What is the rule of English pronunciation
 

I know this sounds strange but, can someone help me understand the rule of how things are pronounced so I don't look too foolish asking for directions to various places. For example, I've learned that Alnwick is pronounced Annick and Beauchamp (which I have pronounced the French way is actually Beecham). What is the rule? From what I can tell, it seems that the W is dropped from certain words, looks like the l in Alnwick is lost too. I don't want to butcher the English language on my next visit so any information will be most helpful. Thank you.

There is no rule. As the Earl of Spencer once said, the secret is in knowing the 'correct' pronunciation; it separates the dignified, refined aristocracy from the nouveau bourgeoisie (I believe his tongue was in cheek). The English are the only people who have corrupted their own language beyond recognition. The one thing of which you can be certain is that whatever you think is the correct pronunciation, isn't.

Actually, it's the Brits who are doing the butchering of the languages, IMO, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Hi
here's my own favorite example (I'm from the US)

Yes, Beauchamp is "Beecham"
and Beaulieu is "Bew-lee"

and when I was staying in a hotel on Beaufort Gardens in London, I tried
"Bew-fort" and got strange looks.
It's "Bo-fort."

The "w"s in the wicks and the wich-es are all dropped in pronunciation, I believe.

Hopeless cause,I'm afraid. One of my favorite examples is "Lafayette Street." In Nashville, it is pronounced "la FAY et." In New York City, "la fee et." Or, perhaps, "la fay et." No real emphasis on any of the 3 syllables in that New York example. But, in Nashville, you must strongly accent the second syllable or you are considered a rube.

Hi equi,

There are no rules for pronouncing proper nouns. It's just custom.

For example: Northamptonshire is Hants.

My favorite is from PG Wodehouse:

"His name is Moom."
"Moom?"
"Yes, it's spelled Moffom, but it's pronounced like Bluffingham."

Featherstonehough is Fenshaw.

Actually, Ira, Hampshire is Hants.

Coming from one who has nearby the village of Auchleven, pronounced Premnay (don't ask)

I'll never forget asking for directions to the Renaissance Hotel near Heathrow. We stopped to ask some folks in front of a pub. I asked if they knew where the "REN-aissance" Hotel was. The young man looked at me and said "Oh, you mean the "re-NAY-ssance". I was tempted to tell him that I knew what I meant, but let it pass in an effort to avoid an international incident.
((c))

you are right. No rules other than those of snobbery.
Foreigners who try to Anglicize the spelling of their names into English often end up with something they did not want.
Their English teacher in school told them one way, we pronounced a second way, and Britishers say it a third way. The results are often unusual.

If you're really interested, the BBC (I think) puts out a Dictionary of English Place names. It's about 400 pages and includes pronunciation.

My favorite is Mousehole.

Hi, I am English (not British but English and proud of it) and whilst i agree with rfb and mrwunrfl that we are somewhat responsible for bastardising our own language, this is partly due to the fact that we are a small nation which has withstood many outside influences and invasions yet absorbed many outside influences also.
This is evident in our absorbtion of words like cul-de-sac, chic, drole, premiere etc.
Many British place names in particular are a historical reminder of past invasions and often bear little resemblance to a English sounding word.

Historically, the higher levels of English society spoke either Latin or French as many of our past monarchs were not of English descent whilst the more humble Anglo Saxon spoke a cruder language.

It is noted that English is one of the hardest lanfguages in Europe to learn as there are more irregularities than French, Italian or Spanish etc which by & large follow more logical rules although all these plus English are descended from a latin root.

It is worth remembering that English is a more gutteral tongue related more closely to German and a word that has a softer sound in French or Italian is likely to have a harsher sound in English eg French origine (orizheene)
English origin (orijin) or French Belvoir (belvwoire) English Belvoir (Beever).

On a cynical note I wouldn't worry unduly (undewly!!) as there are plenty of British folk who have no idea as to the correct pronunciation of our own language so any errors you may make may well go undetected.....

