To dial from America it is 011-353-1-666-6000

Thanks Siobhan, I've figured that out using your previous examples. But my daughter is in London, so instead of 011 it's 00, right? At least that's what I told her.

You told her right, Nikki.

Yes 00 353 1-666-6000.

The hotel called her yesterday. They were looking for receipts for the stolen iPods, which I take as a good sign. But the night watchman apparently told the management that only $20 in cash was stolen, which is VERY much lower than the actual amount.

I presume the "night watchman" was the night porter. He is supposed to have some responsibility for security, for instance in making sure that non-residents are not wandering around the hotel at 3 a.m.

How did he know how much was taken?

I believe (and now we're in she said he said territory) my daughter told me that he said that's what the kids told him at the time.

Either he has an appallingly bad memory or...

Having just returned from Ireland,I was very impressed with the neatness of the countryside and saw very little in the way of poverty.The houses were generally all freshly painted and well kept.The people were friendly, as almost all have indicated on this board.I did experience some young people begging in Dublin but not sure if this was mostly drug related.Things are expensive and as a general comment, the food was much better than I expected.As an Irish American, I would not be comfortable wearing orange in the Republic of Ireland knowing the history.

billo1409 wrote: "As an Irish American, I would not be comfortable wearing orange in the Republic of Ireland knowing the history."

As an Irishman, I have to say that to me this makes no sense whatsoever. The only issue is the one Lawchick mentioned at the beginning of this thread: fashion.

After reading your post, billo, I kind of wonder what you were expecting to find in Ireland.

"Twas ever thus with expatriates. Hence all those people who fossilised their view of Britain when they left for the other side of the world in the 1950s..."

- The situation in Australia is somewhat different, though. For many years Australians of Irish descent maintained a sense of grievance, and bigotry on both sides was alive and well until a few decades ago, but their ire was mostly aimed at the English-Scots Protestant ascendancy in Australia. For the great majority Ireland itself was too far away, and its travails too remote, to warrant much attention.

Mercifully there's been very little of the maudlin idealisation of the Ould Sod that seems to characterise the Irish-American experience. A string of Hollywood movies of revolting sentimentality (ironically, more often than not made by Jewish studio bosses) can take some of the blame for that, maybe. Until recently, when some people realised that they could make money out of it, St Patrick's Day tended to pass unnoticed by the great majority.

Unlike an Irish-American, you will never, ever hear an Australian of Irish descent described as an "Irishman", and for that matter seldom as an "Irish-Australian". Perhaps that's because so many Australians, myself included, have some Irish ancestry that the term is practically a tautology. In the mid-19th century an outright majority of Australians was Irish-born or had Irish roots.

As for expats with fossilised views of their homeland, there are some good examples among the stream of Australian writers and performers who left for London in the 1950s and 1960s and now occasionally breeze back into town carrying ludicrously outdated ideas of Australian society. Prime offenders are comedian Barry Humphries, critic Clive James, academic Germaine Greer and retired soprano Joan Sutherland.

billo1409: Sorry, but that is just plain silly. Maybe you've spent a bit too much time in some "Irish" bars in Boston - - otherwise I can't imagine where you got such an idea. Your 7 days in Ireland, gave you a bit of a taste but maybe not too much insight . . . . .

billo; there is a homelessness problem in Dublin, but they are all well-catered for; this is the work we as an Order do all over the world, caring for the homeless. Ireland is so far managing to stop the appalling rich/poor divide there is int he US and canada - our Mother House is in canada - Sometimes we get a report re children running wild in Dublin; so we check with the Salvation Army and we learn that they are runaways from abusive homes. They will not go back; they are fed and clothed and know where to find food and shelter and help. There are many voluntary roups caring for them and we will have Sisters in Dublin soon to help. There are always those who have been sleeping rough so long they are unable to cope with any other life style.

I honestly do not think anyone bothers what colour you wear.. orange is not a fashionable colour... I would be more wary of wearing a Union Jack..

