university suggestions for study abroad semester
Sep 27th, 2008, 01:37 PM
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Ira,
After the surprised shock moment, I took the "don't fuss, wait it out" approach. He changed, changed again, and if he changes again I will not really be upset. I think a good thing about the postsecondary life is opportunity to explore choices.
Thanks for the suggestion of Manchester. Not that the school he attends has to have a handy, international airport, but it sure would help with travel.
Wow, and on its web site, I see Manchester offers a pick-up service to help the international students! This gets me smiling: "You will be expected to carry your own luggage, so please remember this when you are packing."
Thanks, all, I now have a nice pile of information to hand off. Of course I think it would be a great thing to do, but I will have to wait and see if the idea really takes hold and starts building excitement in him, too. Cheers!
After the surprised shock moment, I took the "don't fuss, wait it out" approach. He changed, changed again, and if he changes again I will not really be upset. I think a good thing about the postsecondary life is opportunity to explore choices.
Thanks for the suggestion of Manchester. Not that the school he attends has to have a handy, international airport, but it sure would help with travel.
Wow, and on its web site, I see Manchester offers a pick-up service to help the international students! This gets me smiling: "You will be expected to carry your own luggage, so please remember this when you are packing."
Thanks, all, I now have a nice pile of information to hand off. Of course I think it would be a great thing to do, but I will have to wait and see if the idea really takes hold and starts building excitement in him, too. Cheers!
Sep 27th, 2008, 01:54 PM
#22
Many study abroad programs are run by US universities and are comprised largely of US students. The experience is different than that of an individual student studying at a university abroad.
My daughter also was in the DIS program in Denmark mentioned by crefloors, although she was there for a summer rather than a semester. This consisted of US students from many different colleges being taught by Danish teachers but it was not connected to a Danish university.
The study abroad office at the student's US university will have lots of information about programs run through US and foreign universities. It is important to look at the entire program. If you are expecting the experience to be the same as it would be for a student from the country in which the program is located (which it sounds like you are expecting, and which many of the responses on this thread assume), you have to see whether the US students are taking classes with the local students or are in a program especially for them.
My daughter also was in the DIS program in Denmark mentioned by crefloors, although she was there for a summer rather than a semester. This consisted of US students from many different colleges being taught by Danish teachers but it was not connected to a Danish university.
The study abroad office at the student's US university will have lots of information about programs run through US and foreign universities. It is important to look at the entire program. If you are expecting the experience to be the same as it would be for a student from the country in which the program is located (which it sounds like you are expecting, and which many of the responses on this thread assume), you have to see whether the US students are taking classes with the local students or are in a program especially for them.
Sep 27th, 2008, 07:25 PM
#24
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would look at the following:
1) Is the program kosher with your son's school? Ask the foreign study office about credits and get all courses approved before deciding on where you will go. Most engineering programs offer very few electives and little extra time to make up credits, so he wants to make sure that his time abroad won't come back to haunt him his senior year, when he is stuck making up the courses
2) Will he be a regular student or part of a special program? The experience will be better if he will be in normal classes with other students, rather than some of the bogus classes offered exclusively for the study abroad students.
If he can sort through those questions, then it is a worthwhile experience.
I will say, however, that I am a bit concerned about the fact that (as best I can tell) it isn't your son that started the conversation, nor is it your son asking the questions. I'm all for taking an active interest in his education, but he really should make this decision on his own, because he will ultimately be responsible for getting something of value from it.
1) Is the program kosher with your son's school? Ask the foreign study office about credits and get all courses approved before deciding on where you will go. Most engineering programs offer very few electives and little extra time to make up credits, so he wants to make sure that his time abroad won't come back to haunt him his senior year, when he is stuck making up the courses
2) Will he be a regular student or part of a special program? The experience will be better if he will be in normal classes with other students, rather than some of the bogus classes offered exclusively for the study abroad students.
If he can sort through those questions, then it is a worthwhile experience.
I will say, however, that I am a bit concerned about the fact that (as best I can tell) it isn't your son that started the conversation, nor is it your son asking the questions. I'm all for taking an active interest in his education, but he really should make this decision on his own, because he will ultimately be responsible for getting something of value from it.
Sep 28th, 2008, 02:58 AM
#25
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And I guess Ira has asked what I tried to in a more understandable way. Is your son going aboard to get a different angle on his chosen specialisation or for the exerience of being "somewhere else"?
I'd have thought that you'd have to be fairly advanced in your studies in any scientfic discipline to find teaching that was any different from what you could get at home.
With the arts, languages and social sciences I'd find the point of it easier to grasp.
I'd have thought that you'd have to be fairly advanced in your studies in any scientfic discipline to find teaching that was any different from what you could get at home.
With the arts, languages and social sciences I'd find the point of it easier to grasp.
