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Connie Sep 3rd, 2008 02:38 PM

What exactly encompasses Bavaria?
When I read about Bavaria, I think it includes Germany and Austria but that's all I know. What does Bavaria include?


J62 Sep 3rd, 2008 02:50 PM

Bavaria is one of the states of Germany - here the link to the wikipedia site

logos999 Sep 3rd, 2008 02:51 PM

The whole world, except for Prussia, which is defined anywhere that isn't Bavaria.
How about a map :D :D

quokka Sep 3rd, 2008 03:08 PM

Texas includes the USA and Mexico, doesn't it?

J62 Sep 3rd, 2008 03:22 PM

California. Is that part of the US or Mexico?

Tirol. Part of Austria or Italy?

The answer in both cases is yes - part of both. There are lots of examples where modern day political boundaries cutting ethnic, cultural, or formerly larger regions in two.

Unless you know all the history of a particular region, including boundaries that shift with wars, treaties and purchases it's not easy to know everything.

The fact that southern Germany and much of Austria share a similar language and many cultural traits makes connie's an understandable question.

Bird Sep 3rd, 2008 03:54 PM

Bavarians are made up of all people who drive BMWs and drink beer (preferably at the same time).

quokka Sep 3rd, 2008 04:53 PM

Just as understandable as mine...

nytraveler Sep 3rd, 2008 05:27 PM

Bavaria has nothing to do with Austria.

It is a large section of southestern Germany which until WWI was a separate country from Germany (thus all the recent Mad King Ludwig Castles from the 1860's). Bavaria had a King until 1918 when it was merged with the rest of Germany under the new Republic.

logos999 Sep 3rd, 2008 05:41 PM

>WWI was a separate country from Germany
I demand that even New Yorkers know when and where the German Reich was founded. :D
So please, do get your facts straight.
Ouch... :D and Thanks.

Connie Sep 3rd, 2008 07:07 PM

The reason I thought it might be a larger area than just part of Germany was because I recently read someone's question about going to Bavaria and she was planning to go to Germany, Austria and the BO of Switzerland.

Thanks to those of you who were helpful. I don't quite get why some felt the need to TRY to be funny or condescending.

logos999 Sep 3rd, 2008 07:22 PM

Yeah, I know European history is tricky. I.e. all most foreigners know about Germany is 1939(41) to 1945.

logos999 Sep 3rd, 2008 07:54 PM

But you have a point here. Since Bavarian dialects are spoken in much of Austria and they yet are not Bavarian but Swabian is spoken in parts of Bavaria and they are Bavarian all this is pretty much messed up.

Bird Sep 4th, 2008 08:28 AM


You don't like funny?

hanleyster Sep 4th, 2008 09:36 AM

Connie has no fun in her life.

nytraveler Sep 4th, 2008 10:09 AM

Sorry -

In 1871 von Bismarck "unifid" Germany as an Empire - still made up of many separate constituent States - under the Prussian Kaiser (caesar). However, Bavaria had a separate King (Ludwig #?) until 1918 - when the revolution after the fall of Germany in WWI restructured the entire country.

Austria had - for hundreds of years - been the center of the Austro-Hungarian Empire ruled by the Hapsburgs.

And Switzerland - as a confederation of "nations" has also existed as a separete country for hundreds of years.

The person who referred to Bavaria, Austria and Switzerland was just talking about going to several diffrent places on vacation.

As for the "Reich" starting in Bavaria - well I'm not surprised at anything that could come out of those beerhalls. But since it lasted only about 20 years and no longer exists - it is really immaterial.

Ingo Sep 4th, 2008 10:35 AM

After 1971 the German states were probably as independent as the U.S. States are currently. My state (Saxony) also had a King until 1918, but his power was reduced to almost zero.

Phil Sep 4th, 2008 01:39 PM did Württemberg. Baden, Hessen and others were grand duchies, Braunschweig, Anhalt etc. duchies, serveral other states were principalities; all with their courts, orders, pageantry and without any notable sovereignty regarding foreign policy. There were a few free hanseatic cities bringing some republican relief into the german Empire.

Hi Ingo, we're back in the Champions' league, got my tickets today :-)


Hagan Sep 4th, 2008 07:18 PM

Well, this is very informative to me, as I've been researching my family tree (which I thought was nearly 75 % Irish, LOL) and have traced many ancestors back to Baden-Wurttemberg, Hesse, and little towns such as Lobenrot and Strumpfelbach. Who knew? And I didn't realize that they didn't consider themselves "German" at the time. I'm doing this in the hopes of planning a trip that will encompass visits to some of these places. Thanks for the education.

logos999 Sep 4th, 2008 08:26 PM

The Reich as founded in 1871 in Versailles and was the first german national state.

clairobscur Sep 4th, 2008 09:42 PM

Your ancestors might have considered themselves Germans. It's just that there was no country called "Germany" until the late 19th century (the closest would have been the very early Holy Roman Empire, after the "France"/"Germany" divide and before the emperors lost all illusions of actually ruling the land).

In the same way, there was no country called "Italy" until roughly the same period. But there still were many Italians.

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