samoca

I am planning my first trip to Spain. (Speak enough Spanish to get by pretty well in Mexico incidentally. Of course, castellano is quite different.) I have read dozens of other people's itineraries where they are very tightly scheduled and planned down to what to do at 1:30 p.m. on day 4--that's not me--much more of a slow traveler. Have not booked airfare yet so dates are flexible after October 9 but thinking two weeks--Madrid/Andalucia. I am retired 60-something female going solo (have traveled solo before in Mexico, Italy, Paris). Not sure how many times I'll go back to Spain but don't want to overload, so reluctantly have eliminated San Sebastian/Bilbao for another trip.

First week already booked in Barcelona (first week in October) with a friend. (Will be flying over on Vueling from Venice after a week there.) Then friend will go home and I will go progressively more south for the next two weeks (by train or bus--don't want to fly or drive). Prefer cooler weather in daytime. Will it still be hot in Andalucia?

Right now thinking AVE from Barcelona to Madrid. Four days just in Madrid (Prado/Thyssen-Bornemisza, what else?) Is day trip to Toledo enough or should I stay overnight? Segovia as day trip from Madrid? So that's one week.

Andalucia--How many days in each place (Granada/Seville mainly) is the main question natch. Thinking AVE Madrid to Sevilla--third week in October. Will it be reasonably cool in daytime by then? How many days? Someone suggested going by train from Madrid to Granada BEFORE going to Seville (slow train or bus?) and staying 4 nights (3 days) in Granada. Granada sounds beautiful but do I need 3 or 4 days there? I have a feeling I will prefer Seville (since I love colonial Mexico). True? I will book the Alhambra in advance of course. Should I stay as near a possible to Alhambra? Favorite B& B Granada? Best area to stay in Seville? Favorite B&B/hotel? I will definitely see flamenco since I have loved flamenco since my teenage years. Is Cordoba a must? Can I do Cordoba as a day trip from Seville? What am I leaving out that I will regret, oh wise Fodorites?

AVE Seville to Madrid. Apparently Barajas is rather far from the center. For an 11 a.m. flight should I stay in a hotel near the airport?

Thanks in advance to everybody!

bardo1

It sounds like you already have a good handle on all this. A few affirmations

Week #2 - A week in Madrid with day trips to Toledo and Segovia is fine. No comments here.

Week #3 - Cordoba is an easy day trip from Seville (45 minutes one-way on high speed train) and you can spend either 1/2 day or full day there and have a great time. Two full days on the ground in Granada is good only if you won't/can't get a rental car. I would consider renting a car after your 4 nights in Seville and stay driving to Granada (there are some very cool places en route from Seville to Granada either as quick pit-stops (such as Arcos de la Frontera) or even an en route sleepover (such as Ronda). So - if your have a car, then 3-4nigths in Granada and if not, then 2 nights.

Subjective, of course, but my vote for best area(s):

...in Seville are Centro Histórico\Barrio Santa Cruz (they abut one another) and for hotel- www.hotelalminar.com

...and in Granada - best neighborhood is the ancient Albaicin. It is hilly, so if your are mobility impaired, then not a good choice. Hotel choice (in the Albacin but an easy walk to the Alhambra) is The Casa Morisca (built in the 1400's) http://www.hotelcasamorisca.com/

There is no good reason to stay right next to the Alhambra. Except for the Alhambra itself the north side opf the river is the place to be. You can get to the Alhambra from most neighborhoods in a 10 minute bus ride (or even walking - see Casa Morsica above).

Re. Madrid airport - not sure what you mean by "far". It's a 20-30 minute taxi ride from Plaza Mayor... you need to decide for yourself how much time you need for breakfast/checking out and what wake-up time is acceptable...

bardo1

On second thought, if you have car, then you might just want to drop it off at Madrid airport and have catch an airport hotel shuttle to nearby hotel.

If you WON'T have a car, then you could go either way (near airport or in city center).

Also, forgot to mention Las Alpujarras (Pampaneira, Bubion, and Capileira - all 3 villages are close to one another and easily done in one trip) as a good day trip from Granada (if you choose to have car).

