Loveitaly, put yourself in the merchant's shoes.

You hear a voice on the phone read you a credit card number and an address. You send the goods to the address.

Later...

You get a notice from Visa asking you to validate the transaction, because the cardholder says they didn't order anything. What recourse do you think you have?

Hi Ropespiere, I am not "arguing" about anything. I was just commenting that I have often ordered via an 800 telephone number merchandise as a gift and have had the merchandise sent to an address which is not my address. These comapanies (such as William Sonoma for example) encourage customers to order merchandise for gift giving, they even giftwrap and enclose a gift card for you.

I do use my credit card, not my debit card. I have never had a problem. But I am sure that some merchandiser's have, especially with electronic/computer equipment etc.

Only problem I have had in years was ordering a book for me via a company. Got charged on my credit card, never received the book, emailed the company about 5 times and finally called them and got a recording that their voice mail was filled up and could not accept any more calls. I called my CC Co. and they reversed the charge for me. Never did receive the book.

Freudian slip?

Issues of charges extend way beyond two addresses. A couple years ago we booked a hotel in Homer, Alaska. When I called to reconfirm a few weeks before arrival, they looked and looked and coundn't find a reservation. I rebooked. After staying there, I was surprised on my credit card statement that there two charges for the same dates (this amounted to several hundred dollars). I called the hotel, and they insisted that the one reservation was a no-show so they had charged the account. There was no reasoning with them that clearly we weren't a no show as we were there and they had also billed us for the room we did stay in. Ends up that they originally had reversed my first and last names and that's why they couldn't find the reservation when we checked, yet they were able to charge both the room we stayed in and the originally reserved room to my credit card. Nothing I could say to them would convince them that they should credit one of the charges. I called Citibank and told them the story. Within 24 hours the entire double charge was removed.

Now my question is -- if those had been done to a debit card and the amounts were automatically withdrawn from my bank accout, would we have gotten our money back?

And about that double address situation. We recently had a bit of indentity theft of a credit card number (no the card itself was not stolen). We caught the problem because we got a call from Sony.com asking us to confirm an order we had placed going to another address. We said NO, it wasn't us and they cancelled the order -- telling us they always confirm such orders if the bill to and shipping addresses are different. Meanwhile when I went to the account on the internet, I found two other charges which had gone through -- same scenario, except they hadn't called to confirm. Citibank immediately credited both those charges. We cancelled the card and were issued a new one. So clearly some places won't ship without confirming -- others will. And again, we only needed to contact the credit card company to instantly handle the dispute.

I don't know. You <u>should</u> have, and I <u>have</u> had bogus transactions reversed under the terms of my Cardholder Agreement. Usually within days. I have also had both credit card and debit card reversals refused.

In your case, it should have been abundantly clear to the credit card company that the innkeeper screwed up. The fact that they tried to foist off the charge on you does not surprise me. Their error cost them money (assuming they could have sold the empty room to someone else).

In any case, the protection afforded by your agreement with the card issuer is almost identical for debit or credit.

If debit cards didn't offer equivalent protection, I would think the word would get out pretty fast - and they wouldn't sell any of them. And that would be bad from the issuers' point of view, because they make tons of money from them (by not having to carry the float from the time transactions are settled to when the bill gets paid).

As I have said repeatedly: if a card is used fraudulently, it is the MERCHANT who eats the charge (except in the rogue merchant scenario).

Therefore, it is incumbent upon the seller to verify that a card is good - and that includes not sending goods to another address unless he's pretty sure it's legit. Mail/phone/internet orders are authenticated by the CVV. &quot;Card present&quot; transactions are authenticated by a signature (and sometimes ID).

From the National Consumers' League:

Under Government regulations, financial institutions may have up to 20 days to provide provisional credit to consumers for losses due to debit card theft or unauthorized use of the card.
Some debit card issuers promise faster provisional credit in case of fraudulent use. For example, issuers of one type of check card will give customers provisional credit for lost funds within five business days of notification.
You may find that your debit card or its number have been stolen only when you learn that checks you have written have bounced. Be aware that the issuer is not required to waive bounced check charges or cover any fees that may be imposed by the recipients of checks that unintentionally bounced because a debit card was stolen. Many banks do, however, refund these fees as a measure of good customer service.

