Visiting Multiple Countries in a Single Trip
 

I'm just wondering how many of you have done an "all europe trip" or have spent a summer traveling through multiple countries in Europe. I have spent two weeks in Italy and two weeks in Ireland but have not traveled through multiple countries in one trip. My husband teaches and I will not be working so we have the summer free and would love to make the most of this unqiue opportunity. The places we would love to visit are Greece (mostly Athens and Santorini), Italy (Amalfi Coast), France (Paris and countryside), London and Scotland (Edinburg and Isle of Skye). We are also open to suggestions for other places.

I would love to hear your opinions on taking on an ambitious itinerary like this vs. sticking to one or two places per trip. Since we have the summer free we are trying to decide if we would like to travel our normal two week trip and visit one country or travel two months and visit multiple countries. I really want to enjoy our time and not feel burnt out at the end.

How would you go about planning a trip like this? Would you travel from the north down to the south or vice versa? So far I'm thinking 7 days in Greece, 4-5 days in Positano/Amalfi Coast, 10 days in France, 3 days in London and 7 days in Scotland.

I've taken trips such as London/Paris/Berlin/Brussels in 2 weeks and enjoyed them, and I've combined Iceland/Scotland/London, or Greece/Italy/Spain, but I've been very selective about how much I try to see each location. I also don't think of such trips as an "all-Europe" trip -- when obviously I've left out Switzerland, Austria, Netherlands, etc. You might find changing your mindset helps you in planning. Move it away from the "all-Europe" mentality, and look at the most enjoyable way to combine four locations in Europe you want to experience.

There is a huge difference in weather (and bugs) at various times in the summer when it comes to Greece and Scotland. Also, the last part of August is a guarantee of maximum tourist mobs on hte Amalfi coast. So your tolerance for heat, crowds and understanding midges and how best to avoid them, might end up deciding the order of how you proceed.

It's pretty hard to comment on your itinerary since "10 days in France" is so vague, but I would probably find the Amalfi Coast redundant or a let down after the glories of Greece and would pick another part of Italy to experience, unless you are very keen on exploring the historic relationship between Greece and area surrounding Napoili. (If it's all about blue sea, sky and rocks for you, I think Greece has the edge on the Amalfi.)

For the Isle of Skye, I really enjoyed my 7-day stay in the Trotternish and castle Duntulm. I rented a coastguard cottage. I had a car rental and would recommend one wherever you stay on the Isle. I also went in September, when the weather was dry and warm and midges were at a minimum.

Remember too that next summer's Olympic games are in London.

Rent apartments as often as you can so you have a washing machine and therefore can pack light to take advantage of cheap flights.

Thank You Zeppole for the helpful advice. I guess that's why I put "all europe" in quotations for lack of a better term... really what I mean is "all europe that i want to see" :)

I'm finding it hard to narrow down what I want to see and concentrate on one area of Europe. Greece is a must for us even if we can only visit one place so I am starting our planning there. Italy would be a logical next step but we've already been to Rome, Florence and Venice which is why I was thinking about Southern Italy. I can see how it may be a letdown after Greece, but if we were to do Greece last I wonder if that would help?

If you mean June - August, then definitely do Greece first. Saving it for last would put you there in August, the most crowded and expensive month of the year. June, on the other hand, has pleasant weather, fewer tourists, and lower prices.

Heading north as the summer progresses would go against the flow, with European families heading for the Mediterranean as schools break up for summer later than in North America. Saving Scotland for August seems a good idea to me, as that is "the season", with the Edinburgh Festival and other exciting events taking place.
:-)

Great point Heimdall...It would be late May, June and early July. I think I've decided to cut out the UK and just do Greece, Rome and Tuscany, Paris and Provence, Loire Valley area. I am torn between wanting to save the relaxing in Greece for last vs working my way south to north to possibly avoid the crowds. It might actually be nice to start off the trip in Greece with a relaxing beach vacation as we will just be coming off of work.

