What is the fascination with Cafe's?
Feb 22nd, 2007, 02:12 PM
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What is the fascination with Cafe's?
As a one-timer to Paris, and planning on second trip shortly, I've become a regular lurker and infrequent poster on this and other sites. My question above relates to the oft-repeated recommendation to sit in a cafe vs. going to a musuem, or other item of interest. While in Paris, I ate at various restaurants and had cafe's in various parts of the city. I also toured several museums and monuments.
Given the large number of posters who make the cafe recommendation, I am wondering whether I have simply missed the boat on cafe's. What is the main draw for you, if you recommend "sitting in a cafe"?
Given the large number of posters who make the cafe recommendation, I am wondering whether I have simply missed the boat on cafe's. What is the main draw for you, if you recommend "sitting in a cafe"?
Feb 22nd, 2007, 02:25 PM
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When I advise people to 'sit in a cafe' I am really trying to simply say to take time to relax and observe. Many people rush around trying to see it "all" which is highly unsatisfying after the trip is done. I also advise people to 'sit in a garden' for the same reason.
I see several museums, monuments, parks, cafes, etc. on each of my trips. I stop "sightseeing" around 3-4pm everyday and find an enjoyable place (indoors or outdoors) to have a drink, watch people, chat about the day, plan for tomorrow, etc. It allows one to "be in the moment" more so than making the checklist.
I see several museums, monuments, parks, cafes, etc. on each of my trips. I stop "sightseeing" around 3-4pm everyday and find an enjoyable place (indoors or outdoors) to have a drink, watch people, chat about the day, plan for tomorrow, etc. It allows one to "be in the moment" more so than making the checklist.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 02:27 PM
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In addition, being from Dallas, cafes are quintessential Europe to me. Nothing like it at all here. It's part of everyday life in many foreign cities and to be able to sit and relax with a glass of wine is to truly get what traveling really means. It's not checking things off the list, it's trying to become part of the city and culture you're visiting. In a city like Paris, the cafe culture is a huge part of what makes it so special. My opinion obviously...
Feb 22nd, 2007, 02:42 PM
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I assume you each are coversant in French, which would allow an easier assimilation into the culture. I also understand the "winding down" feeling one gets at the cafe. After winding down at the cafe, do you normally just go back to your hotel or apartment and go directly to bed? My experience, or lack thereof may be tainted by the fact that I went with my family, and we stayed in an apartment. We did the planning and winding down there. I will also admit the I certainly "checked the box" on much of what I did, but our next trip has several "boxes" that I didn't get checked before. Sitting in a cafe is on the possible list of "boxes", so I am just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks to each of you for your replies.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 02:53 PM
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I said that you needed to re-orient yourself, and your follow-up post convinces me.
Cafes are generally less of an evening winding-down thing than a part of the day's activities. You can take breakfast there, morning or afternoon refreshment stops, lunch, and, indeed, perhaps a beer or glass of wine in the evening.
Experience a little of how Parisians behave (true, uderstanding French is an advantage, but not essential -- youcan always indulge in enjoyable speculation on what the conversation is about). Rest your aching feet (have you noticed how many visitors to Paris end up hobbling?). Read your guidebook or maps to plan your next adventure, Most of all, just BE.
Cafes are generally less of an evening winding-down thing than a part of the day's activities. You can take breakfast there, morning or afternoon refreshment stops, lunch, and, indeed, perhaps a beer or glass of wine in the evening.
Experience a little of how Parisians behave (true, uderstanding French is an advantage, but not essential -- youcan always indulge in enjoyable speculation on what the conversation is about). Rest your aching feet (have you noticed how many visitors to Paris end up hobbling?). Read your guidebook or maps to plan your next adventure, Most of all, just BE.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 02:54 PM
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I am sure not all of the people above are conversant in French, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy a cafe.
