Wait A Minute - That's My Photo!
Jul 18th, 2005, 11:58 PM
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Wait A Minute - That's My Photo!
Came across something by chance the other day & was wondering if this had happened to anyone else.
Back in April my wife & I paid a short weekend trip to Bellagio on Lake Como, staying at the Hotel Metropole, which we thoroughly enjoyed. I had taken some digital pictures with the idea that I would post them on one of the "photo sharing" sites. My plan was that I would post a link here on Fodors & then sit back to enjoy the adoration of a grateful public. You know the type of thing - people would post here saying how wonderful the pictures were & then I would modestly shrug my shoulders in a sort of a "shucks, it was nothing" type of way.
Anyway (as my wife could have foretold) my plans came to nothing, mainly because I am - now and always have been - crap at taking pictures. Out of approximately 1642 pictures taken, only around 5 or so were remotely any good & as these all related to the Hotel Metropole I posted them alongside my report on Trip Advisor.
So - the other day, just for old times sake, I went into the Metropole's website only to find, much to my surprise, that they had used one of my pictures on their site! It shows a room interior & it's definitely my picture - our lugggage is in clear view. Here's a link (my picture is down at the bottom right of the page).
http://www.albergometropole.it/accommodation.htm
I guess that when you post a picture on the web it becomes open to common ownership but is the Metropole being (just a little bit) sneaky?
Maybe I should try to score a discounted room on the strength of this
Jim
Back in April my wife & I paid a short weekend trip to Bellagio on Lake Como, staying at the Hotel Metropole, which we thoroughly enjoyed. I had taken some digital pictures with the idea that I would post them on one of the "photo sharing" sites. My plan was that I would post a link here on Fodors & then sit back to enjoy the adoration of a grateful public. You know the type of thing - people would post here saying how wonderful the pictures were & then I would modestly shrug my shoulders in a sort of a "shucks, it was nothing" type of way.
Anyway (as my wife could have foretold) my plans came to nothing, mainly because I am - now and always have been - crap at taking pictures. Out of approximately 1642 pictures taken, only around 5 or so were remotely any good & as these all related to the Hotel Metropole I posted them alongside my report on Trip Advisor.
So - the other day, just for old times sake, I went into the Metropole's website only to find, much to my surprise, that they had used one of my pictures on their site! It shows a room interior & it's definitely my picture - our lugggage is in clear view. Here's a link (my picture is down at the bottom right of the page).
http://www.albergometropole.it/accommodation.htm
I guess that when you post a picture on the web it becomes open to common ownership but is the Metropole being (just a little bit) sneaky?
Maybe I should try to score a discounted room on the strength of this
Jim
Jul 19th, 2005, 12:16 AM
#2
What a great picture! No wonder they stole it. I'd certainly complain to the hotel and ask for some serious compensation e.g. free stays.
I would also write to Trip Advisor and advise them of the "theft." I'm sure they'll certainly want to know what can happen to the photos they post.
Question: When private photos are posted in the Internet, are they free for anyone to download and use in any way?
I would also write to Trip Advisor and advise them of the "theft." I'm sure they'll certainly want to know what can happen to the photos they post.
Question: When private photos are posted in the Internet, are they free for anyone to download and use in any way?
Jul 19th, 2005, 12:48 AM
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hmm, this is a hazy area of law, I think. Certainly in the UK, photographers retain their copyright even for commissioned work. However, perhaps because you've posted the pictures without asserting your copyright alongside, you'd find it hard to prove?
Any copyright lawyers want to step in here?
Any copyright lawyers want to step in here?
Jul 19th, 2005, 02:14 AM
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This is something that has happened to me several times, having photos "appropriated" from my galleries on pbase. All of my photos are copyrighted, and when I find one being used without permission, I email the offender, and have always received accreditation.
However, I have have never found one of my photos being used by such a large company. If you can prove that the photo is yours (digital watermark?), think "deep pockets," and I'm sure you are in a good position to negotiate a fair and equitable settlement.
One thing I have learned in posting photos on the 'net, is to size them no larger than 640 x 427 pixels. That's large enough to still look good on a computer monitor, but small enough to be fairly useless for print media.
Your first step should be to contact the offender, and suggest further leagl proceedings if a settlement cannot be reached. Perhaps a letter from your attorney?
One quick aside, I know most photographers dream of selling photos, the ego thing of recognition. I have learned the hard way that that is a whole new can of worms. Can you say "tax consequences?" Instead, I always allow use of my photos for simple accreditation.
However, I have have never found one of my photos being used by such a large company. If you can prove that the photo is yours (digital watermark?), think "deep pockets," and I'm sure you are in a good position to negotiate a fair and equitable settlement.
