United Kingdom vs. Ireland
Apr 1st, 2013, 06:41 PM
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United Kingdom vs. Ireland
I'm going on a trip in the summer with my dad for around ten days and we have not decided yet whether we want to go to the United Kingdom or Ireland. I was hoping someone could give advice on which would be best for what we are looking for. If we went to the UK we would spend the majority of our time around London, probably spending a day in both Brighton and Dover, make a trip to see Oxford University and then spend two or three days in Wales. If we went to Ireland we would spend a couple days in Dublin and then rent a car for the rest of the trip and have a road trip of sorts around a large portion of the island. We are hoping to see a lot of architecture, beautiful landscape, classic tourist attractions, and small, quaint towns. We also would like to shop, walk around, and go hiking. The most important thing to me is to be submersed into a new culture, meet new people, make new experiences and I want to try to fit into the culture and not be too "touristy". For more reference, I am 17 and my dad is 50, though he is very active and can handle hiking and a lot of physical activity. My dad lived in the UK for around ten years and has been to Ireland only once before. Thank you to anyone willing to help or give advice on this decision.
Apr 1st, 2013, 08:12 PM
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It is difficult to give advice on which area is "best" for you. Only you and your dad can decide that. However, if you are looking for cultural differences (from that in the US?), you might find more differences in Ireland -- away from the larger cities -- than in England. Both have beautiful scenery and small, quaint towns. England probably wins on architecture, especially that in London. Ireland wins on traditional music and a more rural landscape. I suggest you go to your library or to a good book store and browse some travel books on both destinations. As for being "touristy" --well, you will be a tourist, probably carrying a map and a camera and that's ok. Wear whatever you wear at home but nothing outlandish. Nice jeans are everywhere. Just don't be loud, obnoxious, demanding, etc., and you'll fit right in.
Apr 1st, 2013, 10:46 PM
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The Republic of Ireland is exceptionally poorly endowed with:
- Architecture. While civilised Europe has spent most of the past century conserving its good buildings and adding more, the Republic has sat back and watched its businesses and people tear down huge proportions of its architectural heritage and despoil its occasionally pleasant countryside with visual pollution. Unless you share the country's fetish for immense 19th century churches.
- "Small quaint towns". The despoliation of Ireland's architectural heritage (a history of destruction that's rare in those Irish counties where the people have retained membership of the UK, but universal in those ruled by Dublin gombeen men) is as common in smaller towns as everywhere else in the Republic.
"go hiking". Most of rural Ireland - even those counties fortunate enough to remain part of the UK - locks its countryside away behind barbed wire fences and gates. Fortunately, Irish farmers are rarely diligent enough to maintain these barriers, and local booklets usually show you ways across fields but proper walking is practically impossible in the Republic (unless you love walking along tarmac roads), except for a tiny handful of paths along stunning clifftops. Proper footpaths are now beginning to be carved out of the UK counties of Ireland - but even there the walking opportunities are virtually negligible compared to the hundreds of thousands of miles of open paths in England and Wales and close on the entire countryside of Scotland.
"beautiful landscape". Ireland (both the UK part and the Republic) has some beautiful landscape, especially along the coast. The Republic's skill in making both its internal and its seaside landscapes hideously strewn with repulsive new bungalows and caravan parks is impressive for its almost Chinese dedication to creating a visual wilderness (something the counties that send their legislators to London make damn sure won't happen to their landcscape). Even the Republic's grubby politicians haven't yet completely ruined their country's coastline. But they're still trying, and there's a real case for coming and seeing it before they succeed.
Don't get me wrong. Dublin, though in most ways a boring dump, still has almost as much great English architecture as, say, Liverpool, and isn't dramatically more congested or expensive, and not much more poorly endowed with good theatres, museums or art galleries. The Republic has by far the best pubs in the British Isles and it's possible (especially if you avoid Dublin as much as possible) to have a pleasant short holiday in the country.