Yea, but you have to love a country that calls those nasty things we call speed bumps, "sleeping policemen".

Thanks, FionaH, for that thorough explanation. Now I understand why, as Underhill informed, that y'all have an an English -to- English translation dictionary so that you know where you are going in your own "small nation".

Can someone tell me what is the correct pronunciation for "Reading" -- is it read as in present tense or read as in past tense? I have to change trains there on my way to Swansea. Thanks.

>Actually, Ira, Hampshire is Hants.<

Aggggggggggghhhhhhh!

I shall throw myself upon my sword. :)

An English accent is usually a prerequisite.

Hi Dallas,

Yes.

Thanks, Ira, but "yes" doesn't answer my question. Is Reading pronounced in past or present tense of read?

It's pronounced Read as in past tense.

I like Chomondelay (sort of chumley)

Culzean (sort of Cullane)

Worcester (sort of woester)

Leicester (lester)

There are aboslutely NO rules.

I agree there are no rules as to pronunciation, its not an 'English' thing, but a 'local' thing. It kind of separates who lives locally to who doesn't. For example, local to me is a village called Teynham. Now, I would say that people from 'over the pond' and also from here in England would be inclined to pronounce it TEENHAM. Oh no, we have none of that here. TENAM is the way it is said. As you say 'over there', "go figure"!. Even the traffic reporters on local radio get it wrong. Another one is TROTTISCLIFFE. Now I used to say trottiz-cliff. Oh, no this one is pronounced TROZZ-LEE. I was derided as if I should know better, but not originating from the immediate local area, how was I to know?! You only know these strange and quirky pronunciations if you are local and are into the secret! Its just another one of those irritations that us English have to learn to deal with (along with the tourists :) )

Along these lines,

I have heard the locals in New Orleans pronounce the name of their city as both New Orleens and N'orlins.

In North Carolina we have Beaufort pronounce Bow fort, and in South Carolina Beaufort, pronounced Byew fort.

FionaH has it well said. Also yes, even those from the locale don't always now the pronounciation. It's mostly due to the derivation of names and how they become corrupted yet in the cases mentioned the spelling has not been changed due to them being wel documented. As Monty Python put it: "Thank you, Mr. Luxury-Yacht". "Ah yes, it's spelled Luxury-Yacht but it is promounced Throat-Warbler-Mangrove".

By the way, Beaufort and renaissance are bouth French and the pronounciation is unchanged in britain. In the US renaissance is bastardized (renesance versus re-nay-sance) So, the way I llok at it you are both correct except as the original poster of the thread pointed out it is a matter of where you are standing that makes one preferred over the other (i.e. which side of the pond you happen to be on at the time.

Another two cents worth (or two pence, used to be pronounced tupence) Reading is prounounced Red-ing.

Thanks to everyone that has responded. It has been most interesting reading everyone's comments. If there are no rules then I will just give it my best shot and wing it and if someone doesn't understand me I will be carrying a small notebook and pen along so that if I get too many strange looks I can always write it down. I don't take it personally if someone laughs at me, at least I won't make the same mistake twice. I'm truly looking forward to enjoying my holiday as you say (it sounds so much nicer than vacation). This message board is really so helpful, I have gotten some really good ideas on places to see and stay or not stay in, and things to do when visiting the UK. Oh, and if anyone is ever visiting Houston St. in New York City, it's pronounced House-ton, not like the city in Texas. Go figure.

Here is some S's for you

safe - good, all is fine. General term used to indicate that everything is o.k.

salmon and trout - Rhyming Slang for 'snout', meaning tobacco.

salt / sort - the word salt means woman (esp. a 'loose' woman or sexual partner) and has been used since the 19th century. Usually pron. 'sort'. It is used in a slightly derogatory way and is nearly always prefixed by 'some old'. e.g. "Dave wasn't dahn the boozer last night, must av been out with some old sort he met the other night".

sausage jockey - a gay man (a man who 'rides' 'sausages').

scarpa / scarper - Rhyming Slang for Scapa Flow - to run off / leave quickly.