In addition to not thinking "all Europe," it's also helpful to identify what specific aspects of a country or city or area you want to experience rather than thinking of "I'd like to see Greece." I don't mean to sound directive, but I've found for myself that multi-country trips work best when I've isolated what I want to see in that country -- i.e., "I'm going to Germany to see the Reichstag Dome, what's left of the Berlin Wall and the Pergamon museum in Berlin, and the rest is gravy, and then I'm going to the Isle of Skye to relax and hike, and maybe I'll see a castle or somesuch if it's not too much trouble."

If you save Greece for last, going in early July, your biggest enemy for enjoying Athens will be planning carefully to avoid getting wiped out by heat. I'd plan on spending 3 nights there in a hotel with a swimming pool. Nights in Athens are exquisite with their cafe life, the Acropolis museum is a fabulous indoor refuge, and if you break up seeing the ancient monuments over two mornings, and head indoors or to the pool in the afternoon, Athens is charming. After that, if you do careful research, you can find an islands itinerary that skirts the worst of the cruise ship mobs.

If you start with Paris, Loire/Provence, Rome, Tuscany and Greece, you can probably be in Provence during some of its showiest flower season, and catch a flight from Nice to Rome. You will do best renting a car to see to tour Tuscany, but when you look for flights to Athens from there, don't neglect to check out the possibilities of flying from Bologna or Pisa.

If you decide to start in Greece so you can relax, I suggest biting the bullet on a very long travel day and heading directly to an island as your first stop. Then, when you are rested, go to Athens -- and from there, I would head to Tuscany before going to Rome. From Rome, take the flight to Nice, and end up eventually in Paris so you fly home from there.

Personally -- and this is just me -- I think I'd rather start in Paris, and gradually go further and further back in time and end in Greece.

nspotz,

In 26 years of marriage, we have always taken 3 week to one month trips, visiting multiple places, whether international or domestic. Our philosophy is that as long as we are paying all that money to get wherever, we might as well stay as long as we can. Two months would be heaven!

I think that travelers get burnt out when they move around too much, too quickly. I'm not sure how your two weeks trips were spent, so forgive me if this is what you already do, but rent an apt and stay at least a week in each area, so that you can see the sites, but also relax, soak up the local town, experience the unexpected, and not stress if/when someone gets sick, you get lost, it rains, etc, knowing that you still have plenty of time in this area to see it all.

I like the idea of starting in Greece to decompress, then going against the flow by working your way north. It *might* work out weather wise too, to avoid some heat. On our last trip to Paris and Italy, we "followed the sun," going north to south as we went in the Fall and wanted as much warm weather as possible, lol.

fly open jaw, into London and out of Greece and take trains in between and a ferry to Greece to see the lay of the land as well as huge cities. Anyway great sites for rail info and passes that could be of value if going overland - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.bahn.de - the German Railways web site that has schedules for trains all over Europe and is the easiest such site I have seen to use.

We did 8 weeks one trip celebrating our 40th anniversary, but it was all drving and all contigious. The sequence was Madrid
Andalusia, Cote d' Azur, Veneto, Salkammergut, Vienna, Prague, Romantic road, Bavaria and Munich. The Peugot buy-back program made the car most affordable. We loved it---what we did was combine what would have been 4 seperate trips.

Just want to give my opinion that if you choose to go, the AC and Positano will definitely not be a let down after Greece. Having recently been to Santorini, Mykonos and Athens, I thought they were lovely, but the AC is one of the most beautiful places in the world. It is a wonderful place to relax and enjoy the views and the water. Plus it has so many places like Capri and Vesuvious to visit. For me, even though it is beautiful, Greece was slightly more of a let down (just a tiny bit) after the AC.

All just one person's likes, though.

<i>It would be late May, June and early July. I think I've decided to cut out the UK and just do Greece, Rome and Tuscany, Paris and Provence, Loire Valley area.</i>

That would work out better than Jun-Aug if you decide to leave Greece for last. It will be hot in Greece by July, but the really big crowds don't arrive until August, the traditional holiday month for some European countries. Factors to consider for the Greek Islands: in late May-early June you will have pleasant beach weather, but the water is still chilly. In July winds are sometimes strong, especially in the Cyclades. That keeps the temperatures down, but occasionally affects ferry movements.

Personally I still think I would prefer starting in Greece, then working my way north as the weather gets hotter.
:-)

another factor to consider in Greece IMO is the financial chaos that could yet come to the country and protests and strikes that have been all too common.