I frequently do. But that's because I have no expectations of seeing architecture, well-maintained countryside, beautiful landscapes, attractive small towns (One of the many things that unites the people of the British Isles is getting pissed off at having their town or house dismissed as "quaint") or doing any serious country walking. There's more of that within 20 miles of my English house than in the whole of the Irish Republic.
- Architecture. While civilised Europe has spent most of the past century conserving its good buildings and adding more, the Republic has sat back and watched its businesses and people tear down huge proportions of its architectural heritage and despoil its occasionally pleasant countryside with visual pollution. Unless you share the country's fetish for immense 19th century churches.
- "Small quaint towns". The despoliation of Ireland's architectural heritage (a history of destruction that's rare in those Irish counties where the people have retained membership of the UK, but universal in those ruled by Dublin gombeen men) is as common in smaller towns as everywhere else in the Republic.
"go hiking". Most of rural Ireland - even those counties fortunate enough to remain part of the UK - locks its countryside away behind barbed wire fences and gates. Fortunately, Irish farmers are rarely diligent enough to maintain these barriers, and local booklets usually show you ways across fields but proper walking is practically impossible in the Republic (unless you love walking along tarmac roads), except for a tiny handful of paths along stunning clifftops. Proper footpaths are now beginning to be carved out of the UK counties of Ireland - but even there the walking opportunities are virtually negligible compared to the hundreds of thousands of miles of open paths in England and Wales and close on the entire countryside of Scotland.
"beautiful landscape". Ireland (both the UK part and the Republic) has some beautiful landscape, especially along the coast. The Republic's skill in making both its internal and its seaside landscapes hideously strewn with repulsive new bungalows and caravan parks is impressive for its almost Chinese dedication to creating a visual wilderness (something the counties that send their legislators to London make damn sure won't happen to their landcscape). Even the Republic's grubby politicians haven't yet completely ruined their country's coastline. But they're still trying, and there's a real case for coming and seeing it before they succeed.
Don't get me wrong. Dublin, though in most ways a boring dump, still has almost as much great English architecture as, say, Liverpool, and isn't dramatically more congested or expensive, and not much more poorly endowed with good theatres, museums or art galleries. The Republic has by far the best pubs in the British Isles and it's possible (especially if you avoid Dublin as much as possible) to have a pleasant short holiday in the country.
I frequently do. But that's because I have no expectations of seeing architecture, well-maintained countryside, beautiful landscapes, attractive small towns (One of the many things that unites the people of the British Isles is getting pissed off at having their town or house dismissed as "quaint") or doing any serious country walking. There's more of that within 20 miles of my English house than in the whole of the Irish Republic.
Apr 2nd, 2013, 02:06 AM
#4
My thoughts is that if Dad has had 10 years in the UK was it in London? If so, the poor old chap could do with a break. The buildings outside London can be very interesting as is the walking. The idea of coming all the way to the UK and visiting " Brighton and Dover" is frankly a bit depressing. Dover is what we call a dump, and while there is the odd castle there frankly there are better.
My advice is find out where Dad has not been and then go there, Scotland, Northern England are spectacular in the summer. Like Flanner if you want the best pub culture then Ireland is the place to go.
My advice is find out where Dad has not been and then go there, Scotland, Northern England are spectacular in the summer. Like Flanner if you want the best pub culture then Ireland is the place to go.
Apr 2nd, 2013, 03:54 AM
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Beccafund,
Ignore the inflammatory comments on Ireland above which have little to do with a serious desire to answer your question and more to do with some ongoing flaming on this board, enough said.
Dublin is an attractive small city and a nice place to visit if you're interested in Georgian architecture much of which is preserved. I don't know where you're visiting from but many people, and particularly Americans find the receive a warm welcome in Ireland. I know people enjoy the coast line and the walking down in Kerry but remember the weather in both the UK and Ireland is often wet even in the summer. I'd suggest searching for trip reports here on the board. If walking is your major interest there are innumerable lovely walks in Yorkshire, Wales, the Lakes and the Cotswolds in the UK and it's true that the entire country has incredible accessible walking routes.
