What Makes an Airline Go Out of Their Way to Help
Mar 23rd, 2012, 05:04 AM
#1
Original Poster
What Makes an Airline Go Out of Their Way to Help
I had reservations with several airlines for different trips. I'm finding that more and more the original itinerary resembles very little the final itinerary. It's almost like they just want your reservation with a reasonable connection and then when it's too late for you to make other arrangements the changes (usually for the worst) start to take place.
Most likely it's that we each have different ideas of what's better. They want flights to go thru hubs so that they have more chance of being filled. I want a better schedule with less plane changes.
What can we do about it?
I'm finding that while Delta is among the worst for making changes (by worst I mean the percentage of my flights that have been changed to a worse connection) they seem to be among the best in trying to please you after the change (I can't believe I may have complimented them).
Every time they've made a change I called them and managed to get a connection that was better than what they gave me. Since this usually takes place several months after my original ticket purchase, and what I would like to do may have changed (add a day or two, subtract a day or two, get an earlier flight, get a later flight, etc) they go out of their way to accomodate me with a change that may even have a higher price tag (at no extra charge).
I have a reservation with American to Marseille for June 2012 (hence the thread is posted here) (originally ticketed in Oct, 2011). Several days ago I decided to call and get seat assignments. There was an automated message informing me that my outbound flight had been cancelled. I received no call or email from them. Nothing.
When I spoke with a ticket agent she appeared to be friendly but firm that her job was to try and help me get a replacement (after all she could always refund my ticket and wash her hands of it) and pleasing me was not part of the conversation.
What can I do?
I mentioned that there was a better flight on their schedule and she insisted that "I didn't understand and there was no availability (no air miles seats) on that flight".
I found that as soon as I mentioned that with her solution I was losing half a day of my trip, she suddenly went to "level 2" and offered to move my flight a day earlier (but still with the undesirable flights). What was wrong with the new flights? I had an eight hour layover that while I would have gone into the city for several hours, I knew my wife wouldn't be comfortable doing that.
In the end I decided to add a day to the end of the trip (this date wasn't originally available using air miles).
Still not being satisfied with that flight with the long layover, I called again a day later. I asked the ticket agent when they knew my flight had been cancelled. He told me Jan 21, 2012. This was March 20, 2012!!!!
I told him that had they informed me of the problem on Jan 21 I might have been able to make other arrangements. But now it was too late. This must have hit a chord (or maybe I had a more accomodating ticket agent). He went to "level 3".
He told me the second flight had two air miles seats available and he had reserved them for me (I now had one of the first flight and two of the second flight - maybe I was in a Chinese restaurant). He was going to put in a manual request (it appears that most requests and responses are automated) for the better first flight but it might take 3-4 days.
The next day checked my reservation and I had been given the better flight.
The end result was that originally I was to arrive in Marseille at 1PM. After the first change we would have arrived at 6:25PM. With the second change we arrive at 11:30AM. And we have an extra day at the end.
What am I learning from this? What seems to get some action is the strength of my case.
1) I'm losing half a day with your solution (not a bad argument but not that strong).
2) If you had told me when you knew that there was a problem (2 months earlier) I might have been able to make other arrangements (this apears to be quite strong).
Or maybe some ticket agents want to help and go out of their way more than others.
Most likely it's that we each have different ideas of what's better. They want flights to go thru hubs so that they have more chance of being filled. I want a better schedule with less plane changes.
What can we do about it?
I'm finding that while Delta is among the worst for making changes (by worst I mean the percentage of my flights that have been changed to a worse connection) they seem to be among the best in trying to please you after the change (I can't believe I may have complimented them).
Every time they've made a change I called them and managed to get a connection that was better than what they gave me. Since this usually takes place several months after my original ticket purchase, and what I would like to do may have changed (add a day or two, subtract a day or two, get an earlier flight, get a later flight, etc) they go out of their way to accomodate me with a change that may even have a higher price tag (at no extra charge).
