Visiting Cornwall without a car?
 

We have about 4 days to ourselves after a business trip to London and think we'd love to see Cornwall, esp. Exeter and Penzance/St. Ives, but there's a lot in between we can't choose among. However, for reasons I don't want to go into, we will not be renting/driving a car.

So what would you recommend? Specifically: Should we stick to one place as base, or perhaps two (Exeter 1-2 nights, travel to Penzance or nearby for 2 nights) and then back to London to go home? Recommendations for lodging? -- obviously need to be handy to transport, however we do it. Are bus coach tours readily available and reasonably good way to do this - if you don't have the money for a private driver, which we don't?

Favorite/don't miss sights? We are ambulatory but hardly hikers - like scenic natural beauty, art, history, and science, so it's sort of all good.

Minor correction, Exeter is in Devon. You could see both Exeter and St Ives in 4 days, both are easily reached by rail from London. Exeter is 3 hours from London and St. Ives is another 3 hours from Exeter on the same line.

I prefer St Ives but difficult to compare, Exeter is a large city with impressive cathedral, university and more. St. Ives remains a small coastal town with lovely beaches, the Tate St. Ives, Barbara Hepworth's studio, galleries, easy to get to Penzance by rail or bus.

If I had to split 4 days, I'd do three in Cornwall and one in Exeter but depends entirely on your interests and to some extent the weather.

Thanks. I actually knew that Exeter is in Devon, just didn't get the word into the title. Have a cathedral hobby, hence Exeter; but otherwise have figured out that St. Ives (irrespective of the guy with 7 wives, etc.) was going to offer a lot to us/me.

So, for the 3 days in Cornwall, what would you recommend as base location? Penzance or ....? Have a favorite inn or B&B?

Other perspectives? Re: Devon - know that Exmoor National Park is a designated ecological area of low/no light pollution at night but haven't quite figured out how one observes the absence of something. Anyone care to enlighten me (oops)?

>>designated ecological area of low/no light pollution at night but haven't quite figured out how one observes the absence of something.<<

What you are observing are the stars/moon etc w/ no light pollution. Not that common on such a densely populated Island.

http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.u...o-do/?a=164534

I was imprecise. I was trying to get at the "how" in terms of where one could go -- get to and then view -- to escape artificial light at night, and still find one's way back to home and bed. Or, most precisely, where in the "park" does one stay to best enjoy the natural night sky?

And thank you for the link. It is helpful.

" where one could go -- get to and then view -- to escape artificial light at night, and still find one's way back to home and bed. "

The short answer I think is you can't, really, without a car.

Policies to minimise light pollution don't need journeys to remote places to appreciate: stargazing these days is possible from back gardens in modest-sized towns if its planners have adopted a programme of redesigned street lighting.

But it's very hard to imagine how it would work in conventional hotels - and I've not heard of country house hotels putting stargazing ahead of what you might call excessive security lighting: I doubt their public liability insurance would allow it.

So most visitors would drive out to the unlit core zone.

But without a car, you'd need to rent a house with a big rear garden, near a bus stop, in an area with an anti-light pollution policy. Lots of such houses exist (indeed they're becoming the norm in villages and microtowns in National Parks and Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty): but I suspect few are rented out.

Remember too that cloud cover isn't just unpredictable weeks in advance: in Britain it's unpredictable hours in advance. It's very common to be told in a local news programme that the night sky is going to be exceptionally worthwhile, go out and find it's covered in cloud, then meet someone the following morning who saw it all an hour later.

So it's highly unlikely anyone's organising night sky tours for the carless.

The honest truth is that light pollution reduction policies are designed for local residents, for wildlife and for virtue signalling: no-one really cares about tourists when the programmes are being developed. .

You could substitute Truro (which has a cathedral) for Exeter, and use that as a base.

Many local councils, such as here in Norwich, now have a policy of switching off street lights in the small hours to save money. Many villages don't have lights anyway. I don't know what the situation is in Cornwall or Exeter, but you may find going out at midnight will be pitch dark.

