ilisa

My husband and I are expecting our first child in a few weeks. While we have no intention of taking her to Europe as an infant, I certainly don't want to wait 13 years to do so. So, what does everyone think? What age is appropriate to start taking children to Europe?

pam

when they can carry their own luggage...

greg

I can tell you about the other end of the age scale, by 13 yrs she would probably rather stay home and talk to her friends recapitulating what she had said to so and so yesterday instead of going on an all expense paid trip to Europe. Yah... I have two teenage girls.

Sheila

You may find this hard to believe but some are actually born here; and survive the experience

elaine

Sheila, I believe Ilisa meant
TRAVEL with children to Europe, travel being the operative word.

elaine

Sheila, I believe Ilisa meant
TRAVEL with children to Europe, travel being the operative word.

Michèle

For one it all depends on the child.

Unlike the majority of american parents european parents discipline their children, set boundaries, and as a result have well behaved children. This is not to say that you, Ilisa, will fall into that american category.

My perspective comes as a person born and for my formative years was raised in Paris until the age of 13 when my american mother and french father moved back to the US.

Now back to my original statement...

I am the mother of a smart, caring, yet semi rebellious 13 year-old daughter. My husband and I had decided to wait until she was this age to take her over to Europe. We took her last year to Switzerland and Italy and it was THE best experience for _all_ of us. It opened her eyes and mind to realize that there is more to Life than her little safe suburban neighborhood and her dorky friends.

During our 17 days overseas we couldn't believe how many americans were there with their small children, who again made me wonder 'who is in charge here?' Kids running around uncontrollably, making demands, and being generally noisy and ill-behaved. Even european children would look at their american counterparts in wide eyed disbleief. I wondered who was having a good time and truly getting anything out of such a trip?

So waiting 13 years is not such a bad idea.

May you be blessed with a happy and healthy child!

ilisa

Thank you, Elaine. I did mean travel to Europe. I didn't think people would be so touchy.

anna

I heartily agree with "when they can carry their own luggage" Ours were 9,11,and 14 and had a marvelous time.

Bob Brown

My son was 16 when he went to London with us. After we got there, I let him do a few things on his own. He went on a bus tour to Bath and Salisbury, which had only people from our hotel, and I let him take the Tube up to a wax museum, Madame Taussaud's maybe? And I let him have enough money to eat at a restaurant on his on; I just made sure it was one along Kensington High Street not far from the hotel. The whole experience seemed to mature him. Could he have done it sooner? Probably. But, at 16, he was old enough to enjoy The Mousetrap (Agatha Christie's play), Hampton Court, the Ceremony of the Keys, and Houses of Parliament. Rather than force him to go to The Nutcracker, he and some new friends watched British TV. He found it fascinating.
I think the secret is multifaceted, but allowing the child or children to participate in the planning and select a place to visit or an event to see would help. I grant you that on some the effort is wasted while on others travel plants seeds of thought.

I know one friend of mine was in Yellowstone with his shallow-minded daughter who fussed the whole time. Finally he got tired of his daughter's complaining. So, he did not even wait to see Old Faithful. Instead, he did the eruption himself, loaded everybody into the car and drove virtually non stop back to Greenville, Alabama. I am glad I was not a passenger in that vehicle.

Tony Hughes

Ilisa

Not being an expert on children I wouldn't like to mention a particular age but what i would say is this: It is only worth taking the child if they are going to gain something from the holiday. If they can take something positive from a European trip then bring 'em along. If they will enjoy the holiday because it is a holiday and nothing else then they may prefer to stay in USA. Cheaper as well, no doubt, if cost is a factor. I learnt a lot from going abroad every year with my parents but i cannot say i really ever payed that much attention to where I was when i was on holiday.

So, it's a hard one question that i cannot answer.

greg

Since you were probably interested in young side of the scale, here is my experience with our daughters. Not all the trips are to Europe. I will include both prospectives.

2yrs. Parents prospective-Obviously we had to carry all: toddler things, backpack carrier, etc. We had to stuff disposable diapers in all available spaces in our suitcases, they were not easy to find then. Sit down quietly for a long time attractions were off limit or only my wife or I got to do while other took care of her. Places to change diapers were hard to find, esp on a train. Child's perspective - she does not remember a thing.

5yrs: Parents perspective - still have to carry most of the luggage, but she could carry a day pack. Can sit thru short shows, museums ok by this age. Childs perspective-she rembers some of the major fun events from the trip.

5-12yrs: We all enjoyed travelling during this age group. Willing to try new food, marvelled at what they saw, and able to progressively carry their own things.