<i>"another factor to consider in ____________ [fill in the blank] IMO is the financial chaos that could yet come to the country and protests and strikes that have been all too common."</i>

It's not just Greece, you know! ;-)

Sassafrass, It's good to hear another opinion on Positano. I am still considering it. Right now we are definately going to Athens, Santorini and possibly one other island. And we definately want to visit Paris. The question is do we travel through Italy up to France or just go to Greece and France?

Will it feel redundant to visit the Tuscan countryside and Provence in one trip? I don't want to feel jaded once we reach France.

Will we be bored by beaches if we go from Santorini to the Amalfi Coast before heading up to France?

I am trying to decide if we want to cut out Italy all together. We have the time to visit parts in all three countries, and possibly the budget to, but I want to plan a greatr trip and not just try and see everything all at once.

Heimdall, I think I am with you on that one. Starting in the south and moving north is beginning to seem like the best idea.

And amamax2, it is refreshing to hear your perspective. We've been married 3 years and i only hope that after 26 years we are still traveling!

You don't go to Santorini for it's beaches but rather for the views. There are better beaches on other islands.
I never tire of water views though.

Sheeyoot, you don't really go to the Amalfi Coast for its beaches either, you go because the water is excellent, the views are great, and you can eat exceedingly well because you're in Italy, etc.

Tuscany and Provence are different. Go. See. Enjoy.

Don't fall into the trap of over-romanticizing the train. PalenQ is a train romantic but the fact is that planes are often nearly the same price (or less) and a whole lot faster with more discount options. Greece to France by train is a long slog.

yes, "water views" not beaches! I am not going to Santorini expecting a Carribean vacation :) What I meant was they are a similar type of location as far as staying by the water, riding on a sailboat...

I agree about starting in Greece first. Our only trip there was in May and was in the 80s (℉) and we were very comfortable and it was not crowded.

Will someone confirm that the Provençal lavender fields bloom in mid- to late June?

I agree that Tuscany and Provence are not too much of the same thing. I prefer the scenery in Tuscany. On the other hand, you could be there for the lavendar in bloom in Provence.

You will most likely have to fly into and out of Greece. Since it's a bit of an outlier, you can arrange the rest of the trip in almost any order. However, look into open jaws tickets, into one city, out of another. So you don't have to spend time and money backtracking.

If you have both the time and the money I would do this trip in a shot. Unfortunately for me - except for 5 weeks with my BF one summer I was in college - I have had either the time for the trip but not enough money or the money - but not the time.

In this economy I would make sure that jobs are totally stable and your financial affairs are in order before spending this much money on a vacation - but if you have it - go for it.

As fo ryour itinerary - if doing a multi-country tour - we always try to mix Latin and Germanic cultures - so you don;t have too much of the same thing. All of the countries you are interested in a re fine - but IMHO would be too much the same - and I would leaven with Germany, Austria or Switzerland.

Also wold do open jaw tickets - into one city and out of the last to avoid circling back. Also - if you are doing all Schengen countires be sure to follow the 90 day limit.

It's not just Greece, you know!>

Yes I know but no other country has had the spate of protests, national strikes, etc that Greece already has experienced and no other nation is seriously considering ditching the euro as Greece may well have to do - causing at least temporary currency chaos perhaps during the changeover.

But point granted Italy and others could also have many more strikes - the thing that upsets the apple carts of most tourists - say a national transit strike or ATM fillers on strike, etc.

The lavender fields in Provence do not always bloom mid to late June. It depends on the weather, but July is more guaranteed and their normal bloom time. Mid June is really too early, I believe, although end of June probably would work. Some areas do the harvest in August, typically. Early July is pretty much a safe bet on that front.

nspotz,

the differences between France and Italy are quite significant. If you like Germanic food, go for it, but few people feel they have too much of the same thing going anywhere in Italy alone. You only feel that way if you constantly aim for one tourist spot after another, where you are mainly surrounded by other tourists having a canned experience of the culture. Since you have some time, use it to occasionally step off the beaten track instead of slavishly following a guidebook (or following in the footsteps of message board posters). Just leave time and space to sample the unknown. You won't get lost and you'll be amazed at how lovely and liberating it is to do that.


