What is inexpensive?
 

I don't know whether this is a controversial question or not, but through my searches of this discussion board my curiosity has arisen. <BR>When someone posts a question looking for inexpensive accomodations, a lot of the time a response is given with a price in the $150 to $200 range - to me this is not inexpensive. <BR>I guess it is a matter of personal income and lifestyle, but are a lot of you extremely wealthy or something. <BR>I make a modest income and live in California were as far as I know things are more expensive, but I could never afford a 3 week trip to Europe spending $150/night for a hotel, it would be frivolous. <BR>Any thoughts?

Elizabeth, you are absolutely right; $150-200 for a room is not inexpensive. We have never paid more than $105.00 for a room and we'd always stayed within walking distance to main sights. Some people go for name and that's worth the $$$ for them. To each his own. <BR> <BR>It also has to do with the city. In London a $100/night double room would be nothing to brag about most likely; in Spain is a beautiful, spacious room in the "middle of the action", with a luscious breakfast buffet and fresh flowers every day. <BR> <BR>I notice that the posters that get the better answers on this forum are the ones who set given parameters to their questions; in other words, they have a good idea of what they are looking for and state so clearly. Is a good start at least.

Elizabeth, you are absolutely right; $150-200 for a room is not inexpensive. We have never paid more than $105.00 for a room and we'd always stayed within walking distance to main sights. Some people go for name and that's worth the $$$ for them. To each his own. <BR> <BR>It also has to do with the city. In London a $100/night double room would be nothing to brag about most likely; in Spain is a beautiful, spacious room in the "middle of the action", with a luscious breakfast buffet and fresh flowers every day. <BR> <BR>I notice that the posters that get the better answers on this forum are the ones who set given parameters to their questions; in other words, they have a good idea of what they are looking for and state so clearly. Is a good start at least.

Elizabeth, <BR>I think we Americans are highly spoiled in our expectations for reasonably priced accommodations. Because we're a highly mobile society either as business travelers or vacationers, the hotel/motel industry here has spoiled us by providing more than adequate accommodations at relatively modest cost. We know what to expect for our money at a Motel 6 or Marriott Courtyard, a Sheraton or a Marriott since they're all out of a cookie cutter design with similar amenities whether we're in Albany, Georgia or Albany, New York. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find an American motel room that doesn't have one, more likely two, double beds, a color television, minibar, hair dryer and a variety of shampoo and soaps. It's interesting to draw comparisons between American accommodations and those of Europe. Here we are predominantly governed in our choices by our familiarity with brand names and that cookie cutter design associated with the brand. A Marriott Courtyard is a Marriott Courtyard is a Marriott Courtyard, regardless of where it is. <BR> <BR>Europe employs a star system (in Great Britain a "crown" symbol) to designate hotel amenities. In London, for example, a one crown facility guarantees a wash basin in every room (not a guarantee of running water, it may be a water pitcher and a bowl) and access to a telephone (which may be down the hall or in the lobby.) A three-crown hotel will have at least a third of its rooms with private bath plus an easy chair and a full-length mirror. Even our lowest scale motels, Super 8 for example, exceed these European standards, though we'd hardly rate Super 8 or Motel 6 as three star or crown facilities. This is not to say, however, that a three-crown hotel may not be more than adequate or delightfully charming. It may fail to achieve a higher rating simply because it doesn't have a restaurant open for breakfast, lunch and dinner, the criteria for a five crown rating. <BR> <BR>No where does the European rating system address the size of rooms. Recognize that most modest, standard, tourist-accommodating hotels in large European cities may not have started out in life as hotels. Many are converted town houses and former homes with anywhere from a dozen to four dozen rooms that have been jammed into spaces that don't jeopardize the structural integrity of the building. "Full size" en suite baths may once have been a pantry or linen closet. The room on the third or fourth floor "with a sweeping view of the Paris skyline and the Tour Eiffel" may well have been the quarters of a scullery maid for whom the homeowner felt no obligation to provide central heating. In such Parisian hotels, elevators are comparable in size to phone booths, having been installed in space probably designed originally for dumb waiters. <BR> <BR>The rules, ratings and "exorbitant" costs are out the window once one leaves the cities. Bavarian Gasthausen, French countryside auberges, English inns and Bed and Breakfasts can offer astounding bargains and amenities but they're difficult to find in travel agents' brochures, tourist office literature or the Internet. <BR> <BR>At the other end of the spectrum are hotels like London's Savoy, Paris' Crillon or Munich's Vier Jahreszeiten with which I have no familiarity at all. Lacking inherited wealth, a generous expense account or connections with a reckless banker, I've never been exposed to their glories other than a stop in the Hotel Crillon's restroom off its palatial main lobby. <BR>

