Western Germany suggestions needed
 

My friends, wife and I are traveling from Paris to Western Germany to Amsterdam in July 2011. We need help deciding what city in Germany to make our home base and the best way to travel from country to country: budget airlines or train. We will be staying in Germany for 4 nights. Some options we considered: Cologne, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf. We would like to see as much of West Germany as we can and be able to travel from Paris and to Amsterdam inexpensively and as quickly as possible. We are a group of 6-9 people in our 30s. Natural beauty, good food, historical and cultural sights and authentic German experiences are some of the goals of our trip. Appreciate any help you can provide.

4 nights gives you 3 days - barely enough time to scratch one small area of Germany - never mind all of western Germany. You need to pick one spot, see that city and then spend a day with day trips. You might want to consider Cologne - and then a day trip to Aachen to see Charlemagne's capital.

I would base in Munich. Take one of your days to see Ludwig's castles and spend the rest of your time exploring Munich. Munich has a major airport so you can easily catch a flight to Amsterdam from there.

If I were doing this trip, I would fly to Frankfurt, train to the Rhine and stay in Rhine Gorge for a couple nights, take the train to Amsterdam, and then the high speed train to Paris and fly home from there. Makes for a more logical route and your trip will also build from small towns to larger cities, finishing with one of the worlds greatest cities.

I agree with oldmacdonald.

Okay folks, he said the trip was Paris to Germany (4 Nights) to Amsterdam. Rerouting him to Frankfurt for his first stop doesn't help, nor does Munich as a Paris - Amsterdam stopover. It would be nice if people could presume that OP's had a basis for their question and wasn't always asking for a subjective re-write of their trip.

Tough question jc. The three possible options you have posted aren't the best bases to see "as much of West Germany" as possible. They are, of course, good locations for quick rail connections on to Amsterdam.

Of the three, Frankfurt probably affords you the best options - you can see some the Rhine, or Mosel, and also visit Wurzburg, Bamberg, Nurnberg, or Heidelberg - places fairly distinct from each other - on easy rail day trips. If you stay any place smaller, you will have fewer options for 4 days of different German experiences.

Mainhatten Girl - why don't you light up jc.

On the other hand aramis, the original post said that any help would be appreciated. Often, when people are planning a trip so far in advance, their itinerary is not yet set in stone and it thus makes sense to offer suggestions on how to better lay out the travel route. If their itinerary is unflexible, then they can disregard the advice. This forum is about sharing information based on experience, I see nothing wrong with offering suggestions based on lessons learned over years of traveling. Go Oregon Ducks!!

I would fly one of those cheap airlines from Paris to Dresden and then train to Berlin and fly/train to Amsterdam. Stay in Dresden for 2 nights and move on to Berlin for the other two nights just to scratch the surface. There are plenty to keep all of you busy in both places.

You can get to Frankfurt from Paris on the train in a bit less than 4 hours. Basing in Frankfurt, you can travel up and down the Rhine, down to Heidelberg or Wuerzburg, over to Mainz and Wiesbaden, or to smaller, Medieval towns like Buedingen or Idstein, or just spend some time in Frankfurt itself. The city does have some very lovely and historical sites, depending on your interests of course.

For scenery, as well as traveling on the Rhein, go up into the Taunus mountains, visit Kronberg with its Staufen castle and the Johannes church or Bad Homburg and its Schloss as well as the Saalburg Roman fort.

Amsterdam is also a quick train ride away from Frankfurt.

Cologne would be a good base though too. Pull out a map and look at the surrounding towns to get an idea of where you can go and visit. Aachen would be at the top of the list.

Thank you everyone for your advice. Extremely helpful already.
Here's a little more about our plans to help continue the discussion.

The group experience is centered around 6 people for slightly less than two weeks. 2 people will be flying out of the States July 8th and leaving Europe July 24th. The broader group has different amounts of time off from work and different plans at the end of the group experience.

Amsterdam is essential for the entire group of 9.
Paris and Amsterdam are essential for the 4 people that have never experienced Europe and my wife and I.
The four (including the 2 with the shortest break) are headed to England afterwards to visit family, probably cutting slightly into the two week time frame.

My future wife and I will be headed to other destinations as part of our honeymoon after the group trip. In April, we toured Benelux. I toured with Contiki years ago and briefly visited some of the capitals and major cities (Paris, Berlin, Rome, Munich, Amsterdam, others). Being a man of some sense, I know my experiences with these cities have only just begun, but Western Germany would be new and my choice for Stop 2 with the group.

Only 6 of the bigger group are going to Paris so it became our first stop. The broader group will join us for our Stop 2 and Amsterdam. Amsterdam was chosen as our finale because of its proximity to London and because its wonderful Amsterdam.

Would love more feedback and will check out Frankfurt and the other suggestions now.

With major cities like London, Paris and Amsterdam in your plans, it would make sense to mix it up a bit and skip megalopolis Frankfurt in favor of the Rhine Gorge, as old mcdonald suggests above, and perhaps include a visit to the Mosel Valley as well.

You want "Natural beauty, good food, historical and cultural sights and authentic German experiences"? Not sure what authentic German experiences mean to you, but I don't think you could go wrong here with the rest. Use Koblenz (train hub for the region) as a base town and you can cheaply and easily daytrip to the following places:

Cologne (1-hour train ride; cathedral, museums)

Marksburg Castle (Braubach, 12-min. train ride + 20-30 min. walk) www.marksburg.de

Trier (Germany's oldest city, Roman sights, 1.5 hr. ride through the attractive Mosel Valley)

Burg Eltz Castle (near Moselkern, a 30-min train ride + 45-min. walk)

www.burg-eltz.de

www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html

WW II museum in Remagen (25 min. by train): www.bruecke-remagen.de

Half-timbered medieval villages 30-40 minutes by train: Bacharach, Linz, Boppard, St. Goar. You might train to Bacharach and take a cruise boat north to see another village or to return to Koblenz:

www.k-d.com

Except for Cologne, all these places can be reached on a daypass (the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket, 28 Euros total for 5 people traveling together on the regional trains.) For Cologne, well, the R-P ticket gets you as far as Bonn and back, but extra tickets would be needed for the short stretch between Bonn and Cologne.