Scooby-Do - Modern Rhyming Slang for 'clue'. e.g. "I 'avn't a Scooby mate".

scrounge - to beg or sponge off of others.

seeing-to - to perform sexual intercourse. e.g. "I'd give her a good seeing-to".

see you next Tuesday - an very rude acronym (C U Next Tuesday). There are many more here on Riley's see you next Tuesday site.

Sexton Blake - Rhyming Slang for 'fake'.

shafted - to be treated badly, to be in trouble. e.g. "I'm totally shafted if I don't get that job".

shafting - sexual intercourse. e.g. "I gave her a good shafting".

shag - very common mildly rude term for sexual intercourse.

shagged-out - to feel tired.

shitfaced - very drunk. Can be abbreviated to 'faced'.

shit for brains - term of abuse for someone of low wit or intelligence.

shitter - common term for the anus. Can also be used as a term of frustration - i.e. "That's a real shitter". Also see "Garry Glitter".

shed-load - a huge amount. e.g. "I've got a shed-load of dodgy stuff for sale".

shell-like - the ear. e.g. The old phrase "Can I have a word in your shell-like ?".

shell-out - to have to pay for, usually unexpectedly.

sherbert dab - Modern Rhyming Slang for 'cab' (taxi).

sherbet / sherbert - an alcoholic drink (usually a beer). Derives from the Turkish word 'sherbet' which was a cooling drink made from fruit juice. e.g. "Fancy a stroll down the pub for a few sherbets ?".

sherman (tank) - Rhyming Slang for 'wank' (to masturbate). Normally used in it's short form. e.g. "John's been ages in the toilet. Probably gone for a sherman !".

sheriffs badge - one of many slang terms for the anus. Thus known because of the star shaped badge of a wild west sheriff.

shirtlifter - a gay man. Comes from the fact that ones shirt would have to be lifted before anal intercourse.

shoeing - to give something a good 'shoeing' is to give it all you've got or to go for it. May come from a football term ? Comments ?

Sir Anthony Blunt - Rhyming Slang for 'cunt'. Also see 'berk'.

skin diver - Modern Rhyming Slang for 'fiver' (five pound note). Also "deep sea diver".

skint - to have no money, penniless. Also see 'boracic' and 'potless'.

skirt - young attractive woman. Often preceded with "a bit of". A common 'lads' term. e.g. "I never realized this was such a good place to eye skirt" or "What you need is a nice bit of skirt to cheer you up".

skunk - a particularly strong variety of marijuana. Named so because of it's strong smell.

sky rocket - Rhyming Slang for pocket. e.g. "He're a monkey son, stick that in your sky rocket !".

slag - a very common word for a loose woman or generally a rough looking bird. e.g. "She is a right old slag". Used by men and women. It can also be used amongst men as an insult and can be heard in 70's and 80's police drama's ("Shut it you slaaag !").

slaphead - a bald per son.

slapper - a common term for a loose woman.

slash - a very common slang term for urination. e.g. "I'm dying for a slash".

smeg ! - derived from the word smegma. Can be used as an exclamation or a euphemism for fuck. e.g. "Oh smeg I forgot to post that letter !". This saying was very much popularized by the UK TV series 'Red Dwarf'.

smeghead - an idiot, dickhead. Popularized (if not actually invented) by the UK TV series 'Red Dwarf'.

snog - to kiss, usually with tongues. A childish word, mainly used by teenagers ("Cor, Sally got a snog off John after the disco !") or humorously by others ("Fancy a snog luv ?").

snout - tobacco. A prison term. Derives from the fact that the smoking of banned tobacco in prison was often masked by pretending to rub the nose.

solid - reliable, dependable (a solid geezer). e.g. "You don't have to worry about Dave, he's a solid bloke". Also another name for cannabis resin.

son - general term of address to a male. Usually used in a friendly way. i.e. "Nice one son !".

sort - see salt.

spanner - a fool, weak individual. Popular 90's term.

spare - to loose ones temper, to go crazy. e.g. "When she finds out she'll go spare.".

spod - an unpopular young person, normally a boy. Usually someone interested in computing or something considered unfashionable. Another word for a 'geek' or an 'anorak'.

spondulics - money. Probably from the Greek word 'spondulikos' a type of shell used as an early form of money. Also shortened to 'sponds'. i.e. "Have you any sponds you could loan me ?".

spoof/spuff - semen.

spliff - common term for a cannabis cigarette. Originates from the West Indies.

squire - a general term of address towards a man similar to 'guvnor'.