Elizabeth, <BR>Great Question! One I've often thought of asking too, usually right after someone asks about inexpensive/modest accommodations and gets a slew of replies stating how marvelous such and such was and it "only" cost $250 + /night. Trust me (and trust Wes, he knows what he is talking about) that the overwhelming majority of travelers are not rich, I know for sure we are not (you might want to check the posting about what people give up in order to travel for some insight into "wealth" of most travelers to Europe). I do wish when people posted inquiries about rates they would state "we are looking for something in the $90-$100 range or whatever" tho, that would sure help narrow it down. Also it would be nice if people did not state "you will never find anything in that price range" because with some looking you usually can. <BR> <BR>Standards for hotels in Europe do vary greatly from what we are used to in the U.S. - as Wes stated Motel 6, Super8, etc. often provide much more for much less than you can expect in London or Paris for example, however there are ways to circumvent spending a total fortune on a hotel in Europe. One is to simply travel off season (there is a big plus to that, there are less tourists about). You can also ask the hotel if there are any specials or promotion/senior rates (if applicable), etc. - hey, you never know! We lived in the LA area for 25 yrs. so I know CA is not the most inexpensive place in the U.S. but some areas are less expensive than others, go a few blocks back from the beach for example. The same holds true for European cities. Sometimes an extra couple of underground stops can mean a big difference in price of the hotel too. When we were in Paris in April we stayed in a hotel right smack in front of the Eiffel Tower on the Trocadero and it was $93/night - not bad for the location altho the room was small (bathroom was very decent sized tho). By American motel/hotel standards tho this room should have been about $59-$69 per night, but you have to look at where you are and quite honestly Paris is alot more expensive than most places. April is a "shoulder" month travelwise, in the summer I'm sure that room is quite a bit more. We've also rented a studio apartment in London and having a kitchen is great for making breakfast, having snacks and cutting down on some expenses. We've been to London and Paris many times as well as some of the other European cities and London & Paris are very expensive, but you can still find decent hotels without spending a fortune. While the room may not be anything other than functional (bare bones) you really spend very little time in it anyway. Personally I cannot see spending $200 and up for a room, perhaps if I were to win the Powerball or had inheirited wealth I'd feel differently, but right now I have better things to spend my money on. We have always stayed in decent (clean & comfortable, with private bath "ensuite") and have never paid any fortune. <BR> <BR>I also think that people tend to relate costs in regard to where they live. If you life in NYC for example and are used to hotels being $150 and up it is probably "normal" to think that all hotels charge that. <BR> <BR>Many people on this forum have mentioned Travel Inns in England as a good buy - the ones in London are 69 pounds a night - which is about $110-112. They are similar in furnishings to a Motel6/Econolodge from what I can tell from the pictures. While they have absolutely no charm they do provide the American traveler on some sort of a budget with the sense of an American motel (not what I want, but to each their own). <BR> <BR>We've traveled a great deal and stayed in luxury hotels many in Hawaii, the Caribbean, etc. as well as in places in the U.S. and to be honest with you some of the best trips we had were not the ones we stayed in deluxe places. Unless you are forced to spend 2 weeks in the hotel room the room itself does not make the trip! <BR> <BR>I'm sure there will be people that disagree with me about all this, but it is possible to travel economically (not cheap, there is a big difference) and have a great time, stay in decent places and even eat well. <BR> <BR>If you are thinking of a trip ask questions of this forum - there are many people out there, including myself, who would be happy to clue you in on places to stay and ways to economize on travel and still have a super time.

ELIZABETH, If you want to see a fairly <BR>detailed budget for Europe travel then <BR>find my article on my favorite site. <BR>Go to www.initaly.com and look at their <BR>site map and go to " readers reports". <BR>Under that you will find the article <BR>which outlines projected costs for 3 <BR>levels of travel-2 star, 3 star, 4 star. <BR>You can spend what you need to to meet <BR>your standards. This should give you a <BR>parameter to begin with. Let me know what you think.

Elizabeth: I have thought the same thing when I see the $150-200 price tags, that is not inexpensive to us. We are leaving in September for a 3 week tour for 2 couples going to Venice, Praha, Budapest, Vienna, the Riveria, Chamonix, Paris and Beaune. In starting out, due to currency fluctuations we wanted to limit price per night to an average of $100 tops and that was pushing it. In some places such as Praha and Vienna that is tough, but other spots offset the difference. Our other requirements were private WC and shower, generally doubles, city center, atmosphere of the country. We began planning with researching the web, this forum,Rick Steves, and Frommers, as a result, we have 20 nights averaging $80 with all but 7 (in France)including breakfast. The riveria was the toughest. We ended up reserving in Villefranche sur Mer with a quad room but a terrace with a sea view. We did this also by starting last February making reservations. So, barring a decline in the US dollar, we will stay within our budget. By the way most are 2 and 3 * accomodations, 6 of the 10 have web sites, 7 have e-mail which makes it very easy. We are also flying over on frequent flyers, thanks to our daughters college tuition. So please do not think it is not affordable. By the way this is a driving tour that will take 2,200 miles and the car for 3 weeks (including insurance and drop off) is about $700 to be split between the 2 couples. So please do not give up on going and planning is alot of the fun.

