Very early planning stage for trip to Switzerland - help please
 

We are thinking of a two-week trip to Switzerland, mid May/early June next year, flying into Zürich and out of Geneva. We will be traveling by train.

The time and length of travel is very flexible as we are both retired.

We have lots of Marriott points, so we want to take advantage and stay in Zürich a few days to see the area and to get over the jet lag. Zürich is the only city that has Marriott hotels in Switzerland. There are lots of information on the board of the other regions but hardly anything about Zürich, is it worth it even with the free hotel? Should we move onto Luzern instead?

This is what I have in mind:
Zürich - 3 to 4 nights
Lauterbrunnen – 3 to 4 nights
Zermatt – 3 to 4 nights
Lausanne – 3 to 4 nights
Fly out of Geneva – maybe one night in Geneva, the Continental flight we want to take leaves Geneva at 9:15am.

I am trying to use OnePass points for the trip, but no seats available for 50,000 points. They said check later...

Rick and I are in our late 50's, in fairly good shape but not avid hikers. We like a mixture of things, but basically city folks.

Rick went to high school in Geneva but has not been back since. I am assuming that he wants to go back to see the old school and the surrounding area. So Geneva is a must.

Please comment on the places that we've selected to use as bases. Since this is such an early stage of our planning, any suggestions are welcome.

As for lodging, we like good, clean, with character, and inexpensive places (<$150 if possible).

One question on the train: Is there enough luggage rack space in 2nd class? We just got back from a trip to Amsterdam, Brugge, and Paris by train, we had trouble to fit our wheeled duffels on the racks. We used BETS for our tickets in Europe and was very happy with their services and will use them again for this trip.

Thanks.

Pat

>One question on the train: Is there enough luggage rack space in 2nd class? We just got back from a trip to Amsterdam, Brugge, and Paris by train, we had trouble to fit our wheeled duffels on the racks.

It depends very much on the individual train. There is usually quite a lot of space between the backs of the seats.

>We used BETS for our tickets in Europe and was very happy with their services and will use them again for this trip.

I would recommend to use the SBB (Swiss railways) directly if you want to get individual tickets. Contrary to some trains in France and Belgium there is no advantage and no need to buy the tickets in advance in Switzerland. If you wat to get a Swiss Pass or similar, BETS will be better though.

I was thinking of getting the 15-day consecutive train pass, this way I can just hop on and off any time I want. Might be less stressful on planning.

The wheeled luggage we have are 26", they will not fit under the seat. If 1st class has more luggage space, I might spend the extra $.

Pat

>The wheeled luggage we have are 26", they will not fit under the seat

Not under the seat, between the backs of the seats.

I am not sure about what 26´´ means, but a large(ish) rolling suitcase usually fits in.
No, there is no more luggage space in the 1st, just less people.

Ok, if there is no more luggage space in 1st class, then 2nd class it is for us. Thanks.

Pat

I can only comment on Zurich & Lauterbrunnen. We stayed 5 nights in Lauterbrunnen & 1 night in Zurich:
http://www.staubbach.com/index2.htm
http://www.st-josef.ch/

In my opinion I would stay just 2 nights in Zurich to overcome jetlag and see the city and add days on to Lauterbrunnen and some place else. From Lauterbrunnen you can easily visit the Jungfrau, Schilthorn, Interlaken, ride a gondola, and so much more. We really enjoyed Trummelbach Falls too, although it is a little tough on the legs (we are not hikers either).

We were able to day-trip to Montreaux on the Golden Pass Railroad (that was the day we were getting over our jetlag).

May is a great time to visit because there aren't too many crowds and the weather is pleasant.

Even if you are not hikers, it is still a good idea while planning a trip to spend a little time working on your fitness. Take some walks, get on a treadmill for an hour a day. The best things in Europe are experienced on foot and the fitter you are , the more you can do and see. We love traveling by train....but you still have to walk to the platforms, walk to the bus stations, etc. Many places don't have elevators or lifts. Many places are accessible only by stairs (churches, castles, etc)
Wow...the train service is great to Geneva airport, but you'll need to be there at least by 7. I'd stay as close as possible that night!

26" inch is too big imo for using getting around by train. Can you take a smaller bag, it will be much easier.

I can help with the Vevey/Montreux area outside Geneva once you get down to planning activities. Hotel Negotiants and Hotel Geneve are in that price range (they are rooms over a restaurant type of hotel, excellent central location in Vevey).

