US looking into preclearance at European airports
 

The Guardian newspaper (UK) is reporting that the US has approached five European countries about the possibility of installing CBP preclearance facilities. It would be like the system that already exists in Ireland and Canada where fliers to the US pass through US passport control before boarding their flights. That would give them essentially domestic arrivals when they get to America.

The five countries are the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, and Sweden. The Guardian reports that, so far, the UK is the only one to express interest in the idea.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...cks-passengers

Glad that they're looking at countries that take security very seriously. Except that for LHR one will now need to lead forever in advance of the flight.

this would be great. it would be great to pop off the plane in new york after a long flight, grab your bags and go! instead of waiting on those long lines...

Grab your bags and go? At a NYC airport? I doubt that.

I would hate this system since you need to claim your bags in Europe and then recheck them. Flight connections don't give enough time to do this.

And if you have to wait in a passport control line in Europe you'll need to get to the airport extra early.

More bureaucratic turf building. The old INS had been working on this back in 1988 when I was at the embassy. Homeland Security has the same priorities. They want to build an overseas presence -- which necessarily infringes on the State Dept's turf. This will be determined by departmental infighting, even if the host countries agree (which they shouldn't, at least until the DHS is staffed by personnel at least roughly comparable to an FSO, and not the untrained policeman they presently employ).

Well, i just got Global Entry - maybe I'll "win" either way.

"Grab your bags and go? At a NYC airport? I doubt that.

That's EXACTLY what happens in New York on most flights from Canada, from Ireland and from London on BA001 via Shannon.

It´s very expensive to keep personnel in foreign countries, not to mention additional costs for facilities and equipment. Immigration can be done much more cost effectively within the USA.

No one without Global Entry should be complaining about lines at Immigration.

<i>I would hate this system since you need to claim your bags in Europe and then recheck them. </i>

We flew from Paris to NYC via Dublin with a layover and U.S. Immigration and Customs in Dublin. We did not have to recheck out bags. Customs has a flat screen which shows the bags and the agent asks us to identify it. That's all.

Well you still have to wait and identify your bags. Frankfurt connections don't give enough time for this extra step so I hope this process is not adopted in Germany.

flanneruk - never fly through Newark as you'll have a long wait for your bags.

That would be a boondoggle for any C&BP personnel stationed in Europe.

I see it is a ginormous waste of time and resources. If adopted, I hope the host countries make the U.S. foot the bill for the modifications that will have to made at the airports and charge them rent for their spot of "American soil" in the airport.

I'm pretty sure I did this in Schipol a few years back, certainly I was interviewed by an American on a lecturn

bilbo - no you didn't. That was security, not immigration or customs - you still have to go through those on arrival in the US when flying from Schiphol. You can join Privium at Schiphol if you have Global Entry.

As a non US citizen I like the idea. There is nothing worse than standing for over an hour in a queue for immigration after an 11 hour flight. If you know it will happen in Europe you allow extra time at the airport before the flight.

Not sure how it would be organised though - Schiphol would have to designate a pier for such things, and how would it work at Heathrow - all US flights leaving from a single terminal? That would be a pain for people connecting through the airport.

As for the worry that there isn't enough time during a connection in Europe, you'd have to build in a longer connection there. Airlines would have to increase their minimum connection time in the UK for flights to the US. The payoff would be that you just go right to your connecting gate when you arrive at the US airport.

You would think they could just put someone on an aircraft and walk from one end to the other

I just flew through Newark from Frankfurt and I have to say the lines were very short even for those without Global Entry, which I have.
My brother entered the same gateway with his daughter, he has the Global entry and she does not. He waited with her and he was amazed at how quickly he got through.

Also. I don't think I waited more than 10 minutes for my bag and recheck took about 10 seconds. Someone met everyone at the recheck point and just scanned the bag tag with a hand scanner and we were on our way.

Of course, even this does not help if you are looking at a tight connect time and the plane does not land on time.

"how would it work at Heathrow?"

Simply a matter for discussion. The shops - and UK Immigration - use simple labour scheduling software that lets them move staff between terminals as demand fluctuates - and is sort of predictable, since long haul arrival times are known at least 6.5 hours ahead of time, and departures are more or less known weeks ahead.

Presumably the American government can learn from professional border control management how to enter the last half of the 20th century? Though obviously, comparing the mess the American Constitution seems to mandate for foreign visitors at JFK and Atlanta, I suppose the answer to that question is no.

The US HAS tried this at Heathrow before, and ran away whingeing about how it was too difficult for them, poor dears.

Heathrow's had a change of ownership since, and I understand the US bureaucrats have moved to a different department. Nonetheless I have 100% confidence in the US government's ability to say "no, we can't" when asked to adapt to a different environment.

What I meant Flanner was will they offer it in all terminals with flights to the US, or will it be only in one?

Flanner, I doubt the US would say, "No, we can't." The US is the one who is pushing this. So far, the UK is the only one of the five countries that has expressed interest.

Great idea!

This is why I always try to fly through Dublin. The local Irish "TSA" are polite and professional. The US customs and immigration officers are also polite. Since they don't have to deal with a crush of passengers and usually not those of questionable backgrounds (smuggling, etc), they are laid back and pleasant.
I joked once with one is this was his pre-retirement post. Just how many passengers fly to the US daily via Dublin compared to the onslaught of arrivals at JFK?

Plus grabbing my bag as if it were a domestic flight at JFK is great.

This is so typical of the US government and bureaucrats and the solution should be very simple. Actually some of my longest waits at immigration, flanneruk, is at Heathrow where it is not unheard of to wait close to an hour. I would, if I were the UK government for example to say to the US fine. You want to install US checkpoints at Heathrow, then we should do UK immigration and customs say at JFK.