I have a reservation with American to Marseille for June 2012 (hence the thread is posted here) (originally ticketed in Oct, 2011). Several days ago I decided to call and get seat assignments. There was an automated message informing me that my outbound flight had been cancelled. I received no call or email from them. Nothing.
When I spoke with a ticket agent she appeared to be friendly but firm that her job was to try and help me get a replacement (after all she could always refund my ticket and wash her hands of it) and pleasing me was not part of the conversation.
What can I do?
I mentioned that there was a better flight on their schedule and she insisted that "I didn't understand and there was no availability (no air miles seats) on that flight".
I found that as soon as I mentioned that with her solution I was losing half a day of my trip, she suddenly went to "level 2" and offered to move my flight a day earlier (but still with the undesirable flights). What was wrong with the new flights? I had an eight hour layover that while I would have gone into the city for several hours, I knew my wife wouldn't be comfortable doing that.
In the end I decided to add a day to the end of the trip (this date wasn't originally available using air miles).
Still not being satisfied with that flight with the long layover, I called again a day later. I asked the ticket agent when they knew my flight had been cancelled. He told me Jan 21, 2012. This was March 20, 2012!!!!
I told him that had they informed me of the problem on Jan 21 I might have been able to make other arrangements. But now it was too late. This must have hit a chord (or maybe I had a more accomodating ticket agent). He went to "level 3".
He told me the second flight had two air miles seats available and he had reserved them for me (I now had one of the first flight and two of the second flight - maybe I was in a Chinese restaurant). He was going to put in a manual request (it appears that most requests and responses are automated) for the better first flight but it might take 3-4 days.
The next day checked my reservation and I had been given the better flight.
The end result was that originally I was to arrive in Marseille at 1PM. After the first change we would have arrived at 6:25PM. With the second change we arrive at 11:30AM. And we have an extra day at the end.
What am I learning from this? What seems to get some action is the strength of my case.
1) I'm losing half a day with your solution (not a bad argument but not that strong).
2) If you had told me when you knew that there was a problem (2 months earlier) I might have been able to make other arrangements (this apears to be quite strong).
Or maybe some ticket agents want to help and go out of their way more than others.
Mar 23rd, 2012, 05:42 AM
#2
I suppose I'm just being cynical when I say that I suspect the reason they go "out of their way" even after they've made changes (which I would assume they made because ultimately it benefits their bottom line) they bent over backward to accommodate you because <B>there's some rule you don't know about that says they have to</B>.
Seem too far-fetched? Too harsh? After all, the idea is to make a profit. While I think few would question that, it's the apparent "at any cost" notion that is disturbing.
Seem too far-fetched? Too harsh? After all, the idea is to make a profit. While I think few would question that, it's the apparent "at any cost" notion that is disturbing.
Mar 23rd, 2012, 05:56 AM
#3
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I think a lot has to do with the employee. We used an airline credit card which earned miles in the past (no longer as they are so hard to redeem) and, when I'd call to try to make or change a reservation or to redeem miles, I could usually tell pretty quickly whether I was going to be successful or not.
If the agent was not at all helpful, I'd just accept their answer that what I wanted was not possible and call back until I found someone motivated to assist. Now, I shouldn't have had to do this, but it worked every time.
If the agent was not at all helpful, I'd just accept their answer that what I wanted was not possible and call back until I found someone motivated to assist. Now, I shouldn't have had to do this, but it worked every time.
Mar 23rd, 2012, 06:03 AM
#5
Original Poster
Actually, the reason for the post is to possibly help other people come up with an argument to get them a better route/connection.
Our goal (price aside) is to get the best connection according to our priorities. Their goal is to give you the best connection according to their priorities.
I'm always amused when a supplier tells a customer they're doing something because it's better. I ask "better for who?".
Not me!!!!
Our goal (price aside) is to get the best connection according to our priorities. Their goal is to give you the best connection according to their priorities.