>>You could substitute Truro (which has a cathedral) for Exeter<<

I was thinking of suggesting the same thing -- though there is quite a difference between the maybe 120 yo Truro cathedral and the 600+ yo one in Exeter.

Only 600 years old? Forget modern architecture in Exeter and come to Norfolk instead - our cathedral has been there for 900 years.

We spent five days in Penzance without a car. We went by bus one day to Marazion to see St. Michael's Mount and another day to St. Ives. Walked to Newlyn, explored PZ, and had a really good time. I especially liked St.MM, but do get info on the tide tables if you go.

Thanks all. Carolyn, I'm not that good a swimmer so will definitely find out about tides. Any recommendations re: where to stay in Penzance?

We stayed here in St. Ives. From the website the hotel looks recently updated--that was needed but at the time we stayed there we loved the location, the bar and the great view of St. Ives harbor. Easy walk from train station.

http://pednolva.co.uk/stay

hi cmc,

Greetings from sunny Cornwall. Of Penzance and St Ives, PZ will definitely be the easier of the two places to get to on public transport as the train goes straight there, though the branch line from St Erth to St Ives makes that a good choice too , and the Pendolva is a very nice hotel [the public rooms have definitely been updated as we were there at christmas] with a lovely restaurant and super view, just a stone's throw from the station as Cathinjotown says. Buses are available from both towns to tour the area, or you might do what we saw quite a lot of people doing last week which was to get a bus somewhere, walk to somewhere else and then get a taxi back.

obviously I'm biased and with only 4 nights would spend my whole time in Cornwall, rather than stop off in Exeter, but if you can't resist a night there, I suggest getting the train all the way to Cornwall [one of the iconic train journeys of the world, especially the part between Exeter and Plymouth and the part that goes across the Tamar and slightly beyond] and then on the day you leave cornwall, get an early train back to Exeter, and spend the rest of the day [and the night] there. For seeing Exeter itself that should be quite enough.

I don't know what your price-point in Exeter is, but for about £100 a night you should be able to get a decent room in the Mercure [quite a long way from the station and slightly away from the very centre] or if you fancy something more boutique, the St Olave's [excellent breakfasts with eggs benedict etc.; they used to have a very good restaurant but seem to have stopped that now] and closest to the station [just a very short taxi ride] the Queen's Court which also has a very good restaurant and is a 10 mins walk from the Cathedral and the historic centre [of which there is sadly very little left].

I can't offer any recommendations for where to stay in PZ - there are quite a lot of B&Bs and Guest houses in and around Alexandra Road and there are some pretty good restaurants so I would definitely want to eat out.

Hope that helps - do come back with any queries you might have.

cfc, we stayed at Carnson House, 2 East Terrace, Penzance, Cornwall, England TR18 2TD, Phone: 011-44-1736-365-589. It's a B&B and a sort of quirky old place (~275 years), having been everything from a dwelling to a brothel to a bakery, and not all rooms are en suite, but it's just a block from the train station, and the owners were lovely. You can have a look at it on Google.

And again, thanks all. Am taking all suggestions under advisement - which I guess in this case means, you advised me so I'm taking it as a suggestion.

I'm really hoping we can tuck enough in without feeling like we're on a fast treadmill, but am so looking forward to it.

Back with some questions about St. Ives, which we think is where we will be based for 4 days, 3 nights (thence to Exeter long enough to tramp around the cathedral on our way back to London). Our plan has us there toward the end of the first full week in Sept., which apparently is festival time in St. Ives. We still thought it made sense to try to stay there rather than Penzance - might enjoy some of the music, art. etc.

1. Unfortunately the Pedn Olva is fully booked for that time. Any other recommendations re: best place to stay? Our budget is moderate - can't quite afford the high end but can do better than a hostel, etc. Pedn Olva was toward upper part of our possible range, but location looked ideal, as did accommodations. Wish it weren't S.O.