Sep 28th, 2008, 03:03 AM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PS - why not forgo the cost of this whole exercise and then, when he's finished his degree, he could take himself to Europe and do the young traveller thing.
If the point is to give him the opportunity to explore other countries and their ways of doing things that would be a much sounder proposition, don't you think.
Give him another couple of years to sort out what his real interests are, and then let him loose to explore them overseas.
If the point is to give him the opportunity to explore other countries and their ways of doing things that would be a much sounder proposition, don't you think.
Give him another couple of years to sort out what his real interests are, and then let him loose to explore them overseas.
Sep 28th, 2008, 03:05 AM
#27
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am an engineer and for a Mechie I thing Germany have some of the best engineering programs in Europe. My company has a lot of intercooperative agreementns with German ompanies and that could be a very good selling point on a resume.
Sep 28th, 2008, 03:38 AM
#28
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a former professor and college dean, I think study abroad should be mandatory. It will give your son a huge leg up in his profession if he can speak a foreign language and can understand cultural differences between the US and other countries.
Most engineering students have distribution requirements: courses outside the major required for graduation. He can concentrate on fulfilling these requirements with courses taken overseas, as opposed to focusing on engineering or education. He may even be able to take them pass-fail. But you are right to have him connect with his home university to see what they require.
Most engineering students have distribution requirements: courses outside the major required for graduation. He can concentrate on fulfilling these requirements with courses taken overseas, as opposed to focusing on engineering or education. He may even be able to take them pass-fail. But you are right to have him connect with his home university to see what they require.
Sep 28th, 2008, 05:08 AM
#29
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the first thing you need to sort out is the language question. I know Bad Honnef's courses are in English, for example, but I would be very surprised if Santiago de Compostela university has courses in English. Not even 100% sure they would all be in Spanish either: in Barcelona most courses are in Catalan in fact (possibly some in galego in Santiago).
As to UK, the 2 places I can comment on are Manchester and Lancaster (I've worked in both). Manchester has 2 huge universities and is in the middle of a conurbation of well over 3miliion people. Lancaster is a small town in beautiful countryside, and the university is on a campus outside town. Lancaster University is run on a collegiate system so more "pastoral care" of students than in big metropolitan universities.
I spent a "year abroad" in Germany, because I was studying German. Now I live in Spain (Lancaster and Manchester came between that!). The "year abroad" at age 20 was crucial in who I am today and I would also recommend it to everyone.
As to UK, the 2 places I can comment on are Manchester and Lancaster (I've worked in both). Manchester has 2 huge universities and is in the middle of a conurbation of well over 3miliion people. Lancaster is a small town in beautiful countryside, and the university is on a campus outside town. Lancaster University is run on a collegiate system so more "pastoral care" of students than in big metropolitan universities.
I spent a "year abroad" in Germany, because I was studying German. Now I live in Spain (Lancaster and Manchester came between that!). The "year abroad" at age 20 was crucial in who I am today and I would also recommend it to everyone.
Sep 28th, 2008, 08:00 AM
#30
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also attended the DIS program in Copenhagen, Denmark, and it is really a wonderful program. Most students live with Danish families, and get to experience European life as a true resident, not just an exchange student. The professors are all from the University of Copenhagen, but the classes are in English. I recommend the program highly.
Sep 28th, 2008, 10:02 AM
#31
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi AA,
>I'd have thought that you'd have to be fairly advanced in your studies in any scientfic discipline to find teaching that was any different from what you could get at home.<
Au contraire, mon ami.
Even in the sciences and engineering, the pedagogical approach is quite different between the US and European schools.
My favorite example, from a prof at Manchester.
US: Below, you are given the various physical and mechanical properties of a viscoelastic material.
Calculate the following: aaa, bbb, ccc....
UK: Polyurethane is a viscoelastic material. Discuss.
On the latter exam, the student is expected to describe viscoelasticity, explain how it differs from Newtonian elasticity, cite examples of the behavior with specific emphasis on the polyurethanes.
>I'd have thought that you'd have to be fairly advanced in your studies in any scientfic discipline to find teaching that was any different from what you could get at home.<
Au contraire, mon ami.
Even in the sciences and engineering, the pedagogical approach is quite different between the US and European schools.
My favorite example, from a prof at Manchester.
US: Below, you are given the various physical and mechanical properties of a viscoelastic material.
Calculate the following: aaa, bbb, ccc....
UK: Polyurethane is a viscoelastic material. Discuss.
On the latter exam, the student is expected to describe viscoelasticity, explain how it differs from Newtonian elasticity, cite examples of the behavior with specific emphasis on the polyurethanes.
Sep 28th, 2008, 11:16 PM
#33
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Giving some more thought to this, and going along with someone else's suggestion of Holland, or with Bad Honnef where courses are in English: if your son went there he would be living in a foreign non-English-speaking country but without language problems on his course. And in both Holland and western Germany he would be able to communicate in English when moving around, but would still have a different experience compared with the UK where he only has to adjust to the regional accents.