One thing I have learned in posting photos on the 'net, is to size them no larger than 640 x 427 pixels. That's large enough to still look good on a computer monitor, but small enough to be fairly useless for print media.
Your first step should be to contact the offender, and suggest further leagl proceedings if a settlement cannot be reached. Perhaps a letter from your attorney?
One quick aside, I know most photographers dream of selling photos, the ego thing of recognition. I have learned the hard way that that is a whole new can of worms. Can you say "tax consequences?" Instead, I always allow use of my photos for simple accreditation.
Jul 19th, 2005, 02:27 AM
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One of my concerns about photo-sharing sites is precisely whether, somewhere in the small print, you might be surrendering your copyright in posting. I'm sure most of the big names are entirely honourable and respectable, but it would be wise to double-check.
Also, there are some technical fixes that can make it difficult to download pictures from websites (not impossible - whatever you do, someone could always take a screen-dump and crop out the image from that - but at least harder to get hold of a good-quality image). It might be worth checking whether they have any of those in place.
And in this particular case, it might be more productive to play the 'bad publicity' card with the hotel before the legal one.
Also, there are some technical fixes that can make it difficult to download pictures from websites (not impossible - whatever you do, someone could always take a screen-dump and crop out the image from that - but at least harder to get hold of a good-quality image). It might be worth checking whether they have any of those in place.
And in this particular case, it might be more productive to play the 'bad publicity' card with the hotel before the legal one.
Jul 19th, 2005, 03:04 AM
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Hi JJ,
>...I guess that when you post a picture on the web it becomes open to common ownership ...<
No, it doesn't.
The hotel has appropriated your intellectual property without permission.
Good thing that you left your luggage in the pic.
Your are entitled, at the very least, to recognition.
>...I guess that when you post a picture on the web it becomes open to common ownership ...<
No, it doesn't.
The hotel has appropriated your intellectual property without permission.
Good thing that you left your luggage in the pic.
Your are entitled, at the very least, to recognition.
Jul 19th, 2005, 03:19 AM
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JJBhoy, first, what a wonderful picture! Feel free to shrug modestly or wriggle with pride. Makes me wonder who took all the other photos on the Metropole site...
It's possible (but not likely) that the hotel itself doesn't know your photo was purloined...it could have been their web designer who decided he/she needed another photo and snatched it from the TA.
Definitely contact the hotel manager ASAP. Perhaps you should send them a registered letter requesting (demanding, but politely) compensation. At the very least, they should comp you their best room for a few nights at some future date in *addition* to either removing the photo or giving you full credit. Notify TripAdvisor as well.
And please, keep us updated. Let us how this gets resolved.
It's possible (but not likely) that the hotel itself doesn't know your photo was purloined...it could have been their web designer who decided he/she needed another photo and snatched it from the TA.
Definitely contact the hotel manager ASAP. Perhaps you should send them a registered letter requesting (demanding, but politely) compensation. At the very least, they should comp you their best room for a few nights at some future date in *addition* to either removing the photo or giving you full credit. Notify TripAdvisor as well.
And please, keep us updated. Let us how this gets resolved.
Jul 19th, 2005, 03:57 AM
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Sorry Jim, if your picture is the stand alone image on the bottom right of that page, with the luggage tucked under the little desk, I'm sorry to say honestly that the image looks pretty drab and dull to me, like most of their room images. I suspect many of their room photos were produced by customers who stayed there. Amateur photographers typically don't know how to manipulate F-stops and shutter speeds to achieve dynamic color resolution and your composition, like several others on that page, is crying out for a simple fill light (which could have been achieved by using a white bed sheet).
Now that your ego is in proper perspective, you may want to review Trip Advisor's Terms of Use. I found this: <i>"By posting or distributing information or material through such forums, you expressly abandon any proprietary rights you may have in such information or material, and such information or material may be freely used, copied and distributed, in any medium and in any form, by others without your permission."</i>
I may be wrong but it seems to me you surrendered all your rights once you uploaded your image to this site. The kind comments from others will be about all you can expect from this surprise.
Now that your ego is in proper perspective, you may want to review Trip Advisor's Terms of Use. I found this: <i>"By posting or distributing information or material through such forums, you expressly abandon any proprietary rights you may have in such information or material, and such information or material may be freely used, copied and distributed, in any medium and in any form, by others without your permission."</i>
I may be wrong but it seems to me you surrendered all your rights once you uploaded your image to this site. The kind comments from others will be about all you can expect from this surprise.
Jul 19th, 2005, 04:02 AM
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I'm not sure about Pbase, but many photo sharing sites publish pics under the 'Creative Commons' license. There are a number of CC license types but basically it means that your creative work, put on the net, can be used by others as long as they don't make money out of it, and/or that you are acknowledged. Check www.creativecommons. It's always a good idea to put this notice together with any type of creative material you display on the web.