I think if you have been there and have to ask because it never appealed to you, that's the answer. To many people, it isn't just a matter of relaxing, as you can do that where you are staying, but because it is a way of being part of the area, or trying to be, and just seeing what's going on. Usually when people are on vacation, they want to participate and observe in the place they are, instead of doing things they can do at home (relax when your own family).
As for Paris, and many other cities, cafes are a significant historical element in the culture for various reasons, and so it might be of value to try to understand that or learn about it.
I think for many people in the US, at least, cafes are unknown where they live so it is something new, also. I used to live in LA, and thought it was very weird that there weren't hardly any cafes there even though the weather was almost always good. Of course there were a few down on the beach, but not nearly as many as you would expect. That has changed some, and there are more now. There are also more than there used to be in the large US city where I live now, which isn't always warm. But it's still a novelty to many people.
I like to sit in them in Paris because it's part of the culture, and I enjoy them and the activity, people-watching, etc. It isn't strictly just to unwind, as I could certainly do that in my hotel room or apt. I also like to relax and dawdle over food and breakfast, and like to read the French newspapers, so do that in a cafe for a while. Some cafes actually keep some newspapers around for regulars, and it's a way for me to read several of them without buying them. But I would probably do it even if I couldn't read French. I do it in other cities where I can't read the local paper very much (like in Vienna, Prague, etc.), for the other reasons.
I don't ever sit in a cafe instead of going to a museum, though, I have my plans as to places I am interested in seeing, but I don't have an agenda that is packed every minute with those kind of things, so that I'd have to leave off a museum I really wanted to see.
I think if you have been there and have to ask because it never appealed to you, that's the answer. To many people, it isn't just a matter of relaxing, as you can do that where you are staying, but because it is a way of being part of the area, or trying to be, and just seeing what's going on. Usually when people are on vacation, they want to participate and observe in the place they are, instead of doing things they can do at home (relax when your own family).
As for Paris, and many other cities, cafes are a significant historical element in the culture for various reasons, and so it might be of value to try to understand that or learn about it.
I think for many people in the US, at least, cafes are unknown where they live so it is something new, also. I used to live in LA, and thought it was very weird that there weren't hardly any cafes there even though the weather was almost always good. Of course there were a few down on the beach, but not nearly as many as you would expect. That has changed some, and there are more now. There are also more than there used to be in the large US city where I live now, which isn't always warm. But it's still a novelty to many people.
I like to sit in them in Paris because it's part of the culture, and I enjoy them and the activity, people-watching, etc. It isn't strictly just to unwind, as I could certainly do that in my hotel room or apt. I also like to relax and dawdle over food and breakfast, and like to read the French newspapers, so do that in a cafe for a while. Some cafes actually keep some newspapers around for regulars, and it's a way for me to read several of them without buying them. But I would probably do it even if I couldn't read French. I do it in other cities where I can't read the local paper very much (like in Vienna, Prague, etc.), for the other reasons.
I don't ever sit in a cafe instead of going to a museum, though, I have my plans as to places I am interested in seeing, but I don't have an agenda that is packed every minute with those kind of things, so that I'd have to leave off a museum I really wanted to see.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 03:01 PM
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Maybe a better question for each of you would be: Do you relax and observe, or people watch in your home cities? If you do, is the fascination a personal one to you, or is it more of a French cultural thing? I have the distinct feeling I may be missing out on something great, but I'm not sure it would fit with my personality.
Some direct responses:
To Padraig: I too found them interesting, but I weighed the cost of the trip to France and initially found the balance went to seeing the art, architecture and history of Paris versus people watching. Have you been to Paris many times? Our second trip is coming soon and I wonder whether the cafe fascination is something that grows on you with time.
To Travelnut: Your post was particularly helpful. I believe it comes down to a more personal enjoyment issue. My wife and I both had a wonderful first trip to Paris, but she enjoyed the window shopping at the various shops, including food shops and people watching. She did speak about feeling "rushed" when it came to seeing some of the sites. I, on the other hand enjoyed seeing the sites that I read about in History and Art classes and found the time window shopping and people watching to be frustrating. I continually would be planning in my head what I would do when I got to ______. I do believe that we both thoroughly enjoyed our trip, so much that we began discussions on going back on the flight home.