CathyM

I also like to travel a little slow - wondering around nooks and crannies in small and large cities without really a mandatory sightseeing list.

Toledo and Segovia are good as daytrips from Madrid. But if you want a different feel (and have time in your budget) it may be nice to spend a couple of nights. It's different after the day-trippers have left and these are smaller cities than the others on your list.

Cordoba is an easy daytrip from Sevilla or better yet a stop en route from Madrid to Sevilla on the AVE. You can store your luggage at the bus station lockers just across from the train station. But Cordoba, even more than Segovia and Toledo IMHO, is a great place to spend a couple of nights if you have the time in your budget. The highlights can be seen in a few hours but there is so much in Cordoba outside of the Mezquita and Juderia areas.

I'd budget at least 4 nights for Sevilla - it's a large city but has a small feel with distinct neighborhoods. If you spend more time in Sevilla you could do several daytrips - Jerez, Osuna, Carmona, Cadiz, Sanlucar, Arcos, etc..... You may consider renting an apartment in Sevilla. The rates are surprisingly affordable - even less in many cases than a 3* hotel. If you don't have a car you may also want to spend a couple of nights in Ronda en route to Granada. It's a larger town but it will give you the feel of the white villages. Personally, I'd head down to Cadiz for 2-3 nights. Without a car it makes a great base to visit Sanlucar, Vejer, Arcos, Medina Sidonia, etc.... for daytrips. Sevilla and Cadiz are in my top 2 of 3 cities in Spain so I could be slightly biased

I spent 3 nights in Granada a couple of years ago during a festival and it was plenty of time even for me. I probably could have done with 2 if it weren't for the festivities.

Another idea, if you decide not to rent a car, would be after Granada to head towards Cordoba and then back to Madrid to fly home. You could take a bus from Granada to the little town of Priego de Cordoba and spend a couple of days. It's small but it's a great town to sink into for a couple of days. Then take the bus to Cordoba and train to Madrid. Priego is about half way between Granada and Cordoba surrounded by olive orchards and rolling mountains - beautiful.

I wouldn't recommend staying by the airport for your final night in Madrid. You could get a hotel near the train station and walk over to the airport express bus and easily get back for your 11 a.m. flight. I did this just last month taking the 7:30 a.m. bus from Atocha and was at the airport by 8:15.

nytraveler

Don't worry about what type of Spanish you speak. Andalusia isn't Castille - and you will be understood anywhere. Esp in the larger towns many people speak some English anyway.

Strongly reco not staying at the airport - waste of a night when it's so close to the city.

Egbert

Once again Cathy does all of my work for me. Bardo and nytraveler also give spot on advice. There is no need to rent a car in Andalucia unless you have a lot of spare time on your hands. Never stay at a hotel near the airport anywhere, especially in one of Europe's great cities where you will miss out on an extra and unforgettable evening of eating and drinking well and strolling around enjoying yourself thoroughly. I made that mistake once in Naples.

samoca

Wow--thanks everyone for all the great ideas. The only problem with posting here is that now you have an even greater abundance of choices. I have enough time to read up in Lonely Planet Spain and Rick Steves so I can decide about Seville and Granada. One surprise to me is that Seville sounds much bigger than I thought. I have a feeling I will want to be in a smaller place (i.e. Granada) for a while since I will have been only in Barcelona and Madrid (with Toledo and Segovia day trips probably) and will need to relax. Plus I want to time my visit to Granada for when my friend who lives outside Barcelona can fly down for the weekend. He is a Catalan and has seen more of the US than Spain--has never been south of Madrid!

How far in advance do you need to book tickets for the Alhambra?

In October, can I book a hotel just a few days in advance in Madrid, Toledo, Sevilla, Granada, etc.? Right now, have only booked Barcelona for the first week of October.

Gracias otra vez, amigos!

CathyM

As I noted before Sevilla is large but it doesn't feel large, at least to me. The old center is compact and pedestrianized. And there are very distinct neighborhoods and areas all with their own "feel" - Triana, Macarena, Arenal, Centro, Santa Cruz, San Lorenzo, etc.... Barcelona and Madrid feel like large cities to me while Sevilla does not. Sevilla has much better daytrip opportunities using public transportation than Granada IMHO.