Also, town seems to be rather 'hilly' or at least with pitched streets. Since we will be entirely on foot (with luggage some of the time), hoping to stay centrally and in less steep area.

2. Should we take half-board or stick to breakfast only, if dinner is available? Are there enough cafes and restaurants around that it's worth staying free to do that? I assume so (and we normally can't and don't eat heavily in the evening anyway) but always worth asking.

Thanks all.

(annhig - we took your suggestion re: Exeter, obviously).

To all: can reconsider staying in Penzance if you think St. Ives might be a little clogged with the arts/music festival. We know we want to do the Tate, and also a little down time just looking at the ocean. St. Ives seemed a pretty and quiet place to do that. But Penzance might afford more options, maybe? Dunno - never been there yet!

St. Ives could be very crowded during the festival. It starts after the families have gone but that's when the empty-nesters arrive in addition to festival goers. It is very hilly with most of the activity around the harbor and beaches. There are many cafés and restaurants, if you see a restaurant you like, stop in to book early in the day as they fill up.

Guest houses can be high above the harbor, inquire about local buses. There is a shuttle from the large car park at the leisure center at the top of the town, it does a circuit down to within a few streets of the harbor but I don't believe stops in between.

You may be better off in Penzance with day trips to St. Ives. Personally, I would not commit to a breakfast/dinner plan unless I had a good recommendation. Maybe commit to one night and see how it is.

if you can't get into the Pedn Olva [which is a short level walk from the station so ideal for those with luggage] then I would definitely suggest looking at PZ where there is a lot of medium priced accommodation, albeit you may find yourselves taking a cab there [which really won't cost much].

you can always do a day trip to St Ives by train [train to St Erth and change onto the branch line to St Ives] which may well be even more crowded than usual because of the festival. I would suggest eating at one of the beach bars [for which you may have to book] after seeing the Tate and then have a wander round the Hepworth Garden and the town before going back to PZ - that would be a lovely way to spend a day there.

I've never stayed in PZ so I can't really help with specifics about where to stay, but I can help you with locations if you find somewhere you like. [Ditto St Ives if you decide to stay there].

Finally re BnB v DBB, there are so many great places to eat in St Ives and PZ that I would never want to restrict myself to one place. Also you may find a great place for lunch and only want a small meal at night and it's nice to have that flexibility.

We have reservations at the Beachfield in Penzance. Waiting to hear from 2 places in Exeter about some specific questions.

I couldn't have gotten to this level of specificity without your help, friends - or maybe not so much specificity as confidence in choices.

Thank you again.

cfc- the Beachfield looks very nice and in a good location - convenient for the town but also on the Prom so good for evening walks - even as far as Newlyn if you are feeling energetic.

if you'd like some ideas for what to do and see in PZ. just let me know.

Looks like you made a great choice. Hope all goes well.

Thank you both annhig and Cathinjoetown, and all - you helped me arrive at an itinerary I'm really looking forward to. Your comments have been very valuable, pros and cons and asides, all.

In Exeter, we're at Queen's Court. It'll be a Sunday afternoon and evening, and it looks like we could even hear Evensong if we get there promptly enough. Sadly, the 251 steps to the top view are beyond my abilities.

Had looked at what used to be the Magdalen Chapter and is now the (sniff-sniffy) Hotel du Vin. Was now too rich for us, and the restaurant info suggested an intended foodie-magnet. Seems yet transitional - some of the website links aren't finished. Happy to look elsewhere. (Fodors still lists it as Magdalen Chapter, but I sent a correction. We'll see how long it takes them to update.)

While visiting St. Ives, will definitely do Tate and garden.

you could do worse than the restaurant at the Queen's Court - I usually eat there when I stay and it can be very good.

Or near the Cathedral there are a number of restaurants, including Caine's at the Abode hotel [which used to be the Royal Clarence].

When I first went to St. Ives, the village church down by the harbour had a beautiful Madonna and Child by Hepworth, given in memory of her son who was in the RAF.