I'd suggest having a look at your flight options as many flights to Dublin can route through London so you could do a few days in London on the way there or back if you decide to lean towards ireland. However, I think it depends partially on whether you want to spend time looking at the larger museums (National Gallery, British Museum, Tate etc) which cannot be equaled in Dublin. London is obviously a far larger city with a more diverse architectural heritage. You could arrive into London, spend three nights there and then rent a car for a week to get out of the city. Have a look at the National Trust website for ideas of stately homes and gardens to visit if that appeals, there are a LOT of options.
I'd think about heading out towards Somerset (perhaps Bath) then up into the Costwolds
We loved the house at Dyram, the gardens at Hidcote and the eccentricity of Snowshill, but you can find places like this all over the UK on the National Trust (NT) website.
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/dyrham-park/
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/hidcote/
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/snowshill-manor/
You can get a NT membership in the US that is cheaper than in the UK. If you stayed in farm B&Bs you could combine the touring by car with some local walking.
I agree with Bilbo Brighton and Dover would not be my first choices outside London...is there some reason for these choices, are these places your father wants to revisit?
Good Luck, it sounds like a lovely trip either way.
Ignore the inflammatory comments on Ireland above which have little to do with a serious desire to answer your question and more to do with some ongoing flaming on this board, enough said.
Dublin is an attractive small city and a nice place to visit if you're interested in Georgian architecture much of which is preserved. I don't know where you're visiting from but many people, and particularly Americans find the receive a warm welcome in Ireland. I know people enjoy the coast line and the walking down in Kerry but remember the weather in both the UK and Ireland is often wet even in the summer. I'd suggest searching for trip reports here on the board. If walking is your major interest there are innumerable lovely walks in Yorkshire, Wales, the Lakes and the Cotswolds in the UK and it's true that the entire country has incredible accessible walking routes.
I'd suggest having a look at your flight options as many flights to Dublin can route through London so you could do a few days in London on the way there or back if you decide to lean towards ireland. However, I think it depends partially on whether you want to spend time looking at the larger museums (National Gallery, British Museum, Tate etc) which cannot be equaled in Dublin. London is obviously a far larger city with a more diverse architectural heritage. You could arrive into London, spend three nights there and then rent a car for a week to get out of the city. Have a look at the National Trust website for ideas of stately homes and gardens to visit if that appeals, there are a LOT of options.
I'd think about heading out towards Somerset (perhaps Bath) then up into the Costwolds
We loved the house at Dyram, the gardens at Hidcote and the eccentricity of Snowshill, but you can find places like this all over the UK on the National Trust (NT) website.
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/dyrham-park/
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/hidcote/
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/snowshill-manor/
You can get a NT membership in the US that is cheaper than in the UK. If you stayed in farm B&Bs you could combine the touring by car with some local walking.
I agree with Bilbo Brighton and Dover would not be my first choices outside London...is there some reason for these choices, are these places your father wants to revisit?
Good Luck, it sounds like a lovely trip either way.
Apr 2nd, 2013, 07:27 AM
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I agree with Bilbo - Scotland would fit your stated desires perfectly.
Edinburgh > Dublin and it's not close.
As for this: <<I want to try to fit into the culture and not be too "touristy">>
Good luck. You don't speak the accent and the fact is that if you're going to tourist sites as a visitor, then you are a tourist. And the Brits can usually spot Americans with ease. Embrace it - we're fruit of the same philosophical tree.
Edinburgh > Dublin and it's not close.
As for this: <<I want to try to fit into the culture and not be too "touristy">>
Good luck. You don't speak the accent and the fact is that if you're going to tourist sites as a visitor, then you are a tourist. And the Brits can usually spot Americans with ease. Embrace it - we're fruit of the same philosophical tree.
Apr 3rd, 2013, 04:15 PM
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As you may have gathered from answer no 2 Brits do occasionally talk a load of BS. As a UK passport holder I am permuted to apologise for the Bigotry of some ill informed souls.
