What kind of meal does $500 buy in Paris?
Sep 20th, 2005, 05:25 PM
#22
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Loveitaly, probably people who are able to say such a thing..are the ones who are able to do it and think everybody behaves the same way.
No other way to have such a thought on another person that you really don't know.
No other way to have such a thought on another person that you really don't know.
Sep 20th, 2005, 05:28 PM
#23
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Well USNR may be a tough, embittered Iwo Jima veteran but he/ she does make a point.
Enjoy a $500 meal if you are inclined.
I like a good French meal myself and shall be having lots in a couple of weeks (I am a sucker for the "rapport qualite-prix" -- the price quality ratio, which is very good in France)
But remember too that $500 is 6 months salary in Burkina Faso, West Africa, where a young man lives whom we are now helping and who claims his family's life has been transformed by $500, used to start a micro-credit-type enterprise....
Enjoy a $500 meal if you are inclined.
I like a good French meal myself and shall be having lots in a couple of weeks (I am a sucker for the "rapport qualite-prix" -- the price quality ratio, which is very good in France)
But remember too that $500 is 6 months salary in Burkina Faso, West Africa, where a young man lives whom we are now helping and who claims his family's life has been transformed by $500, used to start a micro-credit-type enterprise....
Sep 20th, 2005, 06:26 PM
#24
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What kind of meal does $500 buy?
AN OVERPRICED ONE. The only "service" that could possibly justify that kind of expense is the kind of service one gets in Amsterdam's red light district.
AN OVERPRICED ONE. The only "service" that could possibly justify that kind of expense is the kind of service one gets in Amsterdam's red light district.
Sep 20th, 2005, 06:35 PM
#25
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I'm always both amused and disgusted when one person presumes to disparage the choices of someone else, most especially a stranger. A $500 meal is overpriced only to someone who doesn't want to spend that much money on it, who doesn't perceive the value. Ditto for a car, a house, a bottle of wine, a cigar, a suit of clothes, a pedigree dog, a boat, jewelry, and yes, travel.
All of these things are luxury items, even when we're sticking to a budget, and unless we're all going to sell everything and donate it to charity and wear flour sacks, I think we need to contribute good works and charity whenever we can, and respect other people's choices if they don't affect our own.
All of these things are luxury items, even when we're sticking to a budget, and unless we're all going to sell everything and donate it to charity and wear flour sacks, I think we need to contribute good works and charity whenever we can, and respect other people's choices if they don't affect our own.
Sep 20th, 2005, 07:00 PM
#27
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I guess I have my own thoughts on the a price tag like that for one meal, but for me it's kind of an interesting anthropological question, but only from a voyeuristic point of view. I couldn't bring myself to order that dinner. For me, it's sort of like reading about the historical aspects of upper society excess past, brought to life. And we all spend a fair amount of time in Europe perusing the remnants of those pursuits, yes?
Because I love good food, but have rarely found a correlation between price and enjoyment, a tag-a-long question if you wouldn't mind?
Was the most expensive meal you've had also your best meal?
Sep 20th, 2005, 07:29 PM
#28
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>>>>AN OVERPRICED ONE. The only "service" that could possibly justify that kind of expense is the kind of service one gets in Amsterdam's red light district.<<<<<
While hopefully that was meant tongue in cheek, what an odd comparison. Why pay for THAT kind of service when so many are willing to give it away for free? But it is much harder to find someone willing to spend all day shopping for the best ingredients, then preparing a fantastic meal and elegantly serving it for free. In that sense the meal is a much more logical expense than the service in the red light district.
And I too bristle when someone makes that crazy statement about feeding the poor. Unless a person has taken a total vow of poverty and lives from the land under the stars and gives every thing he has to the poor -- well, it's all relative -- he has no reason to insult how others spend their money.
While hopefully that was meant tongue in cheek, what an odd comparison. Why pay for THAT kind of service when so many are willing to give it away for free? But it is much harder to find someone willing to spend all day shopping for the best ingredients, then preparing a fantastic meal and elegantly serving it for free. In that sense the meal is a much more logical expense than the service in the red light district.
And I too bristle when someone makes that crazy statement about feeding the poor. Unless a person has taken a total vow of poverty and lives from the land under the stars and gives every thing he has to the poor -- well, it's all relative -- he has no reason to insult how others spend their money.
Sep 20th, 2005, 07:30 PM
#29
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Well said, Elaine.
And to answer Clifton: yes. I don't eat cheaply, nor do I go for huge splurges. About 10 years ago we had lunch at Daniel in NYC and it was truly my most memorable meal.
Most delecious? Not sure.
I am involved with food professionally, and eat a lot of great food, sometimes for next to no cash.
However, Daniel was perfectly delecious and the service and atmosphere were just lovely.