Last time we went the church was fenced off with no info about what was going on. I hope maybe restoration. If open, have a look in. BTW, you're most welcome, it's been a pleasure discussing your trip with you.

Be sure to let us know how you got on!

Will be back mid-September. Reluctantly.

Watch this space.

Well, I'm baaa-acck. The time went far too quickly, partly because our first day ended in a blustering squall that nearly blew me back up the hill from the Penzance promenade. Indeed things around the station and lower "Market Jew st. seemed pretty dismal at 6 pm in the rain. But later and otherwise, it was lovely - sunny or with in-and-out clouds and warm breezes. Downright summery, esp. in St. Ives on Friday.

Before I get to specifics of where we stayed and ate, I want to say that I was astonished by what Cornwall turned out to be -- having little foreknowledge other than some books and Doc Martin (and we were nowhere near Port Isaac). Our first hours during which we mostly saw the Prominade and the fishing harbor were dismally chilly, and gray - reminding me of the least attractive New England fishing areas. We had planned to see Mount St. Michael, but the sea was too rough for the ferrying boats and we didn't want to deal with the causeway in late afternoon in the driving rain and wind. So we had to admire it from afar.

But then, the next two days, WOW! That incredible, brilliant turquoise-green water! The presence of palm trees and cacti amid the evergreens and lovely roses and other flowers made me think as much of Carmel as anywhere else -- except for the half-timber and Victorian seaside architecture instead of adobe, and the pasties instead of tacos. I'm sure I'm the zillionth American not to be ready for the lovely semi-tropical feel of the "Cornish Riviera."

We walked all over PNZ, saw the Pennlee gallery and gardens, then the Morrab library (book people, take note!) and gardens, and wandered some of the nicer areas up the hill, grabbing photos and marveling. There's an incomparable view out the upper windows of the Morrab, and I tried to imagine a project that would require me to work there.

The next day was for St. Ives (Mt. St. M's isn't open on Sat.), and the little train ride was every bit as pretty and charming as boasted in the guide books -- just too short a ride! We sauntered the beach and the waterfront, again being struck by comparisons with places like Provincetown MA and LaJolla! Sorry, a tourist can't always help being struck by both similarities and differences - but no judging better/worse - just like/unlike. And I'm sorry, Cathinjoetown, we didn't check out the church for the window (normally I gravitate to any stained glass), for reasons that were pretty mundane, something about finding bathrooms.....

But the biggest disappointment was finding that the Tate is closed until next year! I had carefully checked the website as I was planning (a while ago) to determine hours and see if I needed to prepurchase anything, and there was no mention of plans to close for an entire year. We opted not to clamber up the hill just for the Hepworth, partly out of laziness but also as an inducement to come back and do it right.

If we do get back, I would try to find a shared ride or tour to see SO much more around the peninsula. People do walk to some things I'd really have liked to see, but one of us is moving a lot more slowly than a while ago.

I suspect we saw a lot less of St. Ives than there is to see, all the way around. However, we were a bit touristed-out after 8 days in London, and wanted to be more in vacation mode. So we ate, had ice cream (Moo-maid, et al), and went back to Penzance as the sun was setting. Again - so pretty.

Our next and last visit was to Exeter, mainly to see the Cathedral. That was all I'd hoped, and then some. We timed it purposely to allow us to hear some of Evensong in the glorious acoustics of the place. Lovely. Peaceful. Then we made it down to the Quay for a proper fish and chips dinner (our only one on the entire trip) watching swans and seagulls battle it out for the free food along the river.

Next post - logistics.

Places we stayed:

Penzance: the Beachfield. Front rooms have pretty views but disturbing sounds in a gale, with the wind rather like a disgruntled witch humming and coughing. Lovely property, though, clean, well-tended, and exceptionally congenial staff. Rachel is a great story teller, and all went out of their way to be helpful. Breakfast is beyond filling if you order hot breakfast in addition to the buffet - and largely well done if unvarying. Dinners are ambitious but also vary less, night by night, than you'd like. Two alternating menus (MWF, TThS or some such) aren't as different from each other as they should be. Stick to whatever came in fresh and is special for the day. The soup was wonderful, pudding dangerous. Also filling.

