mikelg

Sadly, no transatlantic flights land in Bilbao yet...but we have excellent connections with almost anywhere in Europe, with several flights daily to most major airports in Europe: London, Paris, Frankfurt, Lisbon, Geneva, Amsterdam, Rome, Munich, so arriving here requires normally a two leg journey.

papier1

Maribel and Mielg,
Thank you once again for your detailed recommendations -- and your genuine enthusiasm for the Basque country!
All the description of wine and cheese are making me hungry --- which brings to mind: is there any way possible to bring cheese back to US? Probably not unless we had a cooler. I am not a foodie like others, except for cheese.
I'm thinking Option 3 is the way we'll go (2 nights SJdL, 3 nights SS, 2 nights Bilbao), particularly if want to do a wine tour on our last day in/from Bilbao.

Question: I wish we could do a wine tour on our way to Madrid, and not use that day only for transit from Bilbao to Madrid. Does anyone have suggestions for how we might accomplish that?

ricarm51,
I did see Rick Steves Basque Country tour itinerary, and in some ways we are paralleling it. Indeed I was tempted to sign up for his tour, although it would be much more expensive all said and done. I think it's interesting that in his Spain book he seems to focus more on the Camino aspects of the Basque country, and dismisses BC as "can be appreciated in a day." I suspect he's getting feedback from his BC tours that people want more BC, not less.

Southam and kja, I appreciate your thumbs up about Bilbao.

Maribel

Yes, you can bring the cheese back vacuum packed. They should be able to do this for you at any shop.

I'll let mikelg answer your question about a wine tour from Bilbao on your way to Madrid, which would make more sense, so that you can enjoy a full day in Bilbao.

Maribel

papier1,
If you do decide to visit the Rioja wineries on your drive down from Bilbao back to Madrid, it would be better, as in less time consuming to do your touring in Haro, just a bit over an hour's drive. It's the closest wine town to Bilbao.

There you have 7 wineries open to visits, many of them centenary ones, in the lower town, in the Barrio de la Estación, with ample and easy parking. Some, like venerable López de Heredia/Viña Tondonia require advance reservations for the complete 2-hour tour (although you may be able to do a simple, non-commented tasting in its Zaha Hadid designed glass "decanter" wine shop), while others, such as a favorite, Gómez Cruzado, offer tastings in their shops without an obligatory guided tour. You can taste without the tour at Muga in its Torre Muga, at the shop of C.V.N.E. at Roda, or in the stylish shop at Rioja Alta. But GC is our favorite, and I believe, a favorite of mikelg.
But they all have different operating hours, so it's best to check their web pages.

But after tasting, you will still have an almost 4-hour drive to Madrid, so unless you have a designated driver (and you may plan to have one), I hesitate to recommend this.

kja

No matter the length of your drive, if you are planning to do any wine tasting with a car, you will need to plan on a designated driver or master the art of sip-and-spit -- and even then, be aware that some wine will be entering your system.

Maribel

I agree with kja's comments. That's why I hesitated to recommend a stop for wine touring in Rioja on the drive from Bilbao to Madrid, but I also assumed that perhaps you had already wisely planned to have a designated driver, and there is certainly the ability to sip and spit at these wineries. And you may have already practiced that art if you've done wine touring elsewhere.

mikelg

For a wine tour on your way to Madrid, you have two stops, Haro is the firest one (quite a few wineries in the Barrio de la Estación), my favorite one is Gómez Cruzado (English hour by appointment, but normally around 10am), but depending on the time of arrival you may do wine tastings only, visiting a bit of the winery. I do recommend to do the full tour, in any case. The other one is Laguardia, I recommend the tour of Casa Primicia, but on the way there I´d stop at Ostatu, Alútiz or Samaniego (if a full visit, please try to arrange it before getting there). Tritium in Cenicero is also a fantastic winery, as is Bohedal, run by women, near Cuzcurrita. All these may imply a half hour deviation from your way to Madrid, but really worth it.

papier1

Thank you all for the suggestions regarding wine tours. On second thought it doesn't seem like we would be able to 'relax and enjoy' a wine tour if we are driving, and then on to Madrid.
Perhaps a half-day tour the day before we leave would be better, either by taxi or escorted tour.
If we do drive back to Madrid (vs fly), we want a stress-free drive.... and perhaps stop only Burgos on the way (or Laguardia if we didn't see it the day before).