I think you may also be surprised at how large Granada is - it is by no means a small town. It is also very full of traffic in the center and can be quite hectic and busy. Although I've been to Granada 3 times it doesn't feel as warm and inviting to me as Sevilla. It could just be me.

As far as booking in advance it all depends. If you have your heart set on a small boutique type hotel with a limited number of rooms then they will likely be sold out in advance. But if you have a few choices in mind then you shouldn't have a problem booking a few days in advance.

danon

Old town Seville is rather small and walkable . ..even "venturing" to Triana or San Lorenzo is not a big deal.
Given a choice, I would rather spend time in Seville than Granada.
If you love art museums , Madrid is a place to be. Often overlooked Sorolla museum is a gem.

kimhe

Sevilla is the queen of the cities in the South, and I second everything Cathy says. Wonderful local feel neigbourhoods such as Triana, Arenal, San Lorenzo, Alameda, Macarena etc.

I would stay out of the beautiful but very touristy Santa Cruz district. I prefer Arenal or San Lorenzo/Alameda areas, both very central and ten minutes walking to the Cathedral, Santa Cruz and the major attractions. But plenty of great hotels in the Santa Cruz district as well, and for many it's a major point staying exactly in here.

I have been very happy staying in Vime Corregidor close to the Alameda de Hercules: http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/vime-corregidor.en.html

Here are plenty of hotels in Sevilla with guest reviews etc. http://www.booking.com/city/es/sevilla.en.html

75-78F in Sevilla in the middle of october according to past sixteen years statistics. Perfect time of year to visit.

Flamenco art is very important for Sevilla and the rest of Andalucía. You could get a great taste of the art at intimate Casa de la Memória in Calle Cuna, 6 in the center of town. Popular with tourists, but only great artists perform here. No food, no drinks, just flamenco:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...Andalucia.html
http://casadelamemoria.es/

kimhe

... hmmm, I meant not "stay out of" the Santa Cruz district of course, but "I would not live there".

And now I saw you're into flamenco since the teenages.

You can be up for some fabulous flamenco experiences in all the cities you're visiting, including Barcelona! And even though flamenco "viene del Sur", Madrid is arguably the flamenco capital of the world, everyone has to conquer Madrid to get to the top.

I've already mentioned Casa de la Memória in Sevilla. The sevillana Pastora Galván vas voted best female flamenco dancer 2010 by Spanish critics, and she has danced here almost once a week for the past few years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2SBUcrJgeQ

In Barcelona (the hometown of flamenco giants such as Carmen Amaya and Miguel Poveda) there are only top of the shelf artists performing in Tablao Cordobés and Tablao de Carmen (Amaya). Here's the trailer to the documentary Bajarí about flamenco in Barcelona. Prmieres in Spanish cinemas in June:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BibV3tYo0U http://www.deflamenco.com/revista/no...va-vila-1.html

In Madrid, I can highly recommend Casa Patas just off vibrant Plaza Santa Ana, in my opinion the best tablao in Spain the past few years.
Up and coming Belén López at Casa Patas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hbhkIWSX-Q
The greatest and most cutting edge male flamenco dancer, Israel Galván at Casa Patas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9Wav9v7Jc
http://www.casapatas.com/

Other great tablaos in Madrid include Cardamomo, Las Carboneras, Corral de la Morería and the old "cathedral of flamenco" Villa Rosa on Plaza Santa Ana, recently reopened as a serious flamenco venue.

In Granada, you should go to the Thursday night performance at Peña la Platería, one of the oldets existing flamenco clubs in Spain. In the Albaycín district close to the center and Plaza Nueva. Sometimes they also have performances on Saturday nights. The performances starts at 10.30pm and the entrance is only some 10-12€ with one drink included. http://www.laplateria.org.es/

This clip gives you an idea of the place and the atmosphere. Here, the extremely popular singer Diana Navarro from Málaga performs. She is not a traditional flamenco singer, but she has a beautiful voice and are fully capable of creating magic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgPrfjinEgQ

I would nevertheless first and foremost suggest you go to a flamenco performance at a theater. I almost guarantee that one of the greatest are giving a concert that coincides with your trip. On these occasions there is predominantly a local and knowledgeable crowd, and a flamenco theater performance could easily be the highlight of your trip.

