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West country driving: an etiquette question for annhig

West country driving: an etiquette question for annhig

Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 11:11 PM
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West country driving: an etiquette question for annhig

We're currently driving round Devon.

At home, it's a grotesque breach of manners to meet an oncoming car in a narrow road and not mutually wave in recognition (or anticipation) of one ceding the right of way to the other. Kind of thing that marks a car down instantly as belonging to a cad or merchant banker

Here, no-one seems to do it. Not just 4x4 drivers who obviously live in Notting Hill, but even people in beaten up mid-1990s cars showing all the hallmarks of local living, sail past without so much as a casually raised right hand. Even if you've reversed quarter of a mile for them. Only tractors who've kept you waiting five minutes or more seem to bother.

And the issue arises dozens of times a day. I acknowledge: the other doesn't. I'm beginning to feel like an American putting a jacket and tie on to go to an English urban church or a London play.

Is this some hidden code to sort out the full timers from the weekenders? Are manners notoriously sloppy in Devon (I'm sure they've got the same code in Cornwall we have at home). Or is the county so stuffed in midsummer with domestic tourists the handful of remaining native Devonians are just frazzled?
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Here in Lincolnshire, marks of acknowledgment range from a cheery wave to a raised forefinger. Sorry to hear the Devonians are so churlish! (waiting for anhig...)
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 11:29 PM
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Yorkshire folk wave at anything but especially if giving way on narrow streets and country lanes.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 11:36 PM
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They may have a sixth sense that you're not from round there.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 12:57 AM
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well, flanner, i must say I'm surprised, but perhaps it is a judgment on you for not coming further west to visit us it Cornwall where the convention is most definitely observed, to the extent that if someone doesn't do it, there is a shaking of the head and a muttering of "not Cornish, then".

in fact the convention here is that once driver A has reversed/maneouvred/whatever, Driver B raises hand in thanks, and Driver A then raises hand to thank Driver B for thanking him/her. if you're really lucky, this exchange can carry on for some time, including the swapping of e-mail addresses.

There are local variants - bus drivers favour the finger raised ever-so slightly from the steering wheel, but will then flash their lights as well in a sort of 2for1 thank you, and white van drivers plead the 5th and never stopping for anyone.

My pet hate are those, emmetts or otherwise, who spotting a narrowing of the road speed up so as to make sure that you will be trying to pass at the narrowest place - I still find this strange as they risk scratching their own car as well as yours. closely behind these are the idiots who fail to realise that I am waiting for someone to coming towards me to come past, and overtake me only to meet the other car head on.

so flanner, I can only respond that you have reaped what you have sown, but wish you otherwise a pleasant holiday "up country". [ie east of the Tamar].
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 02:20 AM
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The rules of courtesy for country roads also apply on crowded city streets. A two-lane road near us has houses on one side and open ground on the other. The side with houses usually has many cars parked, so the rule is that people driving on that side give way to those coming the other. That is unless one vehicle is already coming past the parked cars, probably on the wrong the side of the road, in which case you wait until they have come through. You wave your thanks to one another.

People who do not follow these rules are despised, although there is no real punitive sanction available beyond a sneer and a shaken fist. It is considered very ill-mannered by those of us with strong opinions on the matter.

In "Notes from a small island", Bill Bryson describes going to live in Yorkshire, and getting known by other residents.

"But gradually, little by little, they find a corner for you in their hearts, and begin to acknowledge you when they drive past with what I call the Malhamdale wave. This is an exciting day in the life of any new arrival. To make the Malhamdale wave, pretend for a moment that you are grasping the steering wheel. Now very slowly extend the index finger of your right hand as if you were having a small involuntary spasm. That's it. It doesn't look like much, but it speaks volumes, believe me..."

The Malhamdale wave exists throughout Britain.

I have always been surprised at the difficulties overseas visitors experience driving on British narrow roads, with their reports of nearside scratches and dents and lost wheel trims. Is this because they are worried about crossing the central white line? In my experience, where space is restricted the white line is ignored, and drivers position their vehicles to leave space all round and to give a clear view round corners. When you meet another vehicle, you may have to squeeze in, or maybe reverse. Even passing driver's side to driver's side is not followed on the narrowest roads, or if you meet a combine harvester or a herd of cows.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 02:59 AM
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Is this because they are worried about crossing the central white line? >>

possibly, though on most narrow cornish lanes, if it ever existed, it got worn away a long time ago to be replaced by a pretty strip of grass and weeds.

as for punitive sanctions, I have been known just to sit and look at someone who has failed to abide by these unspoken and unwritten rules, until in the end he [and it almost invariably is a he] gives in and reverses. a cheery wave as I go past serves to re-inforce the message.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 03:02 AM
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How rude. It's like people not saying thank you when you hold a door open for them. If someone stops for you, whether they have right of way or you do, you can make the effort to at least raise your fingers from the steering wheel to says thanks (and do the same in return to acknowledge their thanks). Except white van drivers of course, or taxis. I wouldn't stop for them.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 03:45 AM
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Even in London we do the wave, even though no one will believe me. A few spoil it for the rest, but here they are as likely to get a full on bout of road rage as a result instead of a quiet glare.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 04:13 AM
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but here they are as likely to get a full on bout of road rage as a result instead of a quiet glare.>>

the worst you get here is a mild repost!
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 10:16 AM
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I can't imagine what's going on where flanner is driving. I've driven a fair amount in the west country and haven't experienced that. A mystery

re >>Is this because they are worried about crossing the central white line?
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 10:27 AM
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"you have reaped what you have sown"

No. I'd have thought that raising the hand would shame them into reciprocating. It doesn't.