Agree that you don't need but a couple of days in Zurich. You could use the additional days in Lucerne before going to Lauterbrunnen. I would opt for the full 4 days in Lauterbrunnen as there is a lot to do as previously mentioned. The rest of your trip looks fine.

In Lauterbrunnen, we stayed at the Hotel Oberland which we liked very much. But there are several nice hotels that are reasonably priced.

But if you would like to keep hotel cost down by using their Marriot points, then 3 nights in Zürich would be fine. You can visit Luzern from there---it's a short trip by train, and you would have a full day to take a boat ride and even ride up the cablecar from Weggis to Rigi Kaltbad for a walk there if it is a nice day.

I think your itinerary sounds very nice--a good mix of cities, mountains, lakes, and different regions.

As for luggage on the trains---many 2d class cars have luggage space at the end of the car, just as you board. Much easier than trying to take the bags down the aisle to your seats. But if you do that, as altamiro said there is space between the seat backs---they form a sort of "A-frame" and I've always been able to fit my bag (22" roller) there.

IN Zermatt, if you would like to keep costs down, rent an apartment---some will be available for 3- or 4-night stays early in the season when you are there (later many require a full week). We found a luxury 2-bdr, 2-bath apartment that slept 6 of us for 2/3 the cost of one double hotel room (240 CHF instead of 360).

Linda, I am sure we will hike, maybe hike every 3rd day? We can walk 10 miles a day, that's what we did in Paris and Amsterdam last month. Rick wore a pedometer so we can measure the distance. But 10 miles on flat paved road is quite different than hiking at high altitude. I will drag Rick for hikes in the local area, we live in Tustin, about 50 miles south of Los Angeles, there are many places for hiking (so I heard). Yah, I will find a airport hotel for the last night in Geneva.

HalfAPair and Betty, what about 2 nights in Zürich, 3 nights in Luzern, and 4 nights in Lauterbrunnen?

Suze, you are so right, dragging the 26" duffel was no fun on the train. They are even too wide to put between the seat (when the seats are back to back). I will keep my eyes open for another option.

Pat

Hi Pat
We were in Switzerland in May this year and had a wonderful time.
I have to agree that Lauterbrunnen was the hightlight and we had 3 nights there and wish we had 5!
The Jungfrau and Schilthorn are just amazing and one of our highlights was an easy walk between villages ...we just left the train and walked "strolled" and had a picnic with the snowy Alps around us, daisy covered fields, waterfalls and cows with bells..it was superb. The Schilthorn cable car rides are also breathtaking.We stayed at the Staubach (spelling may be out!) Hotel and paid the extra for a room with a view of the falls and mountains and it was wonderful and the service great. it was not expensive.
Hope this helps in your planning.
Rosie

Hmm...Enzian, so stay in Zurich for 3 days and visit Luzern as a day trip? That's not a bad idea, since it is only a 50 minute train ride to Luzern.

Now that I have a size to work on, I will try to look out for a 22" wheeled luggage.

I just googled on Zermatt holiday apartments, the price ranges from 45CHF to 170 CHF per night for a 4 star one room apartment. Hotel Alpenstern and Holiday Flats has a website, it looks very nice. Thanks for the tip.

Pat

I can't quite make do with a 22" myself. But I find a 24" roller is perfect. I try to keep the packed weight to about 25-30 lbs.

Pat,

For Zermatt, I suggest you look at ww.zermatt.ch---there is a complete listing of apartments/chalets. I didn't even make it though the "A's" before I found ours. But I also had the brochure from the tourist info office, which they sent me by mail upon request (made on the website, I believe). This has a town map with all the hottel and apartment locations indicated---very useful for planning. Also a photo of each building.

When inquiring about an apartment, make sure that bedding/towels and final cleaning (Endreinigung) are included in the price. Also confirm whether or not the place has a view of the Matterhorn---most people want that.

If you can walk 10 miles, you will be fine on many of the paths in the mountains around Lauterbrunnen. There are 2 in particular---one high up on either side of the Lauterbrunnen valley---that are nearly level but offer terrific views of the mountains (and cows).