The concert program is updated here: http://www.deflamenco.com/seccion-conciertos.html

If Rocío Molina performs during your stay, I wouldn't hesitate a second to plan accordingly. Have seen her ten times the past five years, and she's out of this world, you never know where she goes next. Voted best flamenco dancer several years and Premio Nacional de Danza in 2010. New York Times desctribed her as "one of the finest soloists in the world today" a couple of years ago. She's making history and is still only 28. Her schedule is updated here: http://www.rociomolina.net/
Molina in action:
1) Andalusian TV, the night before flamenco was put on the UNESCO world heritage list: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRLSLYvbn1c
2) I never forget this night in July 2011 at Gran Teatro in Córdoba: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvvgMjZ7AtE
3) From "Oro viejo": http://vimeo.com/7862350
4) Recent experimentation: http://vimeo.com/58101066

samoca

Kimhe: I've actually had the good fortune to see Rocio Molina at UCLA about 8 years ago (?) Very new style to me since I do not follow flamenco; the only flamenco I'd seen was a touring group called "Flamenco Puro" which was probably in the '80s--very traditional but wonderful tablao (just learned that word in reading up for this trip). Saw them twice. But I haven't seen enough flamenco here in Los Angeles--think it's general popularity must have waned over the years, no?

What kind of setting will feel most comfortable for me as a woman going alone to a flamenco show? Do women go alone to these things? In Barcelona I will be with a friend and she will be going home after that week, so maybe we will try to go. What is it likely to cost for a single ticket to a tablao in various cities? Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge about flamenco with the forum!

kimhe

Perhaps not as big on the west coast (lived in Berkeley for half a year in 2001, and the San Francisco flamenco scene was pretty low), but New York flamenco festival and London flamenco festival have been major successes the past ten years. The greatest flamenco artists tour major stages in - apart from Spain - first and foremost France, the Netherlands, Latin American countries and Japan all the time. Some 800 flamenco academies only in Japan!

London flamenco festival: http://www.sadlerswells.com/show/Fla...al-London-2013

New York flamenco festival: http://www.flamencofestival.org/eng/...2/new-york-97/

And as blues, flamenco tend to thrive when the going gets tough, and given the current situation in Spain it should at least be very interesting to watch the development in the coming years.

Some of the major flamenco stars on the current international scene:
- Old-timer Paco de Lucía, one of the world's finest guitarists regardless of genre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oyhlad64-s

- Estrella Morente, daughter of legendary cantaor Enrique Morente: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np5kLHhX7BQ

- Sara Baras, she who really got me stuck back in 2004 at a performence in Oslo Concert Hall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwushBt_Hpw

-Miguel Poveda, going to see him again in a couple of weeks in his native Barcelona. Here in a copla from Pedro Almodóvar's Los Abrazos Rotos/Broken embraces: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3CJiJX-qLE

- Wonderful Eva Yerbabuena, perhaps the greatest of them all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IW3mZNprq0

- Rocío Molina "Leading the Audience Into Flamenco’s Heart" in New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/26/ar...llow.html?_r=0

In general, I think at least half the audience have been female at all flamenco performances I have attended, also at the tablaos. No need to think about it being uncomfortable, mostly very serious and knowledgeable audiences when great artists perform, both in tablaos and in theaters. And women do go alone.

kimhe

In Madrid you have of course the magnificent Reina Sofía contemporary art museum. The second floor with Picasso, Dalí, lots of other painitings, posters, films, photos etc., dealing with a couple of the greatest civilizational breakdowns of the 20th century, The Spanish Civil War and WWII, completely blew my mind off a couple of years ago. Close to Prado and Thyssen-Bornemisza: http://www.museoreinasofia.es/index_en.html

Café Central, just off Plaza Santa Ana, is a fabulous jazz venue with live performances from the best artists every night at 10. Entrance 15€. Good food also. http://www.cafecentralmadrid.com/

Watch the sunset over the Guadarrama mountains from the terrace at El Ventorrillo restaurant in the Vistillas park.
Perhaps the best pollo al ajillo in town.
http://11870.com/pro/restaurante-ventorrillo/media