Great replys! Wes and Lori I think you guys are right on about the expectations of American style accomodations. All the chain hotels available we usually do know what we are getting for what we pay. I have fortunately been able to find accomodations for myself and my husband for our 3 week trip in October for less than $100/night. Here is our itinerary: <BR>London - B & B "Mount View Guest House" <BR> is in the greater London area (N4) <BR>

Great replys! Wes and Lori I think you guys are right on about the expectations of American style accomodations. All the chain hotels available we usually do know what we are getting for what we pay. I have fortunately been able to find accomodations for myself and my husband for our 3 week trip in October for less than $100/night. Here is our itinerary: <BR> <BR>London - B & B "Mount View Guest House" <BR>is in the greater London area (N4) will <BR>be a longer tube ride to the central area, but for 55 pounds/night($90), you should see the website, the place looks quite lovely. <BR>Canterbury, Kent - B & B "Clare Ellen Guest House" 46 pounds/night($76). <BR>Brugge - "Le Pauw Hotel" 2400 BF/night($63) <BR>Germany - no set itinerary yet. Suggestions welcome - for the Rhine area between Cologne and Trier. <BR>Amsterdam - "Hotel Asterisk" 160NLG/night ($80). <BR>Please note all of the accomodatins include en-suite WC & shower.

Elizabeth, <BR>I'm so happy for you!!! The trip sounds marvelous and the prices sound realistic. I am sure you will have a terrific time. If you have any other questions please be sure to post them, this Forum is a great place to get info. I don't know how long you will be in London but you might want to consider getting a travelcard for the Underground if you are going to be there more than a couple of days. They sell them in various increments of days, but for the 7 day one you need to take a passport size photo of yourself (if you don't have an extra photo Walgreen's does them in like 5 minutes -- probably Savon Drug in CA does too) and buy a pass at the underground station. They are sold by zones, with most of the "tourist attractions" in zone 1. Depending upon where your accommodations are you might want to buy Zone 1 & 2 or one for all the zones. They are a real bargain if you plan on doing a lot of hopping in and out of the underground. <BR> <BR>October is a good month for travel too -- less crowds and still decent weather altho you might want to take things you can layer. We've lived in So. CA and now in AZ and it's always been difficult for me to figure out what to take because I just don't have "heavy clothes" living in this climate and I hate to buy special clothes for trips only. As you probably know from this Forum black is a nice safe color to wear almost anyplace and comfy shoes (2 pair) are an absolute necessity (for men and women alike)! Be prepared for rain, it's highly likely but also be prepared for the time of your life. <BR>If you have any other questions pls. post. Enjoy!

Thanks Lori, <BR>I live in the San Francisco Bay area, so I am very familiar with having to dress in layers. I've already purchased a great ankle length microfiber raincoat from London Fog to bring with us. It's a pretty taupe color so it will be a nice contrast from all the other black and grey tops and pants I plan to pack. <BR>I got some great responses from an earlier post I put up about the London travelcard. We decided to purchase one when we arrive instead of getting the Visitor travelcard purchased here, which would be more expensive. <BR>Your totally right this forum has some great information!

Hi! That is a very good question. $150 is a lot of money. I've only spent that much on a rare occasion while traveling. Occasionally we will treat ourselves, especially towards the end of the vacation. Last time we stayed by the airport as we returned our car there and were taking off the next day. Second I would like to dsay and I don't know if people will agree with me but Americans tend to stay at American Hotel chains, either because of familiarity, fear of the unknown, missing American style bkfsts. or the perception of larger rooms. When my wife and I travel we usually stay at either 2 or 3 star hotels. ALWAYS locally operated.. We have one requirement that it have a shower and wc in the room. Nowadays it is usually the rule anyway. The European hotels are enjoyable by and large and you get to meet other people in the dining room and other areas. wo yrs ago we stayed in a 4 star hotel in Budapest and the cost was about $70 USD. This was the Astoria. The other consideration is what country you are in. We went to Switzerland last year and could believe the prices. It was the equivalent of a NYC hotel everynight. It was my first and last visit. Paris is expensive also but resonably priced hotels can be found there as well as Munich. We were in Slovakia 2 yrs ago and stayed at a wonderful hotel in the Tatras, that would have made Poiret proud for a $40 USD per night. It depends on the country and how much you need pancakes and bacon and eggs in the morning. Most of these hotels do have people who speak English also. Another place we stayed in Krakow Poland was a wonderful 1 star hotel that lacked an elevator. For about $20 USD it was worth it to us. Read a guidebook that lists hotels and get ideas what prices are from those. You don't have to spend that much for a nights sleep. alan