Thanks again for the replies.
Some direct responses:
To Padraig: I too found them interesting, but I weighed the cost of the trip to France and initially found the balance went to seeing the art, architecture and history of Paris versus people watching. Have you been to Paris many times? Our second trip is coming soon and I wonder whether the cafe fascination is something that grows on you with time.
To Travelnut: Your post was particularly helpful. I believe it comes down to a more personal enjoyment issue. My wife and I both had a wonderful first trip to Paris, but she enjoyed the window shopping at the various shops, including food shops and people watching. She did speak about feeling "rushed" when it came to seeing some of the sites. I, on the other hand enjoyed seeing the sites that I read about in History and Art classes and found the time window shopping and people watching to be frustrating. I continually would be planning in my head what I would do when I got to ______. I do believe that we both thoroughly enjoyed our trip, so much that we began discussions on going back on the flight home.
Thanks again for the replies.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 03:13 PM
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I've been many times and never really spent a lot of time there.
Don't drink coffee, don't want to be around smokers and when you're outside, it's often near noisy traffic.
Probably try to pack too many things in a day so don't sit down except for a few minutes to rest.
The idea of idling away an afternoon sounds good in principle but there's always something else to do, especially if the conditions aren't ideal.
Don't drink coffee, don't want to be around smokers and when you're outside, it's often near noisy traffic.
Probably try to pack too many things in a day so don't sit down except for a few minutes to rest.
The idea of idling away an afternoon sounds good in principle but there's always something else to do, especially if the conditions aren't ideal.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 03:19 PM
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Why don't you try cafe sitting while your wife is shopping? I know I dont like an impatient man staring at me while I shop. Go separate ways for a bit and meet up at a cafe later.
I try to balance sightseeing and cafe sitting wherever I am. I would love to be sitting at a cafe on the square in Siena right now, taking in the ambiance.
I try to balance sightseeing and cafe sitting wherever I am. I would love to be sitting at a cafe on the square in Siena right now, taking in the ambiance.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 03:21 PM
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<i>Maybe a better question for each of you would be: Do you relax and observe, or people watch in your home cities? </i>
Yes, yes, and yes. I'm at the local independent cafe here in D.C. twice a day and tend to stretch my time there. I meet the same people there every day and have made some "cafe freinds". It has the vibe of a living room, albeit outdoors and public.
I like to watch the endless parade of characters (and there are some doozies) on the sidewalk, do a good amount of reading there, and it's a world away from all the stresses of life.
Also, I love coffee.
Yes, yes, and yes. I'm at the local independent cafe here in D.C. twice a day and tend to stretch my time there. I meet the same people there every day and have made some "cafe freinds". It has the vibe of a living room, albeit outdoors and public.
I like to watch the endless parade of characters (and there are some doozies) on the sidewalk, do a good amount of reading there, and it's a world away from all the stresses of life.
Also, I love coffee.
Feb 22nd, 2007, 04:00 PM
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Hi AP,
>..found the time window shopping and people watching to be frustrating. I continually would be planning in my head what I would do when I got to ______.<
Time to slow down and pick some roses, me lad.
I can understand about the window shopping.
Have you considered that for a couple of hours you could go to xxxx while DW goes window shopping.
You could then rendezvous at some small cafe, where gypsies play.....
>..found the time window shopping and people watching to be frustrating. I continually would be planning in my head what I would do when I got to ______.<
Time to slow down and pick some roses, me lad.
I can understand about the window shopping.
Have you considered that for a couple of hours you could go to xxxx while DW goes window shopping.
You could then rendezvous at some small cafe, where gypsies play.....