There is Dublin and then there is the rest of the Island of Ireland. It takes 14 days to navigate around 75% of the coast of the Island and might be a more rewarding use of your time.
There is Dublin and then there is the rest of the Island of Ireland. It takes 14 days to navigate around 75% of the coast of the Island and might be a more rewarding use of your time.
Apr 4th, 2013, 06:04 AM
#11
leaving Dublin out of it, [i've never been there] a lot of fabulous [and not so fabulous] Irish countryside is besmirched with ugly bungalows and i too have struggled to locate footpaths in just the way he describes.
Flanner's is a legitimate view, even if you don't like the way it's expressed.
Free Speech and all that?
Flanner's is a legitimate view, even if you don't like the way it's expressed.
Free Speech and all that?
Apr 4th, 2013, 06:47 AM
#13
Now the OP has gone where?
Oliver Wendell Holmes must be spinning in his grave if you guys confuse tongue in cheek, and story laid facts with abuse. The test surely has to be is he right about his facts.
Bungalow blight is feature of the Emerald Isle, while comparing the city of Dublin to that of Liverpool makes complete sense based on the similar building periods and the right to walk (1932 Kinder Scout mass trespass) in the UK post-dates the separation of the Irish Republic from the UK (1919-1922 depending on what you use as the critical date)? and I could go on.
Now do you reckon the OP has had any help here?
Oliver Wendell Holmes must be spinning in his grave if you guys confuse tongue in cheek, and story laid facts with abuse. The test surely has to be is he right about his facts.
Bungalow blight is feature of the Emerald Isle, while comparing the city of Dublin to that of Liverpool makes complete sense based on the similar building periods and the right to walk (1932 Kinder Scout mass trespass) in the UK post-dates the separation of the Irish Republic from the UK (1919-1922 depending on what you use as the critical date)? and I could go on.
Now do you reckon the OP has had any help here?
Apr 5th, 2013, 05:24 AM
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>>Flanner's is a legitimate view, even if you don't like the way it's expressed.
Free Speech and all that?<<
A legitimate view, certainly, just obnoxiously put and designed to get people's backs up, which only helps diminish any decent advice that might be buried beneath the self-satisfaction.
Free Speech and all that?<<
A legitimate view, certainly, just obnoxiously put and designed to get people's backs up, which only helps diminish any decent advice that might be buried beneath the self-satisfaction.
Apr 5th, 2013, 05:49 AM
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I don't get the fascination with Dover. Why is it figuring in so many itineraries at the moment? The castle is reasonably interesting, though not particularly picturesque imho, and the cliffs are best seen from the sea. Round the corner a bit St Margarets and the NT gardens are pretty.....but so many people on shortish visits seem to be plumping for this over potentially much more interesting day trips (Oxford/Cambridge/north Essex and Suffolk villages/Brighton/Bodiam/Rye/any number of stately homes or gardens). Why?
Apr 5th, 2013, 08:11 AM
#16
azzure: >>Flagged #2 for being abusive, nationalistic drivel.<<
Don't be silly. An opinion that is very well explained is not flag-worthy. You may not agree w/ the content but not a single word was abusive (abusing who may I ask???). You want every post to be homogenized, boring pap? The gist of flanner's post is accurate IME - Ireland has fewer public foot paths/access, much more rural 'bungalow blight', better pubs, not all that much 'architecture' of note.
>>I don't get the fascination with Dover. <<
Dover the city is a dump and not 'visit-worthy'. But Dover Castle is magnificent and one of the most interesting anywhere. Everything from a Roman lighthouse to WWII tunnels/hospital and everything in between. Then there are Deal and Walmer castles practically w/i walking distance.
Don't be silly. An opinion that is very well explained is not flag-worthy. You may not agree w/ the content but not a single word was abusive (abusing who may I ask???). You want every post to be homogenized, boring pap? The gist of flanner's post is accurate IME - Ireland has fewer public foot paths/access, much more rural 'bungalow blight', better pubs, not all that much 'architecture' of note.
