West/Central European Plan
 

Hello, Fellow Travelers! I've spent a few weeks plotting out a month in Europe this September and would like some recommendations from those familiar with the countries/cities we will be visiting. We will not be renting a car and plan to take trains and/or buses to move around. I love the trains in Europe, so a long train ride gives both of us time to relax and enjoy the scenery. We were talked into driving around France last year and hated every minute in the car.

To start, we will be flying from the US to Amsterdam for 3 days with day trips to Alkmaar and Edam for a cheese. Then we are planning an 8-day river cruise from Amsterdam to Basel. From Basel, I anticipate a morning train to Munich where we will spend 2 nights. From Munich we will move to Salzburg for 2 nights (day trip to St Wolfgang). Next stop, Vienna for 5 nights (day trips to Bratislava, Krems, and Budapest). On to Linz for 4 nights (day trips to Melk and Hallstaat) and then Prague for 4 nights (day trips to Kutna Hora and Karlsteju).

I would like some advice if I'm spending too much or too little time in my itinerary in any area. Any festivals going on we shouldn't miss? Any day trips I should be adding or deleting?

Thanks for your help.

How are you going to make Budapest a day trip from Vienna? It's 3+ hours by train each way.

That's not much time in Prague if you're blowing two whole days of your 3.5 out of town.

The way this trip is laid out, it seems you think transport from city to city is instantaneous. It's not. You lose many hours (up to 1/2 day) traveling and that means you have few full days in any one place. Like Salzburg - you have one full day there and you'll spend it outside Salzburg. In Linz, you have three full days and you're blowing two outside the town; ditto Prague.

For oodles of great info on trains check these info-laden sources- www.seat61.com clues you in on how to book your own discounted train tickets; www/budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. As you are traveling trains a lot in central Europe check out the European East Railpass, valid in Austria, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia -just hop on most any train anytime - 1st class is a really good deal vs 1st class tickets and provides full flexibility to chose which trains at which times you want once there and not book in stone as discounted tickets oft require weeks early to get them.

Same is true for Amsterdam, especially the Alkmaar trip. Also "cheese" is an interesting reason. Alkmaar is a beautiful city (Edam is less so), but "cheese" would not be high on my list of priorities. The Alkmaar cheese market is a tourist trap.

Thanks, PalenQ. I have been spending time on the Austrian rail site and will look into the others you mention.

I've been to Amsterdam before, but prefer to be in the country a few days before the cruise departure. So day trips work for me. What cities in the Amsterdam are would you recommend for day trips?

Done a zillion of day trips by train.

Haarlem is close and could be a nice alternative base for Amsterdam - lots cheaper hotels and great train service

Delft is a classic day trip - neat old town with famous Delftware Factory/museum to visit

Utrecht, Leiden, Den Hague and on and one so so many. What are your interests?

Have to agree with BigRuss that you need to factor in travel time. I plan my trips on blank calendar pages (print them off one of the free internet sites). I put in where I am spending the night, and then the travel time to the next place. Plus, you have to allow for packing and checking out and getting to the station/airport, and then the reverse at the other end.

In particular, Budapest is one of my favorite cities, and I can't imagine just spending a few hours there. Maybe save it for another trip. Melk is usually visited as a day trip from Vienna, using train and boat, have you looked at the transport from Linz? Also, Hallstat has become very popular and would be better as an overnight so you can enjoy it after the day trippers have gone.

No, I do not think transport from city to city is instantaneous. Perhaps I am reading too much into your reply, but I am not an idiot who has never spent time abroad or traveled in Europe by public transportation. If that is not your intent, I apologize for my sensitivity, but please keep in mind the tone of a response can intimidate people from asking for advice.

If you have any constructive advice, e.g., you would spend x days, in each of the major cities I mention, put Budapest as its own destination and eliminate specific day trips, that would be helpful.

Alkmaar is a great day trip even without old-fashioned cheese market - Friday mornings only of course - I loved it. Yes a tourist trap but a lovely lovely one IMO - locals I find often jaded to these things as one would expect but in eyes of foreign tourists the old cheese market is sweet. And yes the town of Alkmaar is wonderful all around. Could easily hit Zannse Schanse and windmills the same day by train.

Edam - did not see much cheese stuff there - and not much of a town though rows of old warehouses lining old port redolent of days when it was a thriving seaport. Gouda is a great regional town with more apparent cheese stuff IME.

Yes just a day in Budapest is sacrilege to some but for me a day can be great as most things of interest are bundled together in the castle area. Also did day trip to Bratislava from Vienna and was great. Agree Melk is easier from Vienna because you can buy all-inclusive ticket for train to Melk, abbey entrance, boats to Durnstein (great stop) and buses to Krens for trains back to Vienna. Maybe Krens to Linz is shorter than I think but overall Melk and Wachau Valley seems easier from Vienna.)

Your basic problem is that you are traveling to all kinds of places (expensive and time-consuming) with the intention of leaving them to go elsewhere on day trips. It may not be idiotic, but it's hardly sensible.