Well, now that we know we're dealing with the female partner....let me give you some packing tips! Hiking weight 9nylon blend) pants and capris are wonderful, as are wrinle free shirts. Nix jeans, they are heavy. You can gert a 'traveler's dress' from mMgellan or Chico's and match it with a jacket and slecks. Two scarfs, you have 4 outfits. No need to lug many shoes or purses. Pack your shampoo and toiletries in tiny containers. Take some detergent and wash things out every couple days (the best idea!) You really can pack ultralight, trust me!!

Linda, so cool, I can use all my Africa stuff for this trip (we went to Kenya after Paris for a two week safari). I have a couple pairs of zip-off pants, very light weight shirts, fleece jacket, and even quick dry socks. I should be all set. I have 8 months to come up with suitable luggage. Oh, I always travel with a small bottle of Woolite and portable clothe line, some hotels charge $8 to wash a pair of underwear.

Enzian, found a 5-star apartment on zematt.ch, it faces the Matterhorn, including linen and final cleaning for 115CHF per night. Great deal. I've also submitted a request for brochures. Thanks.

Pat

Excellent find on the apartment--- Just be sure to check the location. Ours was in Winkelmatten, a 25-minute walk from the main station. Great in-your-face views of the Matterhorn, but some would think it too far from the main part of Zermatt (we did not, but we were there to walk/hike anyway).

Switzerland is pretty casual, clothes-wise, expecially outside the cities, so your Africa naylon pants/fleece things will be perfect. On our last trip, I fit all I needed in a 22-inch bag, and still had clothes I never wore.

If you are buying train passes---you can get them from Rick Steves (for the same price as BETS, RailEurope, etc.) and they include 20 % anything you buy at their travel store---including luggage. I bought their 22" roller bag even tho' we have several other bags (Eagle Creek and Victorinox). I used it for the last trip and liked it, although I packed it too full so that it was quite heavy.

Enzian,
We might be talking about the same apartment. The one I found is
HAUS LA VALLÉE
A New luxurious Chalet with 7 units. Great Matterhorn view. Located in the quiet and popular subdivision "Winkelmatten".

Not sure about the 25 minute walk into town though, have to think about that one.

Pat

Your train pass will be good for Swiss buses and boats also. You will probably want to ride a boat on Lac Leman and at least one of Lake Thun and Brienz. (These are the two lakes Interlaken is between.) The boat for Lake Brienz leaves from Interlaken Ost, the station for Lauterbrunnen. You can get off in the town of Brienz and take a connecting bus to the Ballenberg Open Air Museum.

Taking the train in Switzerland is very much the way to go. But are you able to lift those 26" suitcases overhead? Actually they'll probably not fit in the overhead racks. Plus you'll be carrying them up and down stairs when you change trains. Look for smaller lightweight luggage.

We were in Switzerland over this time period and some things were closed in May. It's between seasons and they do maintenance on the funiculars, etc. Plus some of the summer tourist attractions were not yet open. It's still a good time to go.

Mimar,

I am rethinking seriously about the 26" wheeled luggage, I could not even lift it up the steps onto the train. 21" or 22" is what I will be shopping for. I just realized that these can be carry ons, that is a very attractive alternative, as the airlines lost our luggages when we arrived in Amsterdam this past month. That reminds me that I need to contact KLM to get some of my shopping money back.

I also found out that May is the month for constructions in Zermatt, as that is the only month a truck can enter the city. So... Maybe I will move the trip to the first two weeks of June. I think the high season officially starts on June 21.

I am supposed to go to the southern part of China for some volunteer work for the month of July, so I want to be back and rest for a couple of weeks before leaving again. Who said retirement life is easy?

Pat

Pat, I've been retired all my life, it's never easy! LOL. I remember giving Budman advice for his Swiss trip in May. He had a lot of rain. I've been three times in June and had perfect weather. We were in the valley one over from Zermatt, the Val D'Anniviers, from June 17-23 and it was perfect. 70's and sunshine. You won't find swarms of tourists at that time, mostly Americans and Japanese; the European kids are still in school. You'll see older Brits, too. The buses are great. You can visit lots of the charming towns and villages via buses. With the pass, you just flash it and ride as you please. We absolutely loved that option. Of course, we also got lost a few times, but a trip back was always free. You'll love the casual feel of Switzerland. Everyone dresses in hiking/traveling clothes and you see ALL ages with backpacks. The only place I saw stupid shoes and designer duds was in Lugano.

