We found it hard to easily find lodging when "winging it" it northern Italy
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We found it hard to easily find lodging when "winging it" it northern Italy
We just got back from a three week trip to northern Italy. The first two weeks were all booked in weekly rentals, but the last five nights we purposely left free so we could just do a road trip with our rental car, making up our minds as we went along about where to go. This strategy was good because it allowed us flexibility (being able to chose a location based on where the weather might be better) in coping with the terrible weather we had in Italy, but finding lodging was more difficult and more time consuming than we'd thought it would be.
We are very experienced European travelers who have been successful in many other western and central European countries taking a find-a-lodging-as-you-go-along approach, and, in fact, some of our best finds have been small places with no internet or guidebook presence--places we have found by just driving by.
After thinking about it, we decided that perhaps portions of Italy are more difficult to take this approach for several reasons. There are fifty gazillion signs on the roads, making it very hard to figure out as you whiz by (and there is always traffic on your tail, even in small towns) which signs are for accommodations. Many places have town centers with limited traffic zones, and you can't drive in the center (where lodging is most likely to be). Italy seems to require much more governmental-required tracking of tourist bookings than most other European countries we've visited, and we wondered if perhaps some people do not have signs out because it would be easier for authorities to find them for tax purposes.
After a few nights of hassles, we took to spending our late nights on the computer looking for places to pre-book in the locales we were headed for. So, a word of caution.......
We are very experienced European travelers who have been successful in many other western and central European countries taking a find-a-lodging-as-you-go-along approach, and, in fact, some of our best finds have been small places with no internet or guidebook presence--places we have found by just driving by.
After thinking about it, we decided that perhaps portions of Italy are more difficult to take this approach for several reasons. There are fifty gazillion signs on the roads, making it very hard to figure out as you whiz by (and there is always traffic on your tail, even in small towns) which signs are for accommodations. Many places have town centers with limited traffic zones, and you can't drive in the center (where lodging is most likely to be). Italy seems to require much more governmental-required tracking of tourist bookings than most other European countries we've visited, and we wondered if perhaps some people do not have signs out because it would be easier for authorities to find them for tax purposes.
After a few nights of hassles, we took to spending our late nights on the computer looking for places to pre-book in the locales we were headed for. So, a word of caution.......
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Do they still have desks at the rail station or a tourist office in town that help with accomodations? We took a 3 week trip with our children LONG years ago and didn't have any reservations ('way before the internet). There were a couple of dicey places, but it worked out.
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I used to wing it with lodging but haven't done so in a long time because I don't want to spend my vacation time looking for a place to stay. Popular towns book up quickly and the nice places that are not expensive are hard to find. With the internet even mom and pop lodgings/pensions have web sites or are linked to booking sites so easily accessible.
If you want to wing it in the future you should try to book as you go, about a week ahead, or go to less known towns where there isn't as much tourist traffic. You can always check the TIs who will book for you or give you addresses to try.
>
Aliens are required to register with the police in Italy; your hotel/lodging does that for you. I doubt the government tracks bookings.
If you want to wing it in the future you should try to book as you go, about a week ahead, or go to less known towns where there isn't as much tourist traffic. You can always check the TIs who will book for you or give you addresses to try.
>
Aliens are required to register with the police in Italy; your hotel/lodging does that for you. I doubt the government tracks bookings.
#5
>>>Italy seems to require much more governmental-required tracking of tourist bookings than most other European countries we've visited, and we wondered if perhaps some people do not have signs out because it would be easier for authorities to find them for tax purposes.
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nochblad--Actually, we had a long conversation at a hotel about just this topic and we also had another conversation with the owner of a B & B about the same issue.
The B & B owner told us that a B & B can have up to three rooms. After that the facility falls into a very different tax code and bracket. The hotel person told is that lodgings have to submit names for police tracking but that the tax authorities are also included in this distribution of data and will use this info to verify what the government believes is appropriate for the taxable basis. And, many small hotel owners believe that this info, that is supposedly just for police and security purposes, is expanded and used inappropriately by the government. So, I don't think this is a wildly inappropriate guess on our part....