14yrs: Starting to fuss little bit on HAVING to spend time with us. Brings way too much clothes and shoes to the trips.

15yrs: Really threw fits during the trips wanting to stay home instead. We let them explore small cities on their own, they liked that.

Joanne

Michelle, why would you make such a prejudiced remark about American parents and American children? This reminds me of the thread finished a couple of months ago, where several of us argued about the relative knowledge, worldiness, and depth of American children versus European children. (This must be my punishment for my remarks about Parisians!)

To answer your question, Ilisa, travel with your children as early as possible.

We started out with beach vacations to Bahamas, Jamaica, Mexico, etc, when the kids were babies. Then progressed to vacations where the kids have to do a little sight-seeing, and have to behave in public, for instance at a restaurant. Our family policy is that each child gets to have a 9-year old trip with his dad to a destination in the lower 48 states, then a 15-year old trip with his mom. The kids have selected Las Vegas and San Diego with dad, and Boston and New York with mom. This is a great idea for developing some individuals bonds with your kids.

We returned from France and Italy last week with our three boys. We had a wonderful time, and I am proud of the way they behaved, partly I believe, because they have experienced from an early age the protocol of being away from home.

Did they all "get" the entire trip? No, of course, not. Our intent was to bait their hooks a little, give them just enough new cuisine, art, currency confusion, language experiences, and personal contact, to get them thinking outside of their box. Brooks at age 7 loved drawing in the museums. Taylor at 10 was into snails, the David, and currency conversion, being the shopper that he is. Nick at 15 was fascinated by the ancient stuff, and bought a huge poster of the Sistine Chapel to study more closely.

Travel with your kids!!! (And also travel without them...)

Maira

They are ready when the following two milestones happen:

- PHYSICAL- they can carry their own luggage (Pam, you are right on the money!)

- MENTALLY- When they can write about the experience.

M

Only if you have adequate vacation time and finances to also spend at least two weeks with Grandparents or live within 30 min. of Grandparents or have no Grandparents. Until my children were late teens, they and us spent EVERY vacation time with Grandparents downeast New England and those bonds, those memories are more precious on both sides than any trips to Europe or Disney World could possibly be.

Al

Some of the posters above remind me of a saying attributed to the late W. C. Fields: "Anyone who hates children can't be all bad."

Sheila

I didn't mean to be touchy. That was irony! or humour; or something.....

Mary

My husband's company has sent us over to Luxembourg to live and we've of course been traveling around Europe as much as we can while we have the opportunity to be based over here. We have 4 kids, ages 9, 6, 4, and 1. So, my perspective is from shepherding younger kids around.

My 9 and 6 year old have really enjoyed the experience and have been wonderful travelers. They don't get as much out of it as they would if they were older; despite our explanations, the historical significance of many of the sights they've seen hasn't completely sunk in. On the other hand, traveling has significantly broadened their perspectives and has changed how they view the world.

My 4 year old is another story. His view of Europe is that it's a really boring place that involves a lot of walking. He loves riding on the subways, but other than that he hasn't enjoyed too much. I wouldn't recommend bringing a pre-schooler to Europe. They are too young to grasp why you're going to the cathedral or the museum or whatever it is you're visiting, but they're old enough to be REALLY bored by it. It's been a challenge keeping him happy while we sightsee.

My 1 year old is a great traveler. Obviously, he will remember none of it, but he's young enough that he doesn't have the problem with boredom that our 4 year old has. He loves to ride in our backpack carrier; when he's tired he naps in it. Traveling with one this young has not slowed us down a bit.

So, those are our experiences, for what it's worth.

ilisa

Thanks, everyone. I've gotten some great advice. We definitely plan on travelling extensively (well, as much as my paltry vacation time allows) with our child, and will start at a fairly young age. Actually, I'm taking the baby to Florida when she is about 2 or 3 months to see my grandfather. Europe will wait a few years, but not many. I want to give my children what I never had. As for the person who suggested that we spend all our vacations with the grandparents - no way. My parents live 3 1/2 hours away in New Jersey and visit enough as it is.

Maria Angeles

I took my daughter for the first time when she was 9. We spent a month, flew to London, then flew to Paris, from then on we took the train to Switzerland, Monaco, South of France, Barcelona, Madrid and to visit family in Northern Spain. She had a blast and got infected with the travel bug. I bought her a simple camera and kept the itinerary pretty varied (we visited all the zoos that we could find), rode trains, boats, subways, buses, horse-drawn carriages, etc, and she even loved the Louvre.