Steffi (Graff) - Modern Rhyming Slang for 'laugh'. ie "You're 'avin a Steffi mate !". (suggested by Chris Donnelly).

stiffy - an erection. e.g. "I woke up with a real stiffy this morning".

stoke-on-trent - Rhyming Slang for 'bent' (homosexual).

stork - an erection. e.g. "Aw, I've got a right stork on after seeing that bird".

straight-up - seriously, implying something is genuine. i.e. "I tell ya, it cost me twice that, straight-up !".

strike a light - an old exclamation only really heard as a tong-in-cheek Cockney phrase nowadays. Sometimes preceded by "stroll on".

stroll on ! - general exclamation of disbelief.

stuffed - done in, ripped off, in trouble etc. e.g. "I'll be completely stuffed if my wife finds out".

stuffing - to perform sexual intercourse (male perspective). e.g. "I gave her a good stuffing".

stunner - pron. 'stunnah'. A very good looking bird.

suss - savvy/know how. eg. "He got a lot of suss".

sussed / sussed out - can mean found out / discovered, or well adjusted / together.

(badly) sussed - what someone might say if they catch you out. For example if you disagree with someone on a point and are then proved wrong the other person might say "Badly sussed mate !".

Sweeny Todd - Rhyming Slang for The Flying Squad - after the demon barber who turned people into pies. Used as the name for the TV show 'The Sweeny' ("Shut it you slaaag !").

sweet - slang for 'excellent' or 'cool'.

sweet as a nut - meaning 'nice', 'simple', 'no problem'.

sweets - a euphemism for testicles. e.g. "Awww you got me in the sweets !".

syrup of figs - Rhyming Slang for for 'wig'. e.g. "See that old bloke over there, is that a syrup he's wearing or what ?".

rfb, you're right, there are no rules. There is no Earl OF Spencer. It's one of the peerages that skips the OF. It's the Earl Spencer.

Oh, and what about Faneuil Hall in Boston...? I knew how I expected to pronounce it, with my best French accent, but not a bit of it...

Supposedly, the correct pronunciation is FAN-nel (rhymes with "flannel"), but nobody I know of around here (Boston area) actually says it that way. Right or wrong, the consensus appears to be FAN-yul. Best way to be taken for an out-of-towner is to make it the three-syllable FAN-yu-ul.

And while we're at it, Henry David Thoreau's last name rhymes with "furrow," and most of the older residents of Concord (I live in the next town over) do actually pronounce it that way.

I live in Boston and flyfish is right on.

On Philadelphia's Main Line, there is a street named "Chamonix". One would assume that the pronounciation would be similar to that of the French ski resort.

One would be wrong. It's "shi-MOAN-ee" (rhymes with "pony").

I know about Poughkeepsie, too, but would you like a try at the BBC newsreader's test that includes place names like Milngavie and Kirkcudbright..

Mind, there was much hilarity at the newsreader who would insist on making sure we didn't think she was talking about monkeys by emphasizing Gair-RRRREEE-ya. Unkind people said she always read the news as though it was YOUR fault..

This thread reminds me of the time I saw a dough-faced ploughman walking through a field coughing and hiccoughing.

Ira, that must have been by the slough near Slough where the snakes slough their skin. Enough, I'm through!

i agree with most that it doesn't matter, but for what it's worth. the obvous buckingham palace is pronounce buckingum, edinburgh is edinbra and southwark is suthick. that my phonetic spelling!