And to answer Clifton: yes. I don't eat cheaply, nor do I go for huge splurges. About 10 years ago we had lunch at Daniel in NYC and it was truly my most memorable meal.
Most delecious? Not sure.
I am involved with food professionally, and eat a lot of great food, sometimes for next to no cash.
However, Daniel was perfectly delecious and the service and atmosphere were just lovely.
Sep 20th, 2005, 07:51 PM
#30
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Two part reply:
Friends and I had a celebratory dinner at the restaurant in the Meurice a couple years ago, and it was just wonderful. We went for a prix fixe tasting menu and if I recall correctly, it was about 125 euro per person, plus wine - which was not cheap. We still laugh about how when the captain rolled over the cart to offer a digestif I asked him to select for me; the armagnac was divine but nearly reemerged when I saw the bill - that one drink cost more than the meal! It was delicious, perfectly served and memorable; not the most memorable or enjoyable meal I have ever had but I sure don't regret it. (BTW my most memorable meal was probably a turkey dinner served in a treetop lodge in Kenya, and I have no idea what it cost.)
Part two:
The term that applies when such a person so vigorously assails another about something regarding which they have no real information is probably "projection"; in my little backwater the pertinent old saying is "hit dog hollers"
Friends and I had a celebratory dinner at the restaurant in the Meurice a couple years ago, and it was just wonderful. We went for a prix fixe tasting menu and if I recall correctly, it was about 125 euro per person, plus wine - which was not cheap. We still laugh about how when the captain rolled over the cart to offer a digestif I asked him to select for me; the armagnac was divine but nearly reemerged when I saw the bill - that one drink cost more than the meal! It was delicious, perfectly served and memorable; not the most memorable or enjoyable meal I have ever had but I sure don't regret it. (BTW my most memorable meal was probably a turkey dinner served in a treetop lodge in Kenya, and I have no idea what it cost.)
Part two:
The term that applies when such a person so vigorously assails another about something regarding which they have no real information is probably "projection"; in my little backwater the pertinent old saying is "hit dog hollers"
Sep 20th, 2005, 08:54 PM
#31
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The best meals in Paris are usually at medium-expensive restaurants. The most expensive restaurants overcharge out of greed and snobbery, and you do not get what you pay for, even if you enjoy the exaggerated theater of such venues. Extremely cheap restaurants may have very mediocre food. The best value is thus in the middle.
Sep 20th, 2005, 09:12 PM
#32
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"AN OVERPRICED ONE. The only "service" that could possibly justify that kind of expense is the kind of service one gets in Amsterdam's red light district."
LOL. Please, Edward no gags while I'm eating. If it hadn't been for the Moet I would have most certainly choked on my Poulet Frit alla Kentucky.
LOL. Please, Edward no gags while I'm eating. If it hadn't been for the Moet I would have most certainly choked on my Poulet Frit alla Kentucky.
Sep 20th, 2005, 10:16 PM
#33
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Friends of ours went to Paris for a week to celebrate their 20th anniversary (and also to celebrate that a breast cancer scare turned out to be a false alarm) and ate at five different top Paris restaurant (Taillevent, Ledoyen, Les Ambassadeurs, La Tour d'Argent and I forget the last one). Taillevent was their favorite, but they liked the beautiful book on the history of culinary trends in Paris they were given at Ledoyen. They were unable to get a reservation at Le Grand Vefour. The bill for dinner with wine (they are wine connoisseurs and wanted to try some really top wines) exceeded $500 for each of the restaurants, but they didn't feel they had been overcharged.
On reflection, though, they wished they had not done so many "haute cuisine" meals in one week. Not because of the quality of the food or service (no complaints there), but because each of those dining experiences took over three hours. And as the husband said, "we've been married 20 years. After the third three-hour dinner, you're kind of talked out!"
A few years ago, Le Point did an excellent article on how much it costs restaurants to keep up that 3-star rating. It's a very expensive, high stress business.
In Paris, we prefer the one-stars or the well-regarded no star restaurants (the ones that have very good, but not necessarily inventive food) and a few favorite casual spots.
However, in London, we do splurge about once a month for a meal that costs close to $400 at Zuma, a Japanese restaurant. We decided better to eat at home and splash out once in a while than to eat out several times a month at middling restaurants--in the end, it costs about the same. And we love Zuma and feel we're getting our money's worth there.
Tedgale, USNR, drop it. Our friends had never been to Europe; this was a special splurge for them. And they both do a LOT for their community. Tedgale, you recently posted about your trip to Rome--no one self-righteously decreed that you should have skipped that vacation and sent the money to the poor in Africa. How many lives in Burkino Faso could have been transformed by what YOU spent on YOUR trip?