After reading your post, billo, I kind of wonder what you were expecting to find in Ireland

That struck me too.
Was he expecting picturesque tumble-down cottages with bare-foot colleens in front of them?
Neil makes a good point. You don't seem to get hyphenated Australians.
Also, the earliest and largest group of Irish to go to America were the so-called Scots-Irish and they don't seem to do that sentimental stuff.

Author: anchoress
Date: 07/19/2007, 02:35 am
billo; there is a homelessness problem in Dublin, but they are all well-catered for.


Anchoress

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but you are mistaken if you believe this.

I think this post has gotten far too serious. I have only been to Ireland 3 times, but I did grow up being very close to my Irish grandparents, and my father might as well have been born in Ireland. My experience is that the Irish do lament their woes (as many others do, with much less poetry.) But they also celebrate their joys with such zest and with a love of life beyond compare.

From my families' teachings, the Troubles have not been religious, but more about possession of land. It should be one country, but they have moved on and hopefully all will continue the peace. By the way, last year I wore an orange hoodie from Galway to Tipperary, and I was welcomed by all.

Homelessness is not a major problem in Ireland compared to some other countries. Granted, though, any homeless person should constitute a major problem.

Have a look at the http://www.feantsa.org website for more information.

lucielou; not sure what you mean? we get reports from tiem to time, because folk know the area of our interest and expertise.. and the reports can be alarming.. like "children living like cats".. so then we contact the Salvation Army in Canada, with whom we work closely, and they contact their people in Dublin... we do this every time this comes up because we care very deeply. And, remember, we have been working with the homeless for 150 years. Yes, there are these 'warrens' of children especially. And yes, they are being helped insomuch as it is possible to help them - without imprisoning them in children's homes.. which would, after the decades of child abuse in such homes in Ireland - never be allowed to happen again. Even with children, you can only give help where it is acceptable. These are runaways; abused kids who hate authority. So, as we said, they always know where to find food and a bed and care. Same with the adults; if they are rehomed within six mnonths, they can be helped, but all too soon they become habituated.. again, there are plces they can go for food and shelter. These organisations are well funded and caring; we offered help when we came here and were told that this was not needed. The grants they got last year were large. And thankfully, Ireland is dealing with the homeless problem before it reaches the terrible scourge it is in the US and Canada. We work there with all who strive to help these thousands of street people. Here, we are sometimes approached by people who say they are homless; then they tell that they are sleeping with friends etc... always we refer them to Social Welfare etc.
Blessings this night

OK as a inner city dweller (a bit on the edge now) I can say its sort of in between what you both think. I have an apt I now rent out in an area close to some of the shelters. I have never seen warrens/packs of homeless kids or aware of them in the city but I have seen teenage junkies and alcoholics. I have seen a lot of young prostitites that no long hang in my area that were a fix or two away from dying. Some looked so thin under sheep skin coats which I found a strange sad sight. We also always said hello in a weird neighborhood way as you would recogonise one or two after a while. They never caused other women any problems who lived there.

There are lots of excellent resources but its hard to get someone off the streets if they have been there for a long time. I think people can becoome sort of Feral when on drugs and drink living rough. Any child "found" would and should be housed by the state as it is illegal for a minor to be on the streets no matter what the situation. But...Putting a child in a B&B is inappropriate as there are few child facilities. I watched every day my Neighbors from the hostel get paid, go to the new super cheap off licence and buy all their booze and sit outside all day and get piss drunk. They never hassled me very often and looked out for our building in a weird neighborly way while we all kept our distances. These men had lost their families and were life long alcoholics with little hope of recovery. It took them a lot to get drunk at that point. I find more are male hostels like the simon community for Addict or Drugs and booze. I am sure there are a few kids around but I think it was worse in the inner city 50 years ago with poverty and abuse.

