What happens to your FF miles if the airline goes bankrupt?
 

Sould I use my miles ASAP or do they usually transfer to partner airlines? Anyone with experience in this area?

Do a search on this topic...there are numerous posting regarding UsAirways. Look on US Board also.

And do the airlines shareholders get their money back?

Don't be so stupid, your FF miles are the last concern of a bankrupt airline - the mass unemployment, loss of investor's monies, etcetera are all of more concern.

Oh no, you have to worry no longer about your FF miles evaporating, for I have singlehandedly saved them for you. You see, I've been amassing USAir miles toward a first-class international award. Yesterday, I capitulated and cashed them in for a trip to Europe in October, rather than risk losing them if the airline liquidates. So now that I've done that, the airline will probably not liquidate and your FF miles are safe!
;-)

Unfortunately, USAirways stock has been "de-listed" and they didn't get the deal they needed to lease/purchase more efficient regional jet aircraft.
Corporate, and other, travel agencies are tellinmg their clients to stay away from the airline. If they aren't forced to liquidate it will probably be a miracle to some and I'd like to see them survive.

According to recent reports it is HIGHLY unlikely that any other airline will take over the FF program. So I guess it is a question of how lucky you feel.

If you are an elite with USAir and you happen to live in a city that another major airline has good presence, you may be offered some kind of a deal by the other airline. Maybe 1/2 point for every one you have and they will match your status, maybe an even echange, or maybe nothing. Maybe the other airline will offer the same deal to every member of USAir's program living in the specific city(ies) or just every member regardless. Or maybe your miles will disappear into thin air.

The point I'm trying to make is that you will not have ANY recourse if the miles disappear. Every airline protects itself by clearly stating in the T&C of a FF program that it does have a right to pull the program at any time. No if, but, and, or, about it. It's as simple as that. The airline giveth and the airline could taketh away.

BTW, you can't just do a straight transfer of the miles to a partner airline (very few exceptions and usually a very bad exchange rate). You could take out a ticket on a partner airline, but that does not guarantee anything. The partner airline has the right to refuse the ticket if it has not been paid by your airline, and unfortunately in most cases the money exchange does not happen till at least a month after you pull the ticket and in some cases not till you actually take the trip.

So as you could see, it's a game that the average Joe usually looses. When a liquidation of this size happens, you and I are the last ones on any list to recoup some losses and when the creditors at the top usually only get pennies on the dollar, what do you think our chances are of getting anything? Slim to none and Slim usually leaes town VERY early.

Thanks to all. I did look over previous posts. I guess we do not have a crystal ball. Yes, I guess I am selfish since these "free miles" really help the budget traveler like myself. Unlike those who can afford to travel first class. I was thinking about Delta Airlines since I live in the South and they are our Airline. My travel agent
says she is holding on to ff miles so I guess I will also. Now I will go out and buy lottery tickets at lunch time. If I hit the "big one" I can also afford to fly First Class on any airline I wish!

Delta's situation is like day and night when comparing it to USAir, so I wouldn't worry just too much at this time.

The difference is that Delta is just bleeding money at this time, which WILL have to stop, but they are still credit worthy even if they go into chapter 11. USAir on the other hand lost it's creditworthiness and were delisted. It will be a mircle if they survive. At best I see them as a small regional airline in few months, at worst they will announce liquidation shortly.

Hope it doesn't happen but the writing is all over the walls. Hopefully many of their employees will be able to hook up with the other airlines, but many will loose out on this deal.

Got news for you AJ, many of those people you see in first class probably didn't pay for it. Either they've got miles and cashed them in, we're upgraded because of FF elite levels, or, in their flying on the companies nickel.

Even if they did pay for, don't forget that those $3,000 tickets to Europe help subsidize the $349 fares that some are trying to get for the same flight.

The stock being delisted by the major stock exchange is just an artifact of the bankruptcy. The stock still trades "off board", though it may not have any real value.

The FF miles are a combination of big asset/big liability to an airline. Airlines have the right to dump or devalue your miles at any time, regardless of whether they are in financial trouble. However, the whole point of FF programs is to create customer loyalty, so these are generally kept intact through bankruptcy or acquisitions. TWA being taken over by AA is an example.

The big question is whether the airline will re-organize and come out of bankruptcy (having shed some debt and cut pay), or dissolve (and if it dissolves, whether some other airline will pick up the pieces - including the FF program).

curmudgeon,

The only "asset" to a company is the possible continued loyalty of people in the program continuing to buy tickets.

The reality is..that frequent flyer programs are a contingent liability and will represent lost revenue in the future.

Well it cuts both ways, doesn't it, Dick? Contingent liability if it's your mileage plan members that will fly on other airlines, with bill coming to you; but other airlines' FFP members may be planning on flying on your airline, with the bill going the other way. Depending on the route system, it might wash or even be a positive (e.g. USAir's Caribbean route system is attractive to US partners' members.) I think FF programs come up under both assets and liabilities on audits and financial reports. Here's what USAir told Uncle Edgar this summer before their bankruptcy filing:

<i>US Airways accrues in Traffic balances payable and unused tickets the estimated incremental cost of travel awards earned by participants in its Dividend Miles frequent traveler program <b>when the requisite mileage award levels are achieved. US Airways also sells mileage credits to certain marketing partners.</b> US Airways defers the portion of revenue attributable to future transportation and recognizes it as passenger transportation revenue when the service is provided. The remaining portion of sales proceeds is recognized immediately as a component of Other operating revenues.</i>

A decent article on this at
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5774720/

The &quot;asset&quot; of continued loyalty of program members is enormous; especially to the extent that it includes business travellers who tend to pay higher prices for premium/flexible tickets. It is only of value to ongoing operations, of course, and only to the extent that it influences customer choices going forward. People do pay a lot of attention to the FF programs in their flight choices; the frequent travelers like their &quot;elite program&quot; perks, while the more casual travelers try to build up their balances for the europe trip or wherever. People won't necessarily pay a bunch more to fly on their preferred airline, but they may take a less convenient flight or alternate airport for the sake of the FF miles. Achieving brand preference for what is essentially a commodity product is quite valuable. Whether the current systems are sustainable, even for the non-bankrupt airlines, is a different question.

Curmudgeon...

I doubt that USAIrs FF program can be considered an asset.

What elite business traveller would want to book travel on USAir. What is the point of accumulating additional miles when most people question whether their existing miles are of value. I got rid of my USAir CC last year just for that reason.

IMO, at this point in time...USAirs FF program is strictly a liability.

Crudmugeon,
I'd say the bigger question whether or not the airlines are sustainable, let alone the FF programs.

Then only major airline that made any money the last few years was Continental. Interesting how their financial problems of several years, problems which forced them to improve operations and cost structure, may have actually made them more viable them former blue-chip names like American and Delta.

My advice is always cash in loyalty points ASAP. FF are an asset and a rival airline may purchase the points to get the loyalty but they will get them at a deep discount.