On reflection, though, they wished they had not done so many "haute cuisine" meals in one week. Not because of the quality of the food or service (no complaints there), but because each of those dining experiences took over three hours. And as the husband said, "we've been married 20 years. After the third three-hour dinner, you're kind of talked out!"
A few years ago, Le Point did an excellent article on how much it costs restaurants to keep up that 3-star rating. It's a very expensive, high stress business.
In Paris, we prefer the one-stars or the well-regarded no star restaurants (the ones that have very good, but not necessarily inventive food) and a few favorite casual spots.
However, in London, we do splurge about once a month for a meal that costs close to $400 at Zuma, a Japanese restaurant. We decided better to eat at home and splash out once in a while than to eat out several times a month at middling restaurants--in the end, it costs about the same. And we love Zuma and feel we're getting our money's worth there.
Tedgale, USNR, drop it. Our friends had never been to Europe; this was a special splurge for them. And they both do a LOT for their community. Tedgale, you recently posted about your trip to Rome--no one self-righteously decreed that you should have skipped that vacation and sent the money to the poor in Africa. How many lives in Burkino Faso could have been transformed by what YOU spent on YOUR trip?
Sep 21st, 2005, 01:30 AM
#34
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I wanted to be clear that I'm not ADVOCATING spending $500 for dinner, just that it's not inherently objectionable to me, and that I try to respect choices, especially when they are not my business.
I've had plenty of great meals for $50 (some bad ones, too), even more great meals for $100 (ditto), some wonderful blow-out special dinners for very high prices, and,yet sometimes there's nothing like a great burger and fries for $7.95.
I've had plenty of great meals for $50 (some bad ones, too), even more great meals for $100 (ditto), some wonderful blow-out special dinners for very high prices, and,yet sometimes there's nothing like a great burger and fries for $7.95.
Sep 21st, 2005, 03:19 AM
#35
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Basic question - do you mean including alcoholic drinks ?
I've spent that much in the UK but including drinks. The most I've so far spent just for the food element is c.£80 per head for a tasting menu (c.6 courses plus 'surprises'); but the drinks (typically a glass of champagne to start and then a glass of wine to match each course) can then add up to almost as much again. The most I've seen for a tasting menu (food only) is c.£110 I think. I've got the impression that top class restaurants in Paris cost about the same as in the UK.
I've spent that much in the UK but including drinks. The most I've so far spent just for the food element is c.£80 per head for a tasting menu (c.6 courses plus 'surprises'); but the drinks (typically a glass of champagne to start and then a glass of wine to match each course) can then add up to almost as much again. The most I've seen for a tasting menu (food only) is c.£110 I think. I've got the impression that top class restaurants in Paris cost about the same as in the UK.
Sep 21st, 2005, 03:36 AM
#36
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I think this is a bit like, 'what kind of hotel room does $500 buy?' - the answer will vary depending on where you are. So, what kind of meal does $500 buy?
In the midwest US, apparently, a banquet for 20.
At the military/meteorological base in Antarctica, a bag of potato chips...
Aggiemom, I can't speak about Paris, but at the three restaurants in my life that I ate at that commanded (or would have commanded) Michelin star status, you could spend that much on a single bottle of wine if you chose. But for around $100-$150 in 1997 at Auberge Hatley in North Hatley, Quebec, it bought a prix fixe 4 course meal (including unlimited Belgian chocolates post-dessert), the services of a sommelier (who cheerfully and kindly made appropriate suggestions after we told him our wine budget), a waiter who I think served our table and one other for three hours; a maitre d' - in short, it was a stage performance, and not just about the food.
Meanwhile, USNR, while I don't dispute that certain services are luxuries to the consumers who purchase them, I also believe that those who perform these services don't see the related paycheques as luxuries. Would an unemployed sommelier, maitre d', waiter, chef, cleaning staff, and handyman/woman really help the other unemployed/ unfortunate of the world? (Or for that matter an unemployed manicurist?) For that matter, did not/does not New Orleans include fancy restaurants and manicure salons? If these things are morally inferior businesses, does this mean that we should refuse to help those in NO who were involved in them?
And what about what I or others here do for a living? What if *those* occupations are deemed superfluous and wasteful - what then the effect on the overall economy, and will that economy be better or less able to accomodate natural disasters?
In the midwest US, apparently, a banquet for 20.
At the military/meteorological base in Antarctica, a bag of potato chips...
Aggiemom, I can't speak about Paris, but at the three restaurants in my life that I ate at that commanded (or would have commanded) Michelin star status, you could spend that much on a single bottle of wine if you chose. But for around $100-$150 in 1997 at Auberge Hatley in North Hatley, Quebec, it bought a prix fixe 4 course meal (including unlimited Belgian chocolates post-dessert), the services of a sommelier (who cheerfully and kindly made appropriate suggestions after we told him our wine budget), a waiter who I think served our table and one other for three hours; a maitre d' - in short, it was a stage performance, and not just about the food.