Weel said, Siobbhan.. Sadly the kids are there, as the Salvation Army admit. They stay hidden... I have met some wonderful people who help them in secret. And yes, adults become habituated very quickly indeed.Blessings

Keep up the good work. Its a problem pretty much for every nation wethere its more underground or not. I do not though give money to beggars I on occassion give to some who look truly in need and I see a few regulars in Dublin like a women who suffered a troke and goes around the grafton street area. She is known to many and we all drop her a few coins as some are frightened of her as she cannot speak properly but I realised she is not nuts she probably had a stroke and is completely harmless and I always tell people I am with she is ok and give her a few coins. Other people have come in lately and its getting a bit dodgy but thats a part of being in the EU and we have to work with eachother and see where and why begging migranyts are coming from etc.

We advise never to give cash; many we help in eg canada re drug addicts. So we say to give money to the folk helping them, or give in kind.. a hot drink on a cold day or a good sandwich ... that way you know it will do them some real good.... Remind me one day when we are less rushed to tell you about "the man who walks"... Blessinsg this day..deep in jam and knitting...

Its hard for some not to give cash as irish tend to drop a few coins to someone who looks needy especially outside the Churches. I did give 10 euro to a Junkie once because I could not bear to see someone in so much physical pain and I felt he would not be around in a few days. He was shiovering so badly on a summers eve and not even asking for money just a cup and scared look on his face. maybe I was wrong but I knew he would get the cash somehow and maybe his last fix. At least he did not mug somone for it.I hoped he would get food as he was emaciated. Its sad because it could be anyone of us in the wrong circumstances.

I applaud you choice, Siobhan. When somebody is in a state such as you describe, it's not a circumstance in which to make moral judgements about whether they should spend money on food or getting a fix.

I also agree with you Siobhan, I know we are told not to give these poor people money, but you would have to be made of stone to constantly pass them by. A very close relative of mine works for THe Simon Community, and I can assure you homelessness is a much bigger problem than anyone wants to admit to, here in Dublin.

Well, on this we will have to agree to disagree... We have worked with the homless in places where it is a major problem for decades...and we know many who help in ways that maybe take more trouble than giving money.. One lady in the US I know gets up earlier than she needs to and makes a great pile of sandwiches and flasks of soup...others do similar things. It is not a moral judgement to advise not to give money. It is practical and deeply caring; we advise to give to those hardworking folk who are hard pressed to help these poor lost ones and who need every cent they can find. We lose som of "our" people in Canada every winter because we do not have the cash to provide blankets and the sheet plasic that would save their lives in bitter weather. We can make a little money go a very long way; the drug dealers make a lot of money kill. We care; the dealers do not. They need wholesome food and friends, not drugs that debilitate and kill. With better nurition they can be helped to get out of that deathly spiral. If folk just give them money, of course they will kill themselves all the faster. If that is a moral judgement, fine. We checked on this situation in Dublin very carefully when we first came to Ireland; there are many well-funded agencies there and each person who will accept help has access to food, a bed etc. Compared with the US and Canada, the situation in Dublin is under control and being eased. We spend our lives 24/7 and all we have and can raise working with the homeless..And we come across attitudes like this all too often.

SiobhanP,

I would do the same as you did, Siobhan. You are a kind, caring person.

Regards, Joan

Appalling... what you are doing is assisting suicide; that is a crime. Would you stick the needle in these folks? Our Abbess says this to you; you may as well get a gun and shoot these poor ones as give them money. IF you really cared, not just this ignorarnce, you woul go to Merchants Quay or the Salvation Army in dublin; ask them how you can help... give money to t hem to help them help the addicts..... have the humility to do that.. to give your time. Siobhan is not being kind; she is giving death.. It is not caring; it is simply aiding murder. Please, know we seek money to help.. no one is beyond help....Throwing moiney is the easy way to salve your conscience. Please, help us to help them LIVE. Yes, it is painful getting off drugs; but the alternative is death. You do not know what you are talking abiut; we do. So do Merchants Quay and the Salvation Army. You are making the problem worse.

