US unemployment benefits are predicated upon: 1)actively seeking work, 2)being available to work, and 3)in Michigan, at least, registering each week by telephone one's availability. How will you do that in/from Paris?

Perhaps if the original poster used as much energy looking for a job as he does trying to get free admission, he would not be unemployed.

You all need to ease up on your bashing of the OP, please. I have also taken friends abroad, and I have been taken abroad when I was a grad student and technically unemployed. The OP is not asking you for donations to subsidize his trip, is not asking for anything but information, which s/he is more than entititled to.

Ironically, the times my boyfriend can most readily go on vacation are usually when he's between jobs -- it's too hard to get a week off in the middle of projects.

Many museums are free the first sunday of the month in Paris. If the OP is there at that time they could take advantage of that. The city of Paris museums are mostly or all free.

A few previous posters have stated that senior citizens are not entitled to the discount admission in Paris museums.

On the Frommer's site is this statement:

"In most cities, people over the age of 60 qualify for reduced admission to theaters, museums, and other attractions, as well as discounted fares on public transportation"

From the France Tourism site:

http://www.francetourism.com/practicalinfo/seniors.htm
"Some museums and monuments allow a reduced entrance fee for persons over 60 years old. An ID such as a passport or other may be required as a proof of your date of birth."

While some museums may not give a senior discount to non-EU visitors, there is no reason not to ask for the concession. While it isn't a museum, the Bateaus-Mouches has always given my wife and I the senior fare.

There is no need of certain remarks not answering the question of Inicodemus.

There is something a free admission to

- Le Louvre:

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/pratique/tarifs.jsp?tarif=1

- Musee d´Orsay

http://www.musee-orsay.fr/ORSAY/orsa...s?OpenDocument


To be sure you might them ask them by e-mail.

I think the idea of French museums allowing free entry to unemployed and various other categories is just a social service, along with the other things they get, such as reduced metro fare, etc. However, you do need an official French card on that, so I don't know why they would allow unemployed US citizens free entry in that case. Of course, there are many museums that have free entry, anyway.

Last I heard the Met musem in NY didn't "belong to all of us". Since when, it isn't supported by Federal income taxes, nor does it belong to the Federal govt. It does get some operating funds and support from the City of NY, but that is only a minority of its expenses. It depends on admission fees, grants and lots of donations. It does not "belong to everyone" in the US.

Nationals of some countries get senior, unemployed discounts, etc. - not just EU at times but the fine print i've read on museums said that since the US hasn't entered into these international agreements only certain nationalities are entitled to say senior admission. But rules vary - but i'd say that you will be unceremoniously turned away, documentation or not - though some could care less clerks may let it pass. Again like one above said unemployed do not have money to travel to Europe so the clerk wouldn't buy it.

I think the European model is that most museums are owned by the government, so they accord certain privileges to their citizens. Of course, since the EU came into being, they must treat all EU citizens as they treat their own. Many of the museums do have free days, and I suspect they don't check for citizenship before allowing you in because they would have to check everyone, which would be somewhat costly.

The American model, by contrast, is that most museums are not owned by the government, but are set up as educational and charitible foundations. So the American people have no right, title, or interest in the art displayed in these museums. I am most familiar with the Cleveland Museum of Art. It was built by a small number of philanthropists on land donated by one of them, and allows free admission only because over the years the people around here have donated enough money that the museum has a healthy endowment.

I can think offhand of only a very small number of government owned museums in the US, such as the Smithsonian and some military museums.

Incidentally, in the US, you are unemployed only if you are not employed but are actively seeking work. When you stop looking for work, they drop you from the rolls of the unemployed. So there are a large number of people, including retirees, students, grad students, invalids, stay-at-home parents, the intentionally idle, and those who have given up on finding work, who while not employed, are not, technically, unemployed. Thats something to think about when they report the unemployment rate is x%.

Sue xxx,
Sorry, but I don't quite get your point..maybe too much coffee this morning :)

Christina,
<It depends on admission fees, grants and lots of donations. It does not "belong to everyone" in the US>
You live in the US? I always thought you lived in Europe..anyway- The idea of the Metropolitan Museum belonging to all of us, comes from just that idea- that it depends on us for being able to keep running. That we all should pay something, even if we are poor students, seniors on a fixed income or those who can well afford to pay the full admission.
I never think of the Tate in London as belonging to me but I am grateful that I can pay the admission and get to see those paintings! and I would imagine, the people in London are happy that visitors pay for them too. I feel the same way about the Met .. whatever you can afford is acceptable, therefore no one is turned away.

Why don't we take up a collection and pay Inicodemus' way in?

do US museums get tax breaks? i suspect yes, a lot of them. for starters, most are in buildings worth millions displaying artwork that is also worth millions (property tax?).

do do they get licencing fees for their intellectual property? do they sell food or have a gift shop that makes money? do they pay tax on all of this or are they allowed tax exempt treatment by the government.

they are supported by the government/people. anyone here who speaks of them as if they are private enterprises is mistaken.

Do museums get tax breaks?

Yes, but so do plenty of private for-profit enterprises--farming, energy firms, family businesses, businesses in so-called "enterprise zones," to mention only a few.

Most museums are private nonprofit entitities. Nonprofit means just that: there are no owners or shareholders making a profit, and that all revenues, after expenses, get plowed back into their own activities, which must meet IRS standards (e.g., education, cultural activities, public welfare, etc.). It does not mean that they are owned by the public, and it certainly doesn't mean that they magically run without a need for cash.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people who are willing to spend 10$ for any old movie balk at spending a roughly equal amount to view invaluable historic, scientific, or cultural objects and to support an institution that preserves, presents, researches, and teaches about them.

>>>>>
It never ceases to amaze me how some people who are willing to spend 10$ for any old movie balk at spending a roughly equal amount to view invaluable historic, scientific, or cultural objects and to support an institution that preserves, presents, researches, and teaches about them.
>>>>>

did i balk?
i have no problem paying admissions nor do i have a problem if american museums get tax breaks. nor do i have a problem that may UK tax money goes to support our museums. i prefer to pay higher taxes to have arts supported.

its just that some posts were trying to say that american museums are not supported by the government and this is false. as you say, KT, they must conform to certain standards and offer certain benefits to the community at large in order to get tax breaks. these benefits are, of course, debatable but my opinion is that this should include making the museum accessable to everyone regardless of means to pay. this would mean that, if admission is charged (i have no opposition to this) then concessions should be made for those who cannot pay (job seekers, perhaps pensioners, etc, etc).

i do not think it is interesting to debate who should not pay or what is fair. but the principle of making access available to those with a lesser ability to pay should be supported if it is receiving tax breaks.

Thank you all for your responses. I did think when I posted that there might be some questions about the unemployment and travel. Frequent flyer miles, an apartment swap, and a friend willing to help pay for meals has made it an opportunity I could not miss. In my state (I hope) one can state that one is not looking for employment for a certain period of time and go off for that period. I was just trying to clarify what I read (which if so, would have saved me a