Exeter: Queens Court is entirely agreeable and I was sorry we hadn't had their dinner -- nice as it was to wander the Quay. Like many BnB's, the arrangement of sockets in our room was spare and unhelpful; and there's a floodlight shooting upwards along the front wall that made a ceiling "light leak" that required using a blindfold. Still they were very very accommodating -- a lot of pride in ownership and partnership there, and it was another great breakfast.

Food outside the lodgings:

Penzance: We only had one other dinner there after the first night, when we stayed in the hotel. But it was exceptionally good at the Cornish Barn. Hours in Penzance seem to be rigid: stores close at 5, restaurants open at six. So that means a minimum of an hour for drinking (I don't drink, but have developed a taste for the elderflower softdrink). Traveling with a wine freak meant that I learned that these are knowledgeable people about ales and some wines. And we discovered that the chef has been educating himself about smoking meats and fish. He brought in a snippet of brisket for us to sample (not even knowing we'd spent a long time in NC with all kinds of 'que) that was very very good. We ordered a smoked half-lobster and instantly regretted having eaten anything else all day because a whole lobster would have been outstanding. On retrospect I think our mistake was partly our experience with US places that operate on the bigger-is-better theory re: lobsters (**note: if you really know your lobster, the chicken lobsters -- 1.5 lbs. or so -- have more taste than the big uncles that can be double that size or more**). We ordered the half-lobster to save a little money, but then the sides were superb too.

Interestingly, T-advisor rankes the Cornish Barn 17th out of 138 restaurants in Penzance. First, that's too low, even with the couple of upscale, highend places in town. Second, I'll be damned if I can remember seeing anything like 138 restaurants there... but it was late, late in the season, so maybe...

St. Ives: we had to leave too early for the Pedn Olva's dining room (or many other places that were appealing) and were also a bit full from the street food. So we grabbed a fish stew and a family stand of no special note and regretted that. Next time, we'll be much more picky.

Exeter: I won't bother to name the riverside place where we had the fish'n'chips, because it was generic and fairly typical of anything you'd find in such a clustering of places - and the service was flirtatious among itself and brusque with us. Instead I'd recommend the Queen's Court's Olive Tree - the careful menu and fragrances coming from the dining room suggested it would be a good option.

Thanks for getting back to us about your trip. It was an actually a sculpture inside the church that I hoped you would see, Madonna and child by Barbara Hepworth. I have to do some research about what is going on with the church. They may have moved it as being too valuable to be housed in an unattended church. Wish you could have seen Hepworth's atelier and sculpture garden, maybe next time!

Good news for St. Ives visitors:

http://www.stiveschurch.org.uk/Lady_Chapel.html

Oh, of course a sculpture - read it as tribute and misinterpreted.

Would love to see Hepworth stuff - would have had to leave companion down alone in the town - inadvisable.

Thanks for link - sweet, poignant sculpture. Had poignant madonna/child moment at Exeter, actually, in front of "Our Lady" chapel rose window -- re: being a mother, having had a mother, knowing a mother in pain now.

Penzance: the Beachfield. Front rooms have pretty views but disturbing sounds in a gale, with the wind rather like a disgruntled witch humming and coughing. >>

thanks for the laugh, cfc - that sounds just like our house!

loved your report, it is so accurate about the highs and lows of being in Cornwall, from the weather, to the views, to the dismal appearance of Market Jew Street at 6pm on a wet evening. There is a definite opening for a business that sets out to fill the gap between when the shops shut at 5pm and the restaurants open at about 6.30pm.

And thanks for the recommendation of the Cornish barn - I don't know it but next time we're in PZ, I'll give it a go.