Sep 29th, 2008, 12:27 AM
#34
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i>compared with the UK where he only has to adjust to the regional accents.</i>
I think this underestimates how different the UK is than the US. The differences in educational philosophies are especially striking.
I think this underestimates how different the UK is than the US. The differences in educational philosophies are especially striking.
Sep 29th, 2008, 02:30 AM
#35
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ira - that is interesting.
Are you saying that that in the US a student can take what they know and make a "best guess", whereas in Europe they are expected to be able to explain their answers with reasoning?
And if true which do you think is the most valid approach?
Are you saying that that in the US a student can take what they know and make a "best guess", whereas in Europe they are expected to be able to explain their answers with reasoning?
And if true which do you think is the most valid approach?
Sep 29th, 2008, 02:51 AM
#36
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"in Europe they are expected to be able to explain their answers with reasoning?"
Ira was making no comparison between the US and "Europe". He's far too sensible to make such an absurd comparison - and too experienced an educator to think you can make any generalisation about a non-existent concept like "a European education philiosophy".
Knowing nothing about engineering, but having managed, worked with, and been bossed around by a fair few engineers from a score or so countries, I'd say the quirkiest educational philiosophy isn't America's (whose engineers are pretty well indistinguishable from those educated in Sweden, Germany or Australia when it comes to technical matters), but Britain's.
As for which works better: depends what end result you want.
Ira was making no comparison between the US and "Europe". He's far too sensible to make such an absurd comparison - and too experienced an educator to think you can make any generalisation about a non-existent concept like "a European education philiosophy".
Knowing nothing about engineering, but having managed, worked with, and been bossed around by a fair few engineers from a score or so countries, I'd say the quirkiest educational philiosophy isn't America's (whose engineers are pretty well indistinguishable from those educated in Sweden, Germany or Australia when it comes to technical matters), but Britain's.
As for which works better: depends what end result you want.
Sep 29th, 2008, 04:39 AM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Logos. The "Fachhochschule" in Germany, or as they like to style themselves now, "university of applied sciences" are one or two rungs lower from classical universities in terms of quality. What is usually better at an FH is the style of teaching - smaller groups, more "hand-holding" than at the classical unversities where the students are expected to find their own way.
If your DS wants to study engineering at an university in Germany I would suggest RWTH Aachen, TU Munich, Uni Karlsruhe or Uni Bochum.
If your DS wants to study engineering at an university in Germany I would suggest RWTH Aachen, TU Munich, Uni Karlsruhe or Uni Bochum.
Sep 29th, 2008, 05:06 AM
#39
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if this is what Ira was referring to, but again, with my daughter's experience in Stasbroug this year - the final exam was VERY different from school here.
In several of her physics classes she met with the professor and answered his questions, explained concepts during an oral exam. I'm not sure there was a written part at all but it very much was a "discuss these aspects of physics" type of exam. She and the other students would do problems on their own to see if they were indeed understanding the concepts, but the exam was not a "compute the answer" type exam. And this was her entire grade in the class - no prior tests to see if she was getting it. As I said before, it was quite difficult, partly because she did have to explain things in French, partly because it is just a different style than what she was used to as an undergraduate student here.
In several of her physics classes she met with the professor and answered his questions, explained concepts during an oral exam. I'm not sure there was a written part at all but it very much was a "discuss these aspects of physics" type of exam. She and the other students would do problems on their own to see if they were indeed understanding the concepts, but the exam was not a "compute the answer" type exam. And this was her entire grade in the class - no prior tests to see if she was getting it. As I said before, it was quite difficult, partly because she did have to explain things in French, partly because it is just a different style than what she was used to as an undergraduate student here.
Sep 29th, 2008, 06:02 AM
#40
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an engineer doing "real-life" applications, I can assure you the US test example IRA provided is definitely a much better, real, practical approach to engineering than the UK test example and this is why: in REAL LIFE nobody is expected to explain concepts on a design engineering meeting; you are expected to APPLY them. I have never been on a meeting where somebody was rated by how well they explained yield strength, but been to many meetings where people where rated by how well they applied the calculated material's yield strength. You are expected to know HOW TO ENGINEER using that knowledge. Otherwise, it is just an exercise in science knowledge and academia, which is the what the UK test example really is....I had those type tests in High School.
There is however, an observation IRA made where he is right on; Mech Engr is not for the faint of heart; you are either wired to do it or you are not. By the way, I have a Minor in Industrial Psychology, so go figure.... My strong advice to stick with it if it is something he likes; engineering is an absolutely amazing field!
There is however, an observation IRA made where he is right on; Mech Engr is not for the faint of heart; you are either wired to do it or you are not. By the way, I have a Minor in Industrial Psychology, so go figure.... My strong advice to stick with it if it is something he likes; engineering is an absolutely amazing field!