But then of course, US immigration is so friendly to our visitors. I mean the thumbprint and the picture (which of course don't do the slightest bit of good to ensure the vermin who intend to stay illegally leave) and the now extra requirement to go online before the flight to declare your intent to have the audacity to visit the USA. Like any of this garbage does any good.

XYZ123, do you have personal experience with any of this? I notice you have concealed your whereabouts on your profile so that says a great deal.

To my mind, I'm not sure I see that much value. Certainly, I don't see a lot of value in doing this for Sweden of all places. I can see the value for Canada - it allows smaller cities to have service without having to have immigration infrastructure. For example, Rochester, NY has a flight to Toronto, but I don't think they have immigration infrastructure in place. I don't see any similar opportunities opened up by this. I'd think that the priority should be on setting up pre-clearance in the larger Mexican resort cities, if anything.

<i>The US HAS tried this at Heathrow before, and ran away whingeing about how it was too difficult for them, poor dears. </i>

I've seen this claim before and can find absolutely no evidence that there was ever pre-clearance at LHR. Until someone can show me evidence that it did, I'm going to toss this up as folklore, likely resulted from some people with bad memories making the same mistake as bilbo did above.

I've concealed my whereabouts? What does that have to do with anything I said? I'm fronm the US, okay. The longest queues I have seen at immigration are at LHR although this past summer when I was leaving for a cruise going out of Vancouver and was connecting in Toronto, the line for Canadian immigration was absurdly long.

The fact is, of course, that so much of this paranoia with US immigration is just that and any thinking person can say how little good it does. Sure. They fingerprint you. They take your picture. How does it ensure you will leave at the end of whatever the allowable period is? Do they have the ability to match up leaving records with arriving records and issue detain warrants for anybody who overstays his or her entrance period? Of course not. As an American it indeed embarrasses me coming into JFK and watching visitors having their mug shots taken as well as being fingerprinted like common criminals. No country has yet done thaqt to me.

Dublin has a beautiful, spacious airport (very much under used), but the pre-clearance location sucks! The space is cramped and confusing, no services to speak of, and duty free is a joke. Not much thought went into its planning.

Hopefully if they do set up the pre-clearance operations in other locations they at least do it in a better plan.

I fly to the US only 2-3 times a year, so my experiences are more anecdotal.
But I noticed a good improvement re. the speed and efficiency of the INS procedure upon arrival.

I am sure that the long lines still exist - but both at major hubs or airports like ATL or IAD as well as at some smaller ones like PHL, passport control has been really quick the last 10 or so times (waiting time zero-15 minutes).

And I must also say that at least my experiences re. friendliness or efficiency of the INS officers had been more in the "fair" or "good" category during the last couple of years. In addition, there were always agents monitoring the incoming "traffic" at the checkpoints, and when lines for visitors got longer, they started to open US citizen checkpoints also for visitors.

I can understand that after a 10 hour flight you just want to race through the airport as quickly as possible and may not be in the mood to appreciate improvements, but I think it is not fair to say that entering as a visitor was by default an unpleasant and time-consuming task.

IMO, the waiting time for visitors could be further reduced if the lines discriminated between those traveling on the visa waiver scheme, and others entering with visas of all kinds which often seem to require a lot more time to process.

<i>As an American it indeed embarrasses me coming into JFK and watching visitors having their mug shots taken as well as being fingerprinted like common criminals. No country has yet done thaqt to me.</i>

I take it you haven't been to Japan.

<I>Of course not. As an American it indeed embarrasses me coming into JFK and watching visitors having their mug shots taken as well as being fingerprinted like common criminals. </I>

You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

<I>No country has yet done thaqt to me.</I>

Several Asian countries fingerprint, including Japan and Korea. Many countries take photos too. Heck, you are likely under video surveillance at passport control in pretty much every advanced country.

I have no complaints about how the immigration officers treat us on arrival in the U.S. They are professional but friendly and some even show a sense of humour.
What I hate is standing in a queue for an hour before I get to be photographed and fingerprinted.
Even with extra staff checking the forms are correctly filled in before you get to the happysnaps stage the queues are too long.

The worst welcome to a country I have ever experienced was in Cork, where we were ordered to stand against a wall in a corridor and a drugs fog and a couple of offials went down the line, shouting at anyone not standing exactly how they wanted. Before immigration, which was another miserable experience. I loved Ireland once they let me in, but I hated being treated as a criminal. They made even the most grumpy US immigration officer seem welcoming.
That is one reason we aren't flying through Dublin next month.

No I haven't been to Japan. Noted and logged. However, I do believe in tit for tat. Why for example if I suddenly decided at this moment that I wanted to visit the UK can I just get on the phone and if there's a flight available I can go and not be mug shot and finger printed to enter when a British friend cannot do the same? Makes no sense to me.

<I>Why for example if I suddenly decided at this moment that I wanted to visit the UK can I just get on the phone and if there's a flight available I can go and not be mug shot and finger printed to enter when a British friend cannot do the same?</I>

Who cares? It simply isn't the inconvenience you make it out to be. You make it seem like this is some sort of massive invasion of privacy when it is just the cost of travel. Heck, the trend toward biometric passports means that anywhere you scan the passport has your "mugshot", to use your gratuitously inflammatory term.

Again. Mountain. Molehill.

Just ask others how they feel about it. True many don't care. Many others feel humiliated by this exercise in futility!

<I>Just ask others how they feel about it.</I>

I've never heard a single one of my European colleagues complain. In my experience, this is an "issue" for self-conscious Americans and those Europeans that don't want to travel but feel the need to fabricate a reason.