>>I don't get the fascination with Dover. <<
Dover the city is a dump and not 'visit-worthy'. But Dover Castle is magnificent and one of the most interesting anywhere. Everything from a Roman lighthouse to WWII tunnels/hospital and everything in between. Then there are Deal and Walmer castles practically w/i walking distance.
Apr 5th, 2013, 11:03 AM
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I agree. The Dover thing.... it's just like ALL those itineraries we see for people going to Soctland wanting to visit Inverness and Fort William ( 
). My theory is that these are the only places people from the other side of the world have heard of (because they are shown on their maps), so in the absence of doing any research they just reckon these are the places they should visit.
). My theory is that these are the only places people from the other side of the world have heard of (because they are shown on their maps), so in the absence of doing any research they just reckon these are the places they should visit.
Apr 5th, 2013, 12:03 PM
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I find the post irritating, not all UK Irish wear an Orange shirt in such blatant view..
There is a line in the Constitution which states that any man may walk any made Path so no need to go tramping across farmland which was fenced since Foot and Mouth was spread about the place by inconsiderate "ramblers" Anyone wanting information on walks in Clare, Galway and other counties feel free to ask.
Architecture pre Georgian and Victorian was destroyed to Build Dublin in London fashion, we still have a huge number of pre Cromwell structures, Abbeys, Castles, Round towers some pretty special Cathedrals.
Yes the British and other European hoards have thrown up kit build holiday homes everywhere but if you want caravan parks go to North Wales,
If yr man hates the place so much then why's he come on Holiday? I dont like Dingle (new tourist central Dingle) so I don't go there any more.. simple.
The Island of Ireland has a lot to offer well away from the main tour bus tourists. Places like here in East Clare/Galway by Lough Derg we get very few Visitors aside from The outdoors types. And yes we have pretty looking villages some Thatched roof cottages and all the things that visitors might want from non Disney Ireland. our leprechauns still wear red not green.
There is a line in the Constitution which states that any man may walk any made Path so no need to go tramping across farmland which was fenced since Foot and Mouth was spread about the place by inconsiderate "ramblers" Anyone wanting information on walks in Clare, Galway and other counties feel free to ask.
Architecture pre Georgian and Victorian was destroyed to Build Dublin in London fashion, we still have a huge number of pre Cromwell structures, Abbeys, Castles, Round towers some pretty special Cathedrals.
Yes the British and other European hoards have thrown up kit build holiday homes everywhere but if you want caravan parks go to North Wales,
If yr man hates the place so much then why's he come on Holiday? I dont like Dingle (new tourist central Dingle) so I don't go there any more.. simple.
The Island of Ireland has a lot to offer well away from the main tour bus tourists. Places like here in East Clare/Galway by Lough Derg we get very few Visitors aside from The outdoors types. And yes we have pretty looking villages some Thatched roof cottages and all the things that visitors might want from non Disney Ireland. our leprechauns still wear red not green.
Apr 14th, 2013, 03:48 PM
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+1 on flanneruk's opinion. Ireland is fairly boring. He is being attacked because he isn't some polyanna who thinks that everything is wonderful. The groupthink on boards like this is never ceases to amaze.
Apr 14th, 2013, 09:31 PM
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Do you enjoy history? I was very fascinated by my first trip to Ireland, especially Dublin, to see the general post office where the Easter Rebellion of 1915 occurred (you can still see the bullet holes) and hear a little about how the British retaliatin to this (the rebels had little support when they were captured but then the British using the declaration of martial law as a pretext went about without fair trials or anything executing the rebel leaders by firing squad. It helps give you some understanding of the hatred some of the Irish have for the British (who we would like to picture as peace loving minded people) and while not saying right or wrong it is fascinating to see some of these actual places (and also to talk to some of the people in a place like (London)derry who are sick and tired of the nonsense being perpetrated on them by both sides of the "troubles". To me, that's what made a visit to Ireland so interesting.
(I might say the same thing too about Scotland).
(I might say the same thing too about Scotland).