A great need for those trying to get off drugs is for sugar. Buy them chocolate, candy of any kind, sweet drinks; their bodies need this to help them. Giving them the means to buy dope is like giving a diabetic sugar; or buying an alcoholic a drink... With drugs, it will set them right back at the beginning. Imagine it was one of your family; what woul you do for them? Go on killing them or get them the help and support they need? They need you to be strong with them.. to talk, to get them the expert help they need. Merchant's Quay in Dublin is that place. They have a needle exchange scheme; to avoid AIDS etc. counselling in depth, detox prorammes, and for those who are far enough on to benefit, a residential farm where they can learn new skills and self worth and self respect. Always they need money and always they need supporters. you CAN channel that caring and wanting to help into channels that will do so much good...
see
http://www.mqi.ie/Home.shtml

Please, help them to help those you see on the street... There are ways that are good and ways that are not good.. we spend a lot of time picking up the pieces - and the bodies - after someone meaning well has done what you do.. given them the means on bad day in weakness to dive again into death. Blessings this day

SiobhanP-
"He was shiovering so badly on a summers eve and not even asking for money just a cup and scared look on his face"
I saw a guy pulling the same scam recently.He then got up and walked over to his mate and had a laugh and a chat before resuming his piteous shaking/begging routine.Most of the "homeless" beggars in my city are nothing of the sort.There are resources available for the genuinely needy.
One difficulty is that there are more chancers visible than real homeless because some numpties give them money. Salving your conscience can do more harm than good.
Please don't feed the bears.
Incidentally the sale of the homeless magazine "The Big Issue" in Glasgow has now been mostly taken over by the Roms, who send their women out early every day to get the best pitches. They have homes and access to the full range of social services.This has not been a prob for real homeless as 95% of the previous sellers also had homes etc.
Some of my friends work with the homeless & disadvantaged - if you really want to help there are organisations who are looking for volunteers.

zippo, I don't think you have a basis for making a judgement on the situation in Dublin, on how gullible Siobhan might be (I suspect not very), or a particular person that you have not seen.

I think that it is better as a general rule to channel donations through organisations that you trust, but that does not mean that I will never give directly to somebody whose need is evident. I doubt if I am taken in very often and if I am once in a while, so what? The times when I get it right are worth more.

Just an incidental point: a few euros donated to a desperate junkie might lower the level of street crime.

Anchoress Said:

"We spend our lives 24/7 and all we have and can raise working with the homeless..And we come across attitudes like this all too often.

When we first came to Ireland; there are many well-funded agencies there and each person who will accept help has access to food, a bed etc. Compared with the US and Canada, the situation in Dublin is under control and being eased. We spend our lives 24/7 and all we have and can raise working with the homeless..And we come across attitudes like this all too often".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anchoress

You say you come across attitudes like these all too often... What do you mean by that, I hope you are not taking the high moral ground with me?

Whilst I dont wish to have a running arguement with you about this, I would appreciate if stop speaking to me as if i knew nothing about the subject,you have no right to tell people who are kind and give homeless people money, that they are doing wrong, as I said I have a close relative who works with THe Simon Community here In Dublin, and its complete rubbish,to say that every homeless person, who wants a bed has one!!!

I have gone on Soup runs with at night and spoken to many of these people, and I can assure, there are not enough beds here in Dublin, for homeless people, if you are one of the very very lucky ones, you may get a bed after a long wait on a list, and you must also fulfill conditions such as being on the Late Night bus that picks up a certain amount of homeless people, you do this for a month or more, and then, and only then, if a bed becomes available in a suitable hostel, you may get it. There is no consideration for teenagers, they are often put into hostels, with adults, who display very challenging behaviour.

I think you are being very judgemental telling Siobhan that

"what you are doing is assisting suicide;
"that is a crime. Would you stick the needle in these folks"
Siobhan is not being kind; she is giving death"



You go on to say:

"They need you to be strong with them.. to talk, to get them the expert help they need. Merchant's Quay in Dublin is that place. They have a needle exchange scheme; to avoid AIDS etc. counselling in depth, detox prorammes, and for those who are far enough on to benefit, a residential farm where they can learn new skills and self worth and self respect."