I should also clarify what I intended to say initially. It is not that we could find absolutely nothing as far as a room but that "nice" places were hard to find by someone who was just driving through an area. To us, taking a road trip and winging it means deciding the day of or the night before where we want to go. After a couple days we did resort to pre-booking, but I really much prefer to actually see a place if possible. When we were in Iseo (on Lago Iseo) we were glad we could look beforehand rather than just booking a room sight unseen. The in-town hotel that was recommended by several guidebooks was awful in reality, and we were glad we were able to walk down the street and have a chance to find a different hotel.
The B & B owner told us that a B & B can have up to three rooms. After that the facility falls into a very different tax code and bracket. The hotel person told is that lodgings have to submit names for police tracking but that the tax authorities are also included in this distribution of data and will use this info to verify what the government believes is appropriate for the taxable basis. And, many small hotel owners believe that this info, that is supposedly just for police and security purposes, is expanded and used inappropriately by the government. So, I don't think this is a wildly inappropriate guess on our part....
I should also clarify what I intended to say initially. It is not that we could find absolutely nothing as far as a room but that "nice" places were hard to find by someone who was just driving through an area. To us, taking a road trip and winging it means deciding the day of or the night before where we want to go. After a couple days we did resort to pre-booking, but I really much prefer to actually see a place if possible. When we were in Iseo (on Lago Iseo) we were glad we could look beforehand rather than just booking a room sight unseen. The in-town hotel that was recommended by several guidebooks was awful in reality, and we were glad we were able to walk down the street and have a chance to find a different hotel.
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kybourbon--
Apparently we were posting at the same time. In Italy the hotels and B & Bs are still required to get a copy of your passport and promptly submit this information to the local police.
Apparently we were posting at the same time. In Italy the hotels and B & Bs are still required to get a copy of your passport and promptly submit this information to the local police.
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Winging it? The 70's are long gone.
In some ways, Italy can feel like a 3rd World country. But once the internet hit, many Italian businesses were first in line and there was a mad rush to put a bathroom in every hotel room.
These days, there aren't many people who haven't heard of the joy of visiting Italy. It just doesn't make sense not to plan your trip with care, unless you really want to waste time once you're there.
In some ways, Italy can feel like a 3rd World country. But once the internet hit, many Italian businesses were first in line and there was a mad rush to put a bathroom in every hotel room.
These days, there aren't many people who haven't heard of the joy of visiting Italy. It just doesn't make sense not to plan your trip with care, unless you really want to waste time once you're there.
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"And, many small hotel owners believe that this info, that is supposedly just for police and security purposes, is expanded and used inappropriately by the government"
That probably means that the tax authorities can check how many nights the B&B was booked, and can see if the tax return is filled out correctly.
That probably means that the tax authorities can check how many nights the B&B was booked, and can see if the tax return is filled out correctly.
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Some of your comments are prejudicial and stereotypical of Italian behaviour. Whilst it is true that Italian regulations (fiscal and otherwise) are extremely onerous my experience of the north of Italy (over 30 years) is that most establishments are pretty scrupulous when it comes to following the requirements.
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What is wrong if info given to the police is used by other governmental organizations i.e. the tax authorities? Are 3 room B&Bs exempt from tax?
Do not presume because Italy - and especially north Italy - has to behave according to foreign stereotype.
Before casting a stone look at the situation in the US - a news search on airbnb, craigslist etc is more than sufficient.
Do not presume because Italy - and especially north Italy - has to behave according to foreign stereotype.
Before casting a stone look at the situation in the US - a news search on airbnb, craigslist etc is more than sufficient.
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Thank you, julies, for reporting your experience. And for reporting your conversations with your hosts.
nochblad, the avoidance of taxes by some (quite a few) Italians is considered to be part cause of their economic problems. Now maybe everybody you know or have encountered in the north of Italy is not guilty of tax evasion. But evidently hotelliers there are not so sure.
nochblad, the avoidance of taxes by some (quite a few) Italians is considered to be part cause of their economic problems. Now maybe everybody you know or have encountered in the north of Italy is not guilty of tax evasion. But evidently hotelliers there are not so sure.
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Do not confuse tax avoidance with tax evasion.
Tax evasion whilst widespread in Italy is frequent in many other countries including America airbnb, craigslist, ebay etc besides.