Have lunch or some tapas at Casa Granada, on the 6th floor of an apartment building just off local feel Plaza Tirso de Molina. Hard to find and a great terrace. http://www.tripfilms.com/Travel_Vide...ada-Video.html

Have breakfast or lunch at Café del Círculo de Bellas Artes in down town Calle Alcalá, 42. One of the city's most emblematic cafés. Grab a window table and watch Madrid life on bustling Calle Alcalá. Take the lift up to the roof topp terrace (the azotea) for the most spectacular views of the city. http://www.esmadrid.com/en/cargarApl...ntificador=179
http://www.frommers.com/destinations/madrid/D51874.html

Take a stroll in the beautiful Retiro Park. http://www.aviewoncities.com/madrid/parquedelretiro.htm

I never leave Madrid without having had the squid in its own ink and the famous Bacalao at Revuelta, just off majestic Plaza Mayor: http://11870.com/pro/revuelta
http://www.tripadvisor.es/Restaurant...ta-Madrid.html
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHu8zGsFuy8

Take a taxi to the airport, some 25 mins and 25-30€ from downtown Madrid.

kimhe

... and regarding cost of flamenco tickets.

- Most tablaos (flamenco restaurants) in Madrid, Barcelona and Sevilla will be about 40€ with one drink included.

- Peña La Platería in Granada is some 12€ with drink incl.
Casa de la Memória in Sevilla is 16€. No food, no drinks, just flamenco.

- Theater performances tend to be some 10-25€. Outdoor festivals (mostly in summertime) are some 5-10€.

samoca

Thanks again Kimhe and everyone! Any ideas for best area to stay in Madrid? Not too noisy. Also any hotel/B&B/apt recommendations in Madrid. Also for Toledo?

kimhe

I use to stay in the central Plaza Mayor/Plaza Santa Ana area, close to the heart of the city Puerta del Sol, easy walking distance to the main museums, the Royal palace, the Retiro park etc, and the best tablaos, Café Central etc. on your doorstep.

About the area.
http://www.gomadrid.com/sights/plaza-mayor.html
http://www.gomadrid.com/sights/plaza-santa-ana.html

I use to stay in either Hostal Persal (hotel standard) in small Plaza del Ángel just off Plaza Santa Ana. No traffic but ask for an interior room if noise is an issue. http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/persalmadrid.en.html

or

Hotel Plaza Mayor, just off Plaza Mayor. Little traffic and very tranquile: http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/plaza-mayor.en.html

You could also take a look at Hostal Prado just off Plaza Santa Ana. Almost all rooms fronting a bright interior patio:
http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/hostal-prado.en.html

samoca

I booked an apt in Madrid a few weeks ago that I forgot to ask about--it's on a street called Calle San Cosme y San Damian in Embajadores, right next to the Convento San Isabel. On Google maps it looks quiet (cars only on one side). It's 5 minutes walk from the Reina Sofia. Since I am mainly interested in the museums and don't want to be in a noisy area, and the price is right, I decided to reserve (through AirBnB--it's got 7 very positive reviews.) But since I will be on my own (and am a middle-aged female), I thought I'd ask you experts if it's a safe neighborhood. Maybe it's too quiet?? Anyway, thanks again. It's about 10 minutes' walk to Atocha--don't know if that's good or bad.

kimhe

It's in Lavapiés, traditionally the poorest district in central Madrid, but now a vibrant and bohemian area popular with artists and immigrants. Your street is in a quiet part of Lavapies and 200 meters from the fabulous Reina Sofia museum. Several great art galleries on your doorstep.
http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/madri...ghborhood.html
http://madrid-guide.homesfortravelle...-lavapies.html
http://www.friendlyrentals.com/en/ap...zone-33-92.htm

Be sure to have the Madrid speciality Bocadillo de Calamares in El Brillante next door to Reina Sofia. http://gospain.about.com/od/madrid/ss/lavapies_8.htm

kimhe

... and you are very close to Madrid institution Café Barbieri in Calle Ave María, 45: https://www.google.no/search?q=caf%C...w=1600&bih=754