Debit cards are accepted in most hotels, stores, and restuarants. However, carry extra Euro for cab fair, trains, or small snacks.

Hi KSWL, good information, thanks.

I will continue to do as I always have. ATM/Debit for cash from ATM and credit card for all purchases. I get FF miles for credit charges, I have never paid an annual fee for any card and always pay every CC bill in full before the due date so have never paid an interest charge. This &quot;conversation&quot; tends to come up about every week or so doesn't it?

Happy 4th of July weekend everyone.

Hi LoveItaly, yes that website if very informative.

[I am doing a last email check as we're in the midst of packing for our Alaska cruise (leaving at 5:30 a.m for airport) and have NEVER taken so much stuff. We have a huge 28&quot;, a 26&quot;, a hang-up bag, a 21&quot;, all to be checked (I can't believe I am writing that) and I have a carry-on and a leather healthy back pack I'm using as a purse, and husband has a carry-on and a laptop. While aboard DH has work to do, we're taking several &quot;wilderness&quot; trips, there's a fancy anniversary party for the in-laws (traveling in a very large family party not unlike a herd of wildebeest) and a luncheon for same. Having been scared to death about the changeable weather I have packed for a temp. range from 45 to 80 degrees. Someone on the packing light thread suggested sending the luggage ahead, carriage forward, but I'm not sure we could afford the freight. Worried about overweight charges tomorrow, but . . . at least we will be Prepared for Anything.

Hi KSWL, I did not know you were leaving for Alaska in a few hours! But I have not had a lot of time to myself the month of June so need to catch up on things.

Wishing you and yours a beautiful trip! And sure understand about the packing and the luggage. Ugh, decisions, decisions.

Have a fun and safe trip. And good luck with the luggage ::)

Travelnut-

&quot;According to the recent fee notices, my debit card will not incur additional 'conversion' fees, whereas my credit cards will. That is an advantage. (and paying as I go in 'cash' not credit is one for me).&quot;

Just wondering, does this mean there is no fee for using the ATM to withdraw money, or just no additional conversion fee like the 1-3% by Visa or whatever? I am just wondering, because (in case you can't tell) i'm not very savvy with credit cards/debit cards/banking in general.

No longer directed at just Travelnut-I'm trying to figure out the best way to get a large sum of money from a bank in the US to a bank in Coleraine, NI for the littlest loss as possible. Someone suggested instead of wire transferring the money that I should just take it out of an ATM and deposit in a bank. Would this help with conversion rate, too?

It seems to me a lot of time people here need to talk to their bank to get the exact answer to their question. We can only give general answers. Each institution has different fees etc. so talking to someone that knows what their bank charges is the best way to handle IMO.

&quot;...Just wondering, does this mean there is no fee for using the ATM to withdraw money, or just no additional conversion fee like the 1-3% by Visa or whatever? ...&quot;

I meant no additional 2-3% <u>conversion fee</u> added by your BANK. Visa always charges a 1%, even on debit cards. It is very rare for a bank to not pass that 1% onward. Others say you aren't charged for an ATM <u>withdrawal fee</u> by a European ATM, but might be charged one by your own bank.

I was always charged $1.50 by my bank to withdraw money in Europe. Not horrible. I just made sure I always withdrew at least a 100 euros.

Anyway, definitely get a VISA debit card. I used mine in England, Spain, France, Switzerland, Germany, and in the Czech Republic... in each country it was very easy to locate ATMs.

I often paid for my food with my debit card and used it in stores. If they accept the Visa credit card they will accept the debit card b/c it functions the same.

Go look at the pages beginning at https://www.xe.com/fx/how.htm for information on transferring money to <b>Northern Ireland</b> without paying commission or transaction fees.

Well, actually it depends on the type of card, some debt cards have a chip while others have a magnetic band, i went to Austria 2 years ago and the problem was that their cards use chips while mine has a magnetic band so i couldnt use the card at some paces or cashiers, they did have cashiers for my card type but difficult to find.