How is the drive to Madrid (airport area) from Bilbao? I'm assuming it is a 4-lane freeway most of the way, and minimum 5-hr drive.
I'm thinking another alternative to driving is to enjoy a last leisurely morning in Bilbao and take an afternoon flight to Madrid (but not the last flight of the day).

Maribel, thanks for the tip on vacuum-packed cheese!

Maribel

papier1,
I think an escorted tour to Rioja the day before you leave would be a better option than just hiring a taxi. An escorted tour would allow you to relax and visit 3 different wineries with a knowledgable Bilbao-based guide who knows the area very well and has strong connections with his/her favorite wineries. A taxi driver may not.

If you do go on your own or by taxi, do know that Cuzcurrita to the west and Cenicero to the east would be quite time-consuming detours, so I would stick with Haro's wineries in the Barrio de la Estación, and the pretty medieval walled town of Laguardia, stopping in at Ostatu in Samaniego (left hand side) on the drive to Laguardia, where you can taste without taking a tour. They also produce olive oil.

The drive from Bilbao to Madrid on the 4-lane, A1 motorway is easy and depending on whether you make a stop or two, perhaps a 5-hour drive.
We've driven this route often, sometimes stopping in Burgos, but usually for an overnight, as there's so much to see besides the cathedral (Museum of the Evolution of Man, the Convento de las Huelgas, etc) and the stunning Gothic cathedral tour via excellent audio guide takes time, so I never recommend Burgos just for a quick stop over.

Or we stop in Lerma further south, just for a coffee break at the elegant ducal palace Parador on the pretty square and to take a short walk around the village (it also produces a nice red wine from the Ribera de Arlanza D.O.)

We've also taken the train, the 9:20 am Alvia that takes 5 hours, 8 minutes.

And we've also flown on Iberia, 1 hour, 10 min.
If you want to fly, that is also an easy option, as you won't have to deal with the rental car return in Madrid.

We drop off our rental cars at Barajas airport when coming in from the north and then taxi into the city, simply because we've learned over the years that it is less of a hassle.

Hope this helps!

papier1

Thank you Maribel for the tips regarding Bilbao to Madrid.
I don't know yet if we'll fly or drive back to Madrid. If we fly, it might be so we can see Madrid for 1/2 day (although thinking about that right now is kind of exhausting).
If an 2-hour stop in Burgos would be easy and worthwhile, we may drive.

mikelg

The obvious stop is Burgos, it has probably the best gothic cathedral in Spain, and all the other places mentioned by Maribel

Maribel

papier1,
If you do decide to drive (and I assume you've already visited Madrid and feel you don't need more time there), a stop in Burgos would be worthwhile if you're willing to spend more than two hours.
I agree with mikelg that Burgos boasts a simply magnificent (and beautifully restored) Gothic cathedral. The tour of it by audio guide takes a considerable amount of time. It's free with one's admission ticket and very well done. It took me two full hours to get through it..that's why I mentioned that Burgos isn't a quick "in and out" to do this very pretty city justice.

kja

It took me two hours for the (very well done) audio guide, too.
And as Maribel already noted, there's a LOT more to Burgos than that magnificent cathedral.

papier1

Thanks again to Maribe, MikelG and kja for the information about Burgos. Sounds like 2 hour pit stop may not be the best idea. I don't think we'd want to be longer and then still drive to Madrid, deal with the car etc.

mikelg

A standard drive to Madrid from Bilbao takes maximum 4 hours (the airport is in the north, closer to Bilbao), if you drive at maximum allowed speed of 120km/h. I´d stop in Burgos, even if not visiting the cathedral, it´s right next to the highway and worth a visit.

kja

Honestly, you can't see everything and you need to make some choices -- and every choice means that you get to do some things and not others. Your trip, your call!

papier1

Thanks for the advice. We are still looking at driving vs flying to Madrid from Basque Country.
Decisions, decisions.... but most have been made and only a final few days of the trip plan remain.
Thank you all.