Feb 22nd, 2007, 04:14 PM
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apersuader65: you are perfectly entitled to use your holiday time as you please, and I can't (and wouldn't want to) force my preferences on you.
Yes, I have been to Paris a number of times and yes, I can speak French, albeit not like a native.
Like you, I am interested in the art, architecture, and history to be seen there. But bear in mind that these things are expressions of people, and the fundamental interest is in some aspect of the human character. I am also interested in today's people and how they live. I get a flavour of it in Paris cafes, particularly those less frequented by my fellow-visitors (just head down a side street and you have a better chance of finding places like that). I also enjoy strolling or sitting in parks, not just the great ones, but also the little pocket parks dotted all over the city, and shopping in places like Monoprix (a relatively cheap chain store), and strolling in areas outside the main tourist zones.
For me, Paris is an experience of another way of living, not just a place to see the "higher" things (although it is hard to miss seeing the Eiffel Tower -- you think you are safe and then it fills a vista or peeks over a rooftop and gets you).
Yes, I have been to Paris a number of times and yes, I can speak French, albeit not like a native.
Like you, I am interested in the art, architecture, and history to be seen there. But bear in mind that these things are expressions of people, and the fundamental interest is in some aspect of the human character. I am also interested in today's people and how they live. I get a flavour of it in Paris cafes, particularly those less frequented by my fellow-visitors (just head down a side street and you have a better chance of finding places like that). I also enjoy strolling or sitting in parks, not just the great ones, but also the little pocket parks dotted all over the city, and shopping in places like Monoprix (a relatively cheap chain store), and strolling in areas outside the main tourist zones.
For me, Paris is an experience of another way of living, not just a place to see the "higher" things (although it is hard to miss seeing the Eiffel Tower -- you think you are safe and then it fills a vista or peeks over a rooftop and gets you).
Feb 22nd, 2007, 04:36 PM
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My wife and I had breakfast every day for a week in the same cafe on the border between the 5th and 6th. We ordered the same thing every morning, and it got to be a bit of a joke with the waiter. On the last morning, when I told him we were going home, he called the owner, and they both shook our hands, we thanking them for taking care of us, them thanking us for being customers.
Priceless? In my memories it is!
Priceless? In my memories it is!
Feb 22nd, 2007, 04:47 PM
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I think most of the reason you "don't get it" is because this was your first trip to Paris and you thought you had to see and do everything. I felt that way myself 35 years ago on our first trip...but 20 or so trips later , for 10 days to 3 weeks in Paris, I can relax and know that there is always something different to do each day.
I start my Pais day in a cafe across from our hotel , at 7 AM! I'm known now as Madame de Florida, chat up the owner , talk with the same people that are always there then roust my DH out of bed. Walk to Paul, chat with the same waitress, Germaine, that has served us over the years and plan our day. Usually hit a street market until about 10 then , head off to a museum for the current exhibitions. Around noon or 1, stop for a nice lunch in a cafe and not hurry. Walk some unfamilar streets or revisit a favorite place, around 4:30 stop for a coffee or glass of wine before heading back to the hotel,
After a nice rest or nap, a bath or shower, dress for dinner, enjoy the walk to the restaurant or the metro , lovely dinner ,and back in bed by 11 to start all over again!
I start my Pais day in a cafe across from our hotel , at 7 AM! I'm known now as Madame de Florida, chat up the owner , talk with the same people that are always there then roust my DH out of bed. Walk to Paul, chat with the same waitress, Germaine, that has served us over the years and plan our day. Usually hit a street market until about 10 then , head off to a museum for the current exhibitions. Around noon or 1, stop for a nice lunch in a cafe and not hurry. Walk some unfamilar streets or revisit a favorite place, around 4:30 stop for a coffee or glass of wine before heading back to the hotel,
After a nice rest or nap, a bath or shower, dress for dinner, enjoy the walk to the restaurant or the metro , lovely dinner ,and back in bed by 11 to start all over again!