Meanwhile, USNR, while I don't dispute that certain services are luxuries to the consumers who purchase them, I also believe that those who perform these services don't see the related paycheques as luxuries. Would an unemployed sommelier, maitre d', waiter, chef, cleaning staff, and handyman/woman really help the other unemployed/ unfortunate of the world? (Or for that matter an unemployed manicurist?) For that matter, did not/does not New Orleans include fancy restaurants and manicure salons? If these things are morally inferior businesses, does this mean that we should refuse to help those in NO who were involved in them?
And what about what I or others here do for a living? What if *those* occupations are deemed superfluous and wasteful - what then the effect on the overall economy, and will that economy be better or less able to accomodate natural disasters?
Sep 21st, 2005, 04:12 AM
#37
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Tedgale, your arguments normally make more sense. So $500 is a six month salary in Burkina Faso...look, I don't normally say, 'so what' because it sounds rude, so in the politest way possible, so what? It also paid six months salary to a North American at one time, and for all I know, it might well do this again at some point in the future.
Meanwhile if you believe money has absolute value, such that comparisons between what X dollars buys here or there makes sense, may I suggest that if you want to improve your standard of living, move to Antarctica. There $500 buys much less than it does in North America, which must by your reasoning mean that people who reside at the aforementioned research base enjoy wealth of stratospheric proportions....
Meanwhile if you believe money has absolute value, such that comparisons between what X dollars buys here or there makes sense, may I suggest that if you want to improve your standard of living, move to Antarctica. There $500 buys much less than it does in North America, which must by your reasoning mean that people who reside at the aforementioned research base enjoy wealth of stratospheric proportions....
Sep 21st, 2005, 04:15 AM
#38
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Caroline - I was reading another thread that mentioned someone spending $500 on a meal and I was just curious what that would be like. I didn't know it would spark quite a moral debate!
Personally, I could NEVER imagine spending that on a meal. Or spending hours at the table. Never. I'm an "eat to live" kind of girl. Whatever is fast and easy.
However, my husband is more interested in exploring good dining. But when I showed him the website at Taillevent he really wasn't that interested.
He just wants some good food, not quite so exotic, and nice atmosphere. And he doesn't want to invest the time, either. We only have 8 days in France, so several hours for a meal really impacts that. (Secretly, I'm relieved! I would have gone along if he wanted "an experience" but sooo glad he doesn't.)
Thanks all!
Personally, I could NEVER imagine spending that on a meal. Or spending hours at the table. Never. I'm an "eat to live" kind of girl. Whatever is fast and easy.
However, my husband is more interested in exploring good dining. But when I showed him the website at Taillevent he really wasn't that interested.
He just wants some good food, not quite so exotic, and nice atmosphere. And he doesn't want to invest the time, either. We only have 8 days in France, so several hours for a meal really impacts that. (Secretly, I'm relieved! I would have gone along if he wanted "an experience" but sooo glad he doesn't.)
Thanks all!
Sep 21st, 2005, 04:39 AM
#39
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Re Charlie Trotter's in NYC -- this will be at the mega cluster at Time Warner (where Keller of French Laundry has his restaurant Per Se):
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/di...;ex=1127448000
All of those are out of my price range anyway (but I went to Cafe Gray by Kunz, probably the cheapest of the group). But I guess compared to a *** in Paris, maybe Per Se is not that unreasonable.
The most expensive is that Japanese restaurant in the group (forget what's called).
SRS: Did you go for a tasting menu at Le Calandre? If so, classic or seasonal? Anyway, the menus changed in four months, but glad you enjoyed it!
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/di...;ex=1127448000
All of those are out of my price range anyway (but I went to Cafe Gray by Kunz, probably the cheapest of the group). But I guess compared to a *** in Paris, maybe Per Se is not that unreasonable.
The most expensive is that Japanese restaurant in the group (forget what's called).
SRS: Did you go for a tasting menu at Le Calandre? If so, classic or seasonal? Anyway, the menus changed in four months, but glad you enjoyed it!
Sep 21st, 2005, 04:41 AM
#40
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caroline_edinburgh: £110 for tasting menu.
Where was this, by the way?
We opted for the cheap £40 lunch menu at Gordon Ramsay.
Lunches in London are good bargains, I think. If memory serves, Pied-a-Terre offers a £25 lunch (before it burned down, that is) -- according to my guidebook (I think). I've not eaten there.
It has two Michelin **, if memory serves.
Where was this, by the way?
We opted for the cheap £40 lunch menu at Gordon Ramsay.
Lunches in London are good bargains, I think. If memory serves, Pied-a-Terre offers a £25 lunch (before it burned down, that is) -- according to my guidebook (I think). I've not eaten there.
It has two Michelin **, if memory serves.