I'm always amused when a supplier tells a customer they're doing something because it's better. I ask "better for who?".
Not me!!!!
Mar 23rd, 2012, 06:08 AM
#6
Original Poster
Judy, You bring up a good point.
AA is making it harder and harder to redeem air miles.
Now they have a new trick. You can almost always redeem the miles for your flight but at double or even triple the number of air miles.
Last summer we went to Calgary. With a moderate amount of difficulty I was able to get my flights with air miles (though they kept offering it to me at double the miles).
This year I'm looking at going to Calgary again (a very different destination) and there's just about nothing available for that whole month at the minimum number of air miles.
We're just going to have to plan better and be prepared to ticket 330 days out.
AA is making it harder and harder to redeem air miles.
Now they have a new trick. You can almost always redeem the miles for your flight but at double or even triple the number of air miles.
Last summer we went to Calgary. With a moderate amount of difficulty I was able to get my flights with air miles (though they kept offering it to me at double the miles).
This year I'm looking at going to Calgary again (a very different destination) and there's just about nothing available for that whole month at the minimum number of air miles.
We're just going to have to plan better and be prepared to ticket 330 days out.
Mar 23rd, 2012, 07:10 AM
#7
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What makes an airline go out of it's way
1. Culture (And my expereince with AA is that their culture is less "friendly" in this regards then Delta)
2. Status. The more money you spend on an airline the more they help
3. Being nice. being a jerk will make them go out of thier way... to make things WORSE
As a general rule. the airline notifies you about a cancelled or changed flights in the "order" of flight. So for example, OPs flight was not until June 2012 the folks with cancelled flights in Feb, March, April, May will all be notified before June flights. That's why it pays to check flights periodically when you book far in advance!
1. Culture (And my expereince with AA is that their culture is less "friendly" in this regards then Delta)
2. Status. The more money you spend on an airline the more they help
3. Being nice. being a jerk will make them go out of thier way... to make things WORSE
As a general rule. the airline notifies you about a cancelled or changed flights in the "order" of flight. So for example, OPs flight was not until June 2012 the folks with cancelled flights in Feb, March, April, May will all be notified before June flights. That's why it pays to check flights periodically when you book far in advance!
Mar 23rd, 2012, 07:49 AM
#8
Original Poster
Carol,
I agree mostly with what you write. We have placed ourselves in a certain slot by how we purchased our ticket. As you wrote, the more you spend the more they will try.
The trick is to get the best treatment you can within the slot you have placed yourself.
In my case they never informed me of the cancellation. They knew five months out and I only found out about it three months out because I called for seat assignment.
What you can't help, you can't help. What we're trying to do is figure out ways to make sure we'll get the best treatment for the slot that we're in.
I would hate to admit it but the person you speak to has a lot to do with the treatment you get. Wouldn't it be great if we could ask for a specific person. I guess that person would get all of the calls.
Also, I pains me greatly to think that after some of the issues I've had with Delta that they are more accomodating than AA.
I agree mostly with what you write. We have placed ourselves in a certain slot by how we purchased our ticket. As you wrote, the more you spend the more they will try.
The trick is to get the best treatment you can within the slot you have placed yourself.
In my case they never informed me of the cancellation. They knew five months out and I only found out about it three months out because I called for seat assignment.
What you can't help, you can't help. What we're trying to do is figure out ways to make sure we'll get the best treatment for the slot that we're in.
I would hate to admit it but the person you speak to has a lot to do with the treatment you get. Wouldn't it be great if we could ask for a specific person. I guess that person would get all of the calls.
Also, I pains me greatly to think that after some of the issues I've had with Delta that they are more accomodating than AA.