Do not tar everyone with the same brush.
Tax evasion whilst widespread in Italy is frequent in many other countries including America airbnb, craigslist, ebay etc besides.
Do not tar everyone with the same brush.
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Julies
apologies if I have been a little stern but much as I love Italy it can be very frustrating. Many enterprises struggle to meet the expectations of their visitors and the tax authorities. It is not easy. The relationship is often confrontational to say the least.
Much as I despair about things in Italy and especially the town of Como where nothing much has changed in over 30 years there are few places where the quality of life is higher if you value it in terms of art, food, weather, culture etc.
De Gaulle reputedly said - how can you govern a country which produces 275 (or thereabouts) cheeses? The Region of Lombardy alone probably produces well over this amount!
I am actually writing a book of my experiences of over 30 years of Italian life. Fodors is quite a source!
apologies if I have been a little stern but much as I love Italy it can be very frustrating. Many enterprises struggle to meet the expectations of their visitors and the tax authorities. It is not easy. The relationship is often confrontational to say the least.
Much as I despair about things in Italy and especially the town of Como where nothing much has changed in over 30 years there are few places where the quality of life is higher if you value it in terms of art, food, weather, culture etc.
De Gaulle reputedly said - how can you govern a country which produces 275 (or thereabouts) cheeses? The Region of Lombardy alone probably produces well over this amount!
I am actually writing a book of my experiences of over 30 years of Italian life. Fodors is quite a source!
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Well - yes. With many thousands of visitors the pleasant rooms at bargain rates are going to be taken early. When you try to search out day by day you are competing with the people who booked 3 months before and had the most options.
This may not be bad in areas with limited tourism - but in high season and busy areas - I'm not at ll surprised.
We always book everything as soon as we have our dates since I refuse to waste vacation time looking for places on the spot - that are unlikely to meet our needs anyway.
This may not be bad in areas with limited tourism - but in high season and busy areas - I'm not at ll surprised.
We always book everything as soon as we have our dates since I refuse to waste vacation time looking for places on the spot - that are unlikely to meet our needs anyway.
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With the weather conditions the way they were this May in Northern Italy, I was just a little regretful we were tied to Lake Como and Lake Maggiore with reservations and pre-stay deposits. Without them we could have spent those 8 days where the sun was shining.
While we were walking around in a downpour I did wonder if a vacationing Italian family would go to the lakes with 5 days of probable rain in the forecast or change their vacation plans?? Deborah
While we were walking around in a downpour I did wonder if a vacationing Italian family would go to the lakes with 5 days of probable rain in the forecast or change their vacation plans?? Deborah
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"While we were walking around in a downpour I did wonder if a vacationing Italian family would go to the lakes with 5 days of probable rain in the forecast or change their vacation plans?"
That really is a tough dilemma for a tourist. Less tough for someone who lives in the country. I've experienced days of rain on Lake Como, and there isn't much to do when a lengthy downpour occurs. One day I went shopping in Milan, and the other day I spent on the computer working on photos.
The intense rain this year is not the norm, but given the weather these days, it's hard to tell what normal is anymore.
Early on in my travel adventures, I spent a week in Tuscany where it rained every day. I had a fabulous car, so I didn't have any problem going places and doing things, but by the 7th day, I was ready for a desert.
Still, I wouldn't give up on the planning, because there is absolutely no way to predict the weather. When all is said and done with travel, luck plays a role, and you simply must roll the dice if you hope to have an unforgettable experience.
That really is a tough dilemma for a tourist. Less tough for someone who lives in the country. I've experienced days of rain on Lake Como, and there isn't much to do when a lengthy downpour occurs. One day I went shopping in Milan, and the other day I spent on the computer working on photos.
The intense rain this year is not the norm, but given the weather these days, it's hard to tell what normal is anymore.
Early on in my travel adventures, I spent a week in Tuscany where it rained every day. I had a fabulous car, so I didn't have any problem going places and doing things, but by the 7th day, I was ready for a desert.
Still, I wouldn't give up on the planning, because there is absolutely no way to predict the weather. When all is said and done with travel, luck plays a role, and you simply must roll the dice if you hope to have an unforgettable experience.