PalenQ,

First of all, Greece is not considering ditching the euro. It was suggested by others that Greece be shown the door. Greece is starving itself to live up to its end of a deal that was struck weeks ago. However, were it to become unsustainable for Greece to continue to starve and it defaulted, the entire euro would go for everybody.

As for protests, the New York Times recently ran a story about how the protests have become fairly routine, even if they maintain their size. (After a while, the police and protesters actually get to know each other; plus, police whose paychecks are getting cut often don't feel like beating up demonstrators).

All that said, if the present scheme to put most of the euro-zone under a blanket of austerity holds, traveling to any euro-zone country (which includes Greece, Italy and France) risks finding normal life in these places disrupted by strikes and protests -- that is the point of them.

PS, PalenQ:

I should amend my remarks to acknowledge that Greece did propose a referendum on accepting imposed austerity (which most people believe would have resoundingly passed in favor of remaining in the euro), and that many commentators, inside and out of Greece, talk about Greece leaving the union. But this talk goes on about Italy as well, and even some scenarios having Germany leaving. Truth is, at this point, if anybody goes, so goes Europe.

The only reason Greece has seen longer disruption is that the crisis hit there first. But Spain is now seeing many strikes, Italy has strikes scheduled for next week, Belgium has gone through a spate of strikes. London just saw a very large strike and its not even in the euro, just facing an austerity regime. So as the austerity deepens as it has in Greece, expect the strikes to go on.

Greeks however it seem are more reluctant to swallow the cuts than other countries and thus perhaps more protests and strikes than others. But I agree with what zeppole says.

The Greeks it seem have been more profligate than other countries and have much harder task cutting back and not having things get worse as a result.

But yes strikes need not be dibilitating to the tourist - just keep in touch with proposed strikes and carry a wad of euros with you in case ATMs go on strike, banks, etc.

Thanks Christina for the lavender info.

Ok, so the consensus seems to be that we should, if we want to work it into our schedule, stay in both Tuscany and Provence. Again, I have been to Italy, so I don't necessarily feel like I need to see the cities I have already visited, althought I would love to. Any thoughts on staying in Positano? Yes, we could technically travel for as long as we want to but with trying to keep costs somewhat down I don't know if we would do Amalfi Coast and go up north to Tuscany also. I think we will need to do one or the other. We have never visited Southern Italy so this is seeming to appeal to me more.

Also, any thoughts on Bordeaux?

Two months or not, too much moving about and you'll burn out and have a much less enjoyable trip.

I don't think the order and especially what is or isn't included is that important if you allow yourself to be based in various places for a while.

Try these general rules-of-thumb:

<b>1 week if it's major city</b>, even if you've been before (Rome, London, Paris). You can always do day trips form these home bases too, if that appeals.

<b>3 night minimum anywhere else</b>, whether a city (Naples) or a town (Amalfi).

..and then look at your final itinerary - if you end up with no more than 10-12 hotel/apt. stays for your entire 2 month trip, then you'll be just fine.

nspotz,

We crossed posts.

Positano is a great base with easy access to Capri, Amalfi, Ravello and Sorrento (by bus or ferries). Five nights there would give you time to see a good part of the Amalfi Coast. I would then move to Naples for 3 nights (with a day-trip to Pompeii?) before heading north to Tuscany.

My thoughts on Positano are that, as pretty as the position and scenery is, it has become a caricature of an Italian vacation experience, overloaded with foreign tourists. It is also terribly inconvenient to going anyplace other than more of the same when it comes to beautiful places now commercialized for meg-mass tourism. Some people don't mind any of that, and some people positively prefer the company of other travelers who speak their language and with whom they can share travel tales and photo slides, and they like the strong tourist infrastructure. I prefer something away from the tourist crowds, and in Italy, that doesn't mean you sacrifice beauty, and the food is usually better elsewhere.

Here's a trip report (not mine) from someone who once briefly got of the beaten track in southern coastal Italy and found it "stunning" and said he "loved it."

http://www.slowtrav.com/tr/triprepor...id=104&index=2