From Koblenz, Frankfurt is also a possiblity but would require close to two hours to reach, and you'd already have more than enough on your plates, IMO.

Cologne is a good choice. I like Koblenz too, quaint but will be busy in 2011 with flower show.

Cities.....
I'd look at Trier. It offers you good access to Paris and Amsterdam with Luxemburg possible.

Natural beauty, good food, historical and cultural sights and authentic German experiences are some of the goals of our trip. Appreciate any help you can provide.

Trier was the capital of the roman empire for 30 years with many building left over. Some great local wineries, wonderful walks and crusing the mosel opportunity. If you want to look at this come back to me and I can avise on hotels etc.

German town web sites are great they go www.trier.de so finding them is easy and the tourist info is very good and normally in english

I went to Germany in May, We backpacked. We flew into Frankfurt and ended up staying for 3 days, it was AMAZING I LOVE FRANKFURT! the people are amazing, they have a great cobblestone downtown area, a zoo, the Zeil, which is a large outdoor shopping area, It's right on the river not far from the Airport, flights to and from are pretty cheap, I felt VERY safe in frankfurt and we stayed in a Hostel in the red light district next to the Haptbahnhof and walked from one end of frankfurt all the way to the other, and they have their famous APFELWEIN! Get a sampler! SO good!! Its a greta home base! and not far from Heidelburg or Mannheim

Just out of plain old curiosity, have ANY of those people who are going to be doing this trip offered ANY suggestions whatsoever as to the places THEY might want to visit or is this going to be "travel by dictation" mode?

It might make a lot more sense if the people who are actually traveling made the decisions as to where to go rather than a bunch of others. And that includes even the possibly really stupid ones.

I guess you are having trouble reading the OP's posts, Dukey. Try Dec 5 10:22 p.m..

I presume that your inference that he is dictating the travel plans of the group is cherished just slightly less the one that some of his travel companions are really stupid for allowing him to get away with it.

I suggest that your curiosity is misplaced; the unfortunate result of a serious case of transference. Were you the planner who got chided for dictating the plans for a group, or one of the (I won't use your adjectives) victims of such a deed?

Dukey, relax, take a deep breath, and lighten up. Life's too short to be angry and mean, especially when discussing the joys of travel.
Many thanks to all who have shared.
Russ, thank you. I've researched Koblenz and like it as a base. I'm trying to find apartments and research the trains now. I read that some of the river cruises are free with some of the Rail passes as well. By "authentic German experiences" I meant experiencing Germany as a guest, not a tourist. We discussed the change of pace of a smaller city as a good thing. Still discussing our options.
Bilbo, Trier is fantastic, but my wife and I were just there in April. We might go for a day with the group, but would rather stay somewhere new.
Found a Paris apt for 6 in the 11th Arrondissement we like. Any words of caution before booking? Appreciate any other suggestions or comments about German home bases and Rail travel for a trip like Paris-Koblenz-Amsterdam.
With gratitude

marking for later comment

We need help deciding what city in Germany to make our home base and the best way to travel from country to country: budget airlines or train>

Well for the train part and German cities to base in try these great, especially to plan a European rail trip, sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check out the latter's excellent IMO European Planning & Rail Guide available free on the site. If i were planning to base in Germany I would strongly consider Berlin, somewhere on the Rhine and Mosel (like storybook Cochem) and Munich - places that not only offer lots of things near the base but which are an easy train ride from lots of great sights to hop to from a great base.

"I read that some of the river cruises are free with some of the Rail passes as well."

That's quite true. But you can also pay for your 2 hour cruise (roughly 20 euros one-way for Bacharach to Braubach, for example.) And then for the Paris-Koblenz-Amsterdam trips, with some thoughtful, committed planning, you can save a ton of cash.

You can do both routes for about 68 Euros by purchasing limited-capacity tickets well in advance at www.bahn.de ; tickes go on sale 92 days in advance of your travel date. Paris-Koblenz goes for 39 euros, Koblenz-A'dam for 29. No free Rhine cruise, but quite the deal compared to a railpass. A 3-country 5-day railpass will cost close to $450 for select-pass version. The advance-sale ticket saves you about $360 each to buy a $30 cruise ticket and to chip in $8 or so each per day to buy your Rheinland-Pfalz daypasses for daytrips from Koblenz. And you still have about $300 left over for Mosel wine.

Apartments: always a little tricky to find them in cities. I looked at Koblenz' website. This one (Stadtoase - "oasis in the city") in Koblenz is located near a train stop and just across the Mosel from the old town. There are two, each with kitchen and bath, that accommodate 3 each; 43 Euros for the 1-BR + sleeping couch unit and 39 euros per night for the studio unit with beds for 2 + sleeping couch. Click "Wohnung I" for apartment #1, II for #2; click "Anfrage" to send off a request.

http://www.stadtoase-koblenz.de/

check the Holiday Flats box for a map view of apartments:

http://www.koblenz-touristik.de/en/city-map.html

There are 4 listings right in the old town too.
http://www.koblenz-touristik.de/en/city-map.html