Hi! That is a very good question. $150 is a lot of money. I've only spent that much on a rare occasion while traveling. Occasionally we will treat ourselves, especially towards the end of the vacation. Last time we stayed by the airport as we returned our car there and were taking off the next day. Second I would like to dsay and I don't know if people will agree with me but Americans tend to stay at American Hotel chains, either because of familiarity, fear of the unknown, missing American style bkfsts. or the perception of larger rooms. When my wife and I travel we usually stay at either 2 or 3 star hotels. ALWAYS locally operated.. We have one requirement that it have a shower and wc in the room. Nowadays it is usually the rule anyway. The European hotels are enjoyable by and large and you get to meet other people in the dining room and other areas. wo yrs ago we stayed in a 4 star hotel in Budapest and the cost was about $70 USD. This was the Astoria. The other consideration is what country you are in. We went to Switzerland last year and could believe the prices. It was the equivalent of a NYC hotel everynight. It was my first and last visit. Paris is expensive also but resonably priced hotels can be found there as well as Munich. We were in Slovakia 2 yrs ago and stayed at a wonderful hotel in the Tatras, that would have made Poiret proud for a $40 USD per night. It depends on the country and how much you need pancakes and bacon and eggs in the morning. Most of these hotels do have people who speak English also. Another place we stayed in Krakow Poland was a wonderful 1 star hotel that lacked an elevator. For about $20 USD it was worth it to us. Read a guidebook that lists hotels and get ideas what prices are from those. You don't have to spend that much for a nights sleep. alan

Good rule of thumb - if the city centre <BR>has more tourists than locals, either <BR>head for the outskirts or START LOOKING <BR>EARLY IN THE DAY. <BR> Don't believe official tourist agencies who may say the cut-price stuff <BR>is used up.They aren't always well informed. <BR> Prices vary wildly by time of year <BR>(eg Seville at Easter is supposed to be <BR>impossible, though twice I got a place easily by looking early in the day) <BR> Ask other travellers but ignore touts. <BR>Hotel prices are NEGOTIABLE.If the place <BR>doesn't look busy saying "is that your best price" or "I'm sure it was cheaper last time" will get you 10% off, especially in the UK.

Elizabeth - you sure hit the nail on the head!! I, too, live in the bay area and people wonder how I can afford to go to Europe every year on my salary because they've heard that London and Paris charge $200 a night. My criteria is similiar to other posters - $100 a night for a double with a wc and shower. I don't need a tv, phone, hair dryer, etc. I need a comfortable place to sleep and hot water in a decent neighborhood near public transportation. I prefer locally owned establishments run by people who speak a little English and can help me with restaurant and itinerary suggestions and provide a nice continental breakfast. Bed and breakfast establishments are great. We just stayed in one in Prague for $20 a night including breakfast. Have a great trip. You're well on your way. A word of warning though. We stayed at 2 places that had lovely websites and the reality was a little bit different.

In my opinion: <BR> <BR>$50 is cheap, <BR>$75 is inexpensive, <BR>$100 is moderate, <BR>$150+ is expensive, <BR>and a room at the Ritz in Paris is obscene.

Brian, That sounds exactly right! Maybe Fodor's should put a little key with dollar signs to help people, and they should also include some e-mail language info. for the cluesless like myself, at what IMO, etc means. Actually I did discover that this means "In my opinion", but it took me awhile. <BR> <BR>Well Linda, I sure hope these places turn out to be as nice as the websites. My husband is not picky at all, but I tend to have more discriminating taste. If we do arrive at a place, stay a night and find that we really don't like it for one reason or another, and we want to find another place to stay. Do they give you a hard time or charge you for your reserved time? I know here(in US) if you don't like a place, it's not that hard to say "I'm unsatisfied with your accomodations" and to do elsewhere.

Thank you Thank you Thank you I was thinking I was missing something. When I first started traveling, a single room was under $30 (most were around $20). It tore me up to have to rethink to $40, and then to $50 (which is maximum for Paris or London) - other places, I still look for (and expect) $20-25 per person. <BR>I've paid $200 for a room - for five people! <BR>If I needed a hairdryer, mini-bar, TV, laptop hookup and fax machine, I guess I'd pay the $75-100 per person. Fortunately, a towel, a bottle of water on the window sill, a book and a battery-run mini-light is my idea of dire necessities....

Elvira, you've forgotten the all-important washcloth.

Elizabeth, in the UK, at least, you have effectively signed a legal and binding contract with the guest house for them to provide so many nights accomodations at a specified price. If, after one night, you do not like the accomodation and want to move, they are fully within their rights to retain full payment - and many will!