I've come to the conclusion that on some roads, by the end of summer, locals are just so nackered at the sheer exhaustion of simple trips to the nearest bakery or boozer they've got no time for politeness. The perverse cocktail of endless pub & shop closures, rapid growth in domestic tourism AND harvest time add up to traffic levels throughout those pesky but charming Devon lanes that make daily life a real pain for those living here year round.

The waving ritual is modestly charming for a few days for those of us from somewhere it happens rarely. I suspect having to go through it several dozen times just to pick up a pint of milk must get the declining full-time population counting down the seconds till the week after Bank Holiday when they can get their roads back.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 10:34 AM
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"I have always been surprised at the difficulties overseas visitors experience driving on British narrow roads, with their reports of nearside scratches and dents and lost wheel trims. Is this because they are worried about crossing the central white line?" Chartley

No, nothing to do with the line and everything to do with disorientation & over-compensation while driving on the unaccustomed side of the road. I've been a passenger in a car being driven in the UK by another American and it's a harrowing experience. Shrubs and road signs flying by my head too closely and occasional contact. I might add, my English friends do the same thing while driving on the right side here. I make a concerted effort in the UK to move more toward the center after bashing a mirror on a narrow street in Lyme Regis.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 10:56 AM
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"Even in London we do the wave, even though no one will believe me"

Absolutely. ESPECIALLY White Van Man. Even some Chelsea Tractor drivers (though rarely female ones with their brats) Even in Chelsea. Even in Notting Hill.

"Is this because they are worried about crossing the central white line?"

On Devon lanes? Or Cotswold ones, for that matter? The only white line ever seen in the past thousand years has been if a milk tanker's leaking.

"They may have a sixth sense that you're not from round there."

You may be right. We may be using Cotswold or Islington rules for some nuance of where to pull over, or how much space to allow, or synchronising that "both move simultaneously" manoeuvre real foreigners can't believe we're mad enough to try. Perhaps there's a Devonian flourish we're missing.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 10:56 AM
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As a daily commuter between Wales and Somerset, which is not quite Devon I know, but I have to say I find that West Country drivers are very polite drivers, in fact I frequently sit at roundabouts and watch while they all call the other car on, meanwhile i stick my foot down and leave them to it.
it must go something like this-
"after you" -"no no no no after you" -'nooo nooo nooo after you" "no no no I insist after you"

95% of drivers acknowledge me if i pull over or let them through on a passing space.

I can only suspect that in Flanners case, word must have got round that he was visiting.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 12:26 PM
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"you have reaped what you have sown"

No. I'd have thought that raising the hand would shame them into reciprocating. It doesn't.>>

flanner - you misunderstood. it was by stopping at the Tamar that I meant you had fallen into error - I was assuming that you were offering the customary greeting to fellow drivers who inexplicably fail to respond.

fact is, they just don't like the cut of your jib, old bean. go west, young man, go west!
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 01:21 PM
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Mucky, we have a pair of cartoon chipmunks named Chip and Dale, who exhibit just the "after you" "oh, no, no I wouldn't think of it! After you!" Alfonse and Gaston behavior. Perhaps they are from the West Country.

In Texas, at least, the solid white line is not legally supposed to be crossed, although that bit of annoying law is honored in the breach, mostly.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 02:44 PM
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Hell, there's not enough room for a white line in west country roads !!
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Old Aug 24th, 2013, 12:13 AM
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My reference to crossing the centre white line was not referring to single lane roads where there is only room for one car anyway. I was thinking of those roads which are wide enough for two cars to pass if they are going in opposite directions and take care. Ignoring the white line and positioning oneself a good distance from the hedge/wall/ditch on the left seems a common British practice. My experience in the United States is that driving rules are taken more literally, both in terms of driving practice and in terms of the law.

My American sister-in-law was shocked when I ignored the stop sign at the exit to a National Park campsite. I thought that as the ranger's box was obviously shuttered and out of use, it would be silly to stop and immediately drive on. To her, a stop sign was a mandatory instruction.
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Old Aug 24th, 2013, 12:51 AM
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It's the same with crossing roads. If there are no cars, then we cross regardless of traffic signals, although now I have grandchildren, I have to wait hours for the green man to appear.
Canon Chasuble was once ordered back onto the pavement at gunpoint.
However, he didn't fare as badly as this professor
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/j...tion.education
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