!

Jules,<BR><BR>Uncle Sam knows plenty about "right and wrong". And Uncle Sam knows that in some places in Europe there are smoking ordinances and quite frankly Uncle Sam would be quite happy to not have to be anywhere that smokers light up and blow smoke. <BR><BR>And Uncle Sam does not understand why women, in particular, who do so much to look so good, believe that they look good driving down the highway with a cigarette dangling from their lips and their eyes watering from the smoke in their car...but they do it anyway.<BR><BR>However until the smoking Nazis eliminate smoking, and the fat gram Nazis eliminate eating at McDonalds and if neither of those is against the law...and if we are going to be bothered by it then you and I will just have to adapt or stay home!<BR><BR>I prefer to go and not complain...you can do as you please.<BR><BR>Got it yet?

I don't smoke, don't like it, but am getting nervous about all these rules we have in the US. I love my Country, but things are getting a little fanatical here. Recently in the US, a Judge ruled that a Mother could lose custody of her child if she smokes in her own home. Next, if you have a glass of wine, you might be suspect as a parent. What if you are an overeater? Will your child be taken away because they too might become obese? Where does it end. I rather like that Europeans seem to "do whatever they like."