Mar 23rd, 2012, 08:12 AM
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You may well,Myer, I am sorry to say, find that your new "firm" flights are changed or cancelled again, right up until the day you leave. That is the Catch 22 of booking so far ahead: if you don't, you can't get anything with miles; if you do, it is subject to [multiple] changes. Some of the reason for changes are perfectly legitimate, from new time slot assignments at airports to weather to change of aircraft. Others are business decisions that tend to happen on a regular schedule: new flights, consolidated flights, cancelled flights. A lot can happen between October and June, and there will certainly be schedule changes broadly in the winter and in the spring.
We long since gave up on credit card miles and now use a CapitalOne card that allows us to accumulate "dollars". Wee can use their travel agent to book flights or do our own and _apply the dollars to the fare retroactivel -- even after we return home. Works for us.
We long since gave up on credit card miles and now use a CapitalOne card that allows us to accumulate "dollars". Wee can use their travel agent to book flights or do our own and _apply the dollars to the fare retroactivel -- even after we return home. Works for us.
Mar 23rd, 2012, 08:26 AM
#11
Original Poster
Ackislander,
Somewhere in what I wrote I referred to my current or third routing.
I didn't refer to it as my final routing. By now I know better.
But it's always good to have a better route than a worse one. Maybe it won't change.
Somewhere in what I wrote I referred to my current or third routing.
I didn't refer to it as my final routing. By now I know better.
But it's always good to have a better route than a worse one. Maybe it won't change.
Mar 23rd, 2012, 09:37 AM
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Myer - I'm surprised you didn't have an automated warning message set up with AA if there were any changes. That's something I do with all airlines.
It's not that AA specifically is making it more difficult to redeem lower FF miles awards, I see it across the board.
I just had this happen with Delta. I booked a first class domestic trip, with multiple legs. Within a week, Delta emailed me to tell me one of my flights had been downgraded to economy due to equipment changes.
When an award is booked, it doesn't mean that you're done and can wipe your hands. You have to be vigilant in watching your tickets. My last trip to Argentina, ended up final after 4 changes were made, some by me and some by the airline (AA).
Politeness always helps as does a sense of humor, even though it might not be a humorous situation.
I haven't had to pay for a personal international trip since 1990. It's always a matter of paying attention. It adheres to the First Law of Corporate Finance "Anything that can be changed will be changed until there is no time left to change it"
It's not that AA specifically is making it more difficult to redeem lower FF miles awards, I see it across the board.
I just had this happen with Delta. I booked a first class domestic trip, with multiple legs. Within a week, Delta emailed me to tell me one of my flights had been downgraded to economy due to equipment changes.
When an award is booked, it doesn't mean that you're done and can wipe your hands. You have to be vigilant in watching your tickets. My last trip to Argentina, ended up final after 4 changes were made, some by me and some by the airline (AA).
Politeness always helps as does a sense of humor, even though it might not be a humorous situation.
I haven't had to pay for a personal international trip since 1990. It's always a matter of paying attention. It adheres to the First Law of Corporate Finance "Anything that can be changed will be changed until there is no time left to change it"
Mar 23rd, 2012, 08:11 PM
#14
As you pointed out, their goal is to fill planes. Do I have to mention preferably with revenue passengers? They're making no money on you except in fees.
In the now warped world of frequent flyer travel, although you demonstrated a level of loyalty to the airline (by accumulating miles), the airline's attitude is that you're a freeloader when you redeem an award. I agree with Rastaguytoday that you must closely monitor award reservations.
On the bright side, American hasn't gone under yet. USAirways is trying to buy it out of bankruptcy. (Is that a good thing?) Meanwhile, pray some international incident doesn't spike oil prices into the stratosphere.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/02/...a-lot-bumpier/
In the now warped world of frequent flyer travel, although you demonstrated a level of loyalty to the airline (by accumulating miles), the airline's attitude is that you're a freeloader when you redeem an award. I agree with Rastaguytoday that you must closely monitor award reservations.
On the bright side, American hasn't gone under yet. USAirways is trying to buy it out of bankruptcy. (Is that a good thing?) Meanwhile, pray some international incident doesn't spike oil prices into the stratosphere.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/02/...a-lot-bumpier/