Unfortunately Anchoress, getting that kind of help here in Dublin, is like finding a needle in a haystack,it may all look very good on paper, but in reality there a not enough places on those programmes to cope with even a tiny fraction of the problems associated with homelessness. I have tried to stay polite in this conversation, if I have said anything that offends you, I apologise, but I really think its time you woke up and saw the situation as it really is here in Dublin.

anchoress - I think you've been very unfair to Siobhan. She is hardly "killing" someone for giving them a few euro. They may use the money on a bed for the night or a hot cup of coffee, or they might be using it for their next fix. Whatever they do with it is their choice. If they do not get the money through begging they will get it by another means. By Siobhan giving a few euro it might save someone from being mugged.

Zippo - the Big Issue in Dublin has also been largely taken over by Roma. In fact the Roma community have been in the news a lot here lately due to a large number of them being camped in a prominent area and allegedly harassing motorists for money. It turned out that a large majority of them are land owners and were here to milk the system. They've since been sent home.

I am quite upset and shocked at your take on me as "assisting suicide". I am not also bringing religion in to this as it did not fit our original conversation. I do understand what you say about the work being done and help out there but I will tell you there is a waiting list for treatment programmes and methadone programmes. And some just will not do it it. You cannot force them in as some will not stick with it. The Simon community are excellent but all orgs like them struggle with money, supplies and beds. I have known some who did work in the Simon community many years ago so I am aware of them and some of the others as I lved across the road from one for 4 years that housed Male Alcoholics as mentioned above.

I know I am good person with or without your cruel criticism. I stop when I see an accident (I was the only person who did last week when a cyclist got hit by a car), I ask people who look like they are upset or in trouble if they are ok when in town at my own risk and Yes there is human suffering EVERYWHERE. I was in Mumbai last December and saw things you would not believe. The level suffering some endure is severe from Lepers to DIRE poverty we could not imagine here in Europe.

I think its very great to think of these organisations helping people but very Naive to think it works for everyone. I hate to see people suffer but this is a part of life for us all. This guy was not faking I have seen it in areas I lived in before. I am a realistic NYer and now Dubliner for the past 12 years. I smell trouble and B.S. a mile away. Your attack on me is quite vicious and uncalled for with your description. I have nothing but admiration for the groups working on these issues but you making assumptions and taking your high moral stance shows me you are far more rigid than I thought.

I hope you keep working with all those great groups and make your mark but don't ever accuse me of being hypocritical as I feel you are more than I. Also to be honest we all have opinions and just because I do things different from you does not mean my intentions are. Irish maybe are different as well. In many other places that guy would have been kicked away, abused or harmed. We are a nation that gives more to people in the street in my opinion as it is a cultural thing from years ago. I never worked in a country where so many collections and fundraising has been done at work or through sponsored charity fundraising. Its a part of everyday life here.

We all have choices in life and every single one of us could potentially end up like that person so I did not judge him. I hope he is ok and got help but if not I hope is suffering less and still alive. I can't say anymore but I would love to on sub issues you mentioned that are influenced by some of your personal factors. Thanks to my pals who know me here for sticking up for me as you know what kind of a person I am after all these years and I hope your work is successful.

http://www.dubsimon.ie/

http://www.dubsimon.ie/homelessfacts...onhomeless.htm

"Despite the obstacles faced by MQI’s drugs outreach team, the author concludes that outreach is an effective strategy in dealing with ‘hard to reach’ populations. However, there is a clear need for relevant agencies to support new initiatives such as the establishment of a wet hostel, alternative treatment options, and increasing the number of places on current treatment programmes"

Quote from National Documentation crntre for Drug Cibtrol on the excellent MQI services but still shows there is need for spaces


Now I am off to Mexico city in Oct anyone else travelling somewhere? This is a travel website.

SiobhanP wrote: "Now I am off to Mexico city in Oct anyone else travelling somewhere? This is a travel website."

Hmm. You'll have to change boards for that!

I'll still be valid here, as my next trip will be to Berlin (unless I stick in a visit to Brittany first). I'll mind the shop for you.

Siobhan,

Please count me among your pals.

Jim

"Judge not lest you be judged."

Well I may go to London Next Fri so thats my european bit padraig! :-) Mexico and China and maybe India for work after.