Jul 19th, 2005, 04:05 AM
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Sorry that would be www.creativecommons.org.
Jul 19th, 2005, 04:06 AM
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Nice pic. I can't tell you how many interesting places I've found things of mine; mostly writings. I presume that things I post are going to be used and I think PatrickLondon is probably correct about some fine print in the terms and conditions (that most of us never read) in various websites. As for kjosker's comment about tax consequences, that is a two-edged sword because there can also be benefits for those who do some amount of this work, keep good records and file the proper forms. It's probably not worth the hassle for the odd photo or feature, but if it begins to get into a few thousand dollars and you're filing U.S. income tax forms, then it's time for you to learn about Schedule C.
Jul 19th, 2005, 04:17 AM
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I'm afraid I agree with NYFoodsnob on this one - I also think the picture is a little out of focus.
But what a bizarre thing for a hotel to do. They end up with a real hodge podge of shots, whereas they could have got at least some consistency by getting one photographer to take the lot. I really should talk to them about their marketing!
But what a bizarre thing for a hotel to do. They end up with a real hodge podge of shots, whereas they could have got at least some consistency by getting one photographer to take the lot. I really should talk to them about their marketing!
Jul 19th, 2005, 04:29 AM
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no offense - but the picture is a generic hotel room shot - yes, it your's but it's not a stunning afternoon dolce vita shot of Lake Como.
Send the hotel an email mentioning how flattered you are that they're using your photograph on their website and see what developes. The hotel may take your photograph off their website - and is that what you want - or would like to be able to say to yourself - "hey that's my photo". Maybe being that your were guests they consider you acquaintences and it was okay to use your photograph? Before asking for "serious compensation" - and if it really matters to you - email the hotel and see what they have to say.
Nice balanced composition though. It takes so many rolls of film to get those juicy perfect shots in travel magazines. I've known photographers who have sat in one place for 7 hours, shooting roll after roll, just to get that one perfect shot.
Send the hotel an email mentioning how flattered you are that they're using your photograph on their website and see what developes. The hotel may take your photograph off their website - and is that what you want - or would like to be able to say to yourself - "hey that's my photo". Maybe being that your were guests they consider you acquaintences and it was okay to use your photograph? Before asking for "serious compensation" - and if it really matters to you - email the hotel and see what they have to say.
Nice balanced composition though. It takes so many rolls of film to get those juicy perfect shots in travel magazines. I've known photographers who have sat in one place for 7 hours, shooting roll after roll, just to get that one perfect shot.
Jul 19th, 2005, 04:51 AM
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If NYCsnob's quote is accurate..it wold seem that are not entitled to any compensation at all...because you gave away your rights. If I were the hotel, I might take the photo down and retake my own or offer you some some discount on a future room.
This problem reappears when people enter travel photo contests without reading the rules. Some of the contests require you to allow them to reprint or use your photo in any media with no time limit. It's a cheap way for a publisher to acquire free photos.
Carta,
I took a film class with a pro that would sit for hours...waiting for the right light...and then take only one photo. He would be out all day and take only 1 or 2 shots ...no bracketing. I was impressed.
This problem reappears when people enter travel photo contests without reading the rules. Some of the contests require you to allow them to reprint or use your photo in any media with no time limit. It's a cheap way for a publisher to acquire free photos.
Carta,
I took a film class with a pro that would sit for hours...waiting for the right light...and then take only one photo. He would be out all day and take only 1 or 2 shots ...no bracketing. I was impressed.
Jul 19th, 2005, 05:20 AM
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Technically speaking, at least in the US, material posted to a website becomes copyrighted as soon as it's posted. Unnecessary to proclaim the copyright, except as a reminder. Of course, in that neither you nor the hotel are in the US, then I'm not sure. Whose courts, etc.
Perhaps a letter (lightly)? You charge me for your services.... so..
Maybe you'll get a discount out of it for the next trip. Probably not.
I participate in an amateur travel photog site. This comes up quite a bit with peoples shots taken by actual magazines and newspapers in various parts of the world. Swiped from right above the "copyrighted by" text. Not much you can really do about it in the end but I do hope they at least have the class to give you a free night for taking without asking if you call them on it.
Jul 19th, 2005, 05:26 AM
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Clifton, I'm not an attorney..but your logic would have prevailed....EXCEPT that they agreed to abandon their rights..as stated by the quote from NYCsnob.
"By posting or distributing information or material through such forums, you expressly abandon any proprietary rights you may have in such information or material, and such information or material may be freely used, copied and distributed, in any medium and in any form, by others without your permission."
"By posting or distributing information or material through such forums, you expressly abandon any proprietary rights you may have in such information or material, and such information or material may be freely used, copied and distributed, in any medium and in any form, by others without your permission."