I'd maybe scratch Linz and add Hallstatt as a base - for forays into high Alps and can do day trip to Lake District from there or go via Lake District from Salzburg to Hallstatt. And add two days just for large cities like Vienna and Munich.

You’re not reading too much into the reply. No need to apologize - you’ve pretty well nailed the problem in this forum.

You got constructive advice - you're taking a lot of day trips with little travel time for the places that you're actually going to. As for how many days in which place and where, who knows? You haven't told us your preferences, your travel style, nor what you're looking for other than that you don't want to hire a car (which is fine considering the cost of the drop charge in another country than the one in which you hired it would be unreal and you'd have to buy vignettes for most of your destinations). Do you want to see castles, abbeys, museums, WWII sites, Holocaust sites, Habsburg historical sites, Life Under Communism (for the countries west of the Iron Curtain), something else? There's a reason or two that you're going, those reasons enable paring down or reconfiguring your itinerary but you haven't disclosed them.

This statement by PalenQ, however, is absolute bollocks: "a day in Budapest is sacrilege to some but for me a day can be great as most things of interest are bundled together in the castle area." The notion that "most things of interest" in Budapest are bundled in the castle area is completely off. The city is a physical and linguistic portmanteau of two cities, Buda to the west and Pest to the east, formerly split by the Danube. Buda Castle is in Buda as are Fisherman's Bastion and Gellert Hill, the latter two of which are walk-bys. The beating heart of the city is ACROSS THE RIVER in Pest as are the Parliament, St. Iztvan's Cathedral, Dohany Utca and the Jewish Quarter, Andrassy Utca and the various embassies and museums including the House of Terror, the Opera House, City Park, Liszt Ter, Deak Ter and more.

I agree with BigRuss -my blunder from hazy memory - the highlights of the city to me were in the castle area and I did spend several days in botgh Buda and Pest off and on and never did just a day trip. Just should have said that a day trip is better than no trip at all. Mea culpa!

For my interests, bare minimums would be 4 days for Amsterdam, more if you want ANY day trips. 2 days for Basel. 3 or 4 days for Munich, depending on whether you include Dachau. Salzburg 2 days (which means 3 nights), more if you want a day trip. 6 days for Vienna, not counting day trips; 5 days for Budapest. 4 days for Prague, not counting day trips. And FWIW, I travel HARD! And these times do NOT include travel time (let alone the time you need on either side whenever you relocate).

But that's just MY interests. What matters is YOUR interests, about which I don't believe you have spoken.

I tend to believe that there are often two (or more) sides to any story, so while I can understand that you might find the tone of some responders objectionable, I can also see that those people might honestly believe that they are being constructive and – if so – they might find your response ungrateful, which I suspect is not your intention at all. I’m not trying to judge anyone’s intent or to say any reactions are wrong. I’m just noting that I can understand that people who generously give of their own time with the intent of being helpful might legitimately assume that the fact that they took the time to respond is evidence of that intent, regardless of tone. FWIW, I think there is great value in trying to assume that people meant well, and no matter what intention to attribute to others, to try to find what is helpful in their input. JMO. My advice? Ignore tone and ask what you want.

Regarding the Austrian portion of your itinerary, some thoughts:

Just curious, why Linz? Of the eight Austrian capitals we have visited, this one "wowed" us least, even with our interest in WWII history. Bregenz is the only capital we haven't visited, but I know I will love it because of the cheese and the mountains. :)

Perhaps organizing your destinations in a more linear manner would help to avoid backtracking? Add an extra night to Salzburg to day trip to Hallstatt; or stay in Hallstatt overnight. Then base in Vienna for an extra two nights (for the popular Vienna-Melk-Krems-Vienna day trip and the Bratislava day trip). Budapest as a day trip from Vienna is brutal. We have done that with insistent visiting friends and families and it is a whirlwind, even though we "know" our way around. Add the final Linz night to Prague.

The time of year for your travel is an excellent one to be in Austria. Numerous harvest festivals, vineyard wanders, and Almabtrieb are underway. There are similar activities in and around Prague, too, to augment your extra time.

Florida:

You are only an idiot if you complain about someone attempting to help you. If you don't want the advice, do not ask.

Here are you train travel times:

Basel - Munich 6 Hrs.
Munich - Salzburg 1.46 Hrs.
Salzburg - Vienna 2.25 Hrs.
Vienna - Linz 1.13 Hrs.
Linz - Prague 6 Hrs.

Now, my constructive suggestion:

Suggest you drop Linz and add days to Munich, Salzburg and Vienna. You can catch Melk on your way to Vienna (or from Vienna) and Hallstatt as a day trip from Salzburg (2.25 Hrs.) To me, you are backtracking from Vienna to Linz and unless you have the hots for Linz, as a must see, why go there? Spending additional time in the 3 larger cities is preferable to me. Train travel time Vienna to Prague is 4 Hrs.

You do not just want to catch Melk en route to Vienna but do the fantastic Wachau Valley boat trip too - best done as a day trip from Vienna (or Linz) and not enroute as you have bags to carry around.