HI Pat---setting your trip back a couple of weeks is a good idea. Last night I realized I should tell you that May is pretty early for Zermatt---there would still be lots of snow on the upper areas. As for the construction--well, that is going on all the time. We found lots of construction trucks zipping around in early July. They were the little electric ones, but still. Maybe it's full-size ones they allow in May? I don't know.

I checked the location of Haus de la Vallee. There is a map that shows it, and the orientation of Winkelmatten in relation to the main part of Zermatt, here:

http://tinyurl.com/3yd6bc

Our apartment was further out (more to the right in the map), across the river. No. 1219 on the map. Haus de la Vallee is closer in, but still a good walk from the center. We liked that---enjoyed the walk in and back each day, and the neighborhood is nice. I believe there is a minimart nearby, but for main groceries you would need to go back to the station area. There is a little bus; I can't remember the cost because we never used it.

It is very close to the Klein Matterhorn lift complex, so if you go up there instead of the Gornergrat it is quite convenient.

Ok, I THINK this is what I want to do, leaving Calif on May 31, buy the 15 day Swiss pass:

3 nights Zürich
5 nights Lauterbrunnen
3 nights Zermatt
3 nights Lausanne
1 night Geneva Airport hotel

Questions:
Should I trim a day from Lauterbrunnen and add a couple of days in Lugano or somewhere around there?

How should I arrange the trip to make the most of the train? Where do I go first after Zürich?

I am afraid (petrified is more like it) of height, am I going to freak out with the gondola rides? I don't think I can handle the chair lifts, but gondolas... maybe. I was fine on the London Eye.

Pat

Pat--I think you have them in just the right order.

Just to confuse things, you might consider a 3-day Flex Pass ($156 each if you are buying 2) instead of the 15-day pass ($286 each for 2 people). You really have only 3 major travel days: Zürich to Lauterbrunnen ,; Lauterbrunnen to Zermatt, and Zermatt to Lausanne. The last trip from Lausanne to Geneva is pretty inexpensive. The 3-day Flexpass gives you 1/2 off all your other tickets between the first and last day of use---this would cover any excursions, including the high mountain trips (on the dreaded cable cars) which are only 1/2 off even with a full 15-day pass. The $130 you would save with the 3-day pass would buy a lot of transport. You do give up something in convenience, but not much.

As for the cablecars, do not worry. They are large (the size of a small room) and stable. And they are Swiss! (Meaning very well-engineered and reliable).

Thanks Enzian, I will keep that in mind. It is too early to buy pass, I think I have to wait until March.

Something strange happened when I try to make hotel reservations. First, I tried to make a airport hotel reservation in Geneva and found out almost everything was booked for June 16. Finally got one for Holiday Inn in France, near the Geneva airport. Then I tried to book into a Marriott in Zürich, there are three there. One was unavailable for awards, one has to use ANYTIME award (50% more points), so I booked the only one that is available with standard award. Something must be happening in June there.

Pat

Pat---ordinarily I would say that it is just too early to book, they haven't put the rooms on the internet yet. But---next year (2008) there is a huge football (soccer) tournament going on in June in Switzerland (and Austria), from 7 June to 29 June. The games will be held in Geneva, Zurich, Basel and Berne. That is probably affecting the reservations online.

Enzian, that explains it!

Rick has fond memories of Vevey/Montreux area, so I started looking for something there instead of Lausanne. People seemed to prefer Vevey/Montreux over Lausanne on this board too.

I think Suze's friend recommended Négociants in Vevey, I liked what I saw on their web-site, so I booked a 3 night stay with them.

I am very careful with the cancellation policies of the lodges, in case there is a change.

Pat

Using Montreaux/Vevey as a based for the Lausanne area is an excellent idea ...

Hurray! Good move. I've nothing against Lausanne, only that it is so much larger. Vevey and Montreux are much easier to get around in and the quai along the lake thru both towns is lovely. And the train stations are right there, a short walk from the central area in both places. Lausanne a bit more of a hassle (getting from the train station to the lake, for example).

Thanks everyone, this phase of the planning is almost done. I am waiting for the two books that I ordered from Amazon to finish the more detailed planning.

"Swiss Bernese Oberland: A Travel Guide with Specific Trips to the Mountains, Lakes and Villages, Third Edition"
Philip Alspach, and "Rick Steves' Switzerland 2007".

Thanks again.

Pat

Pat....also look at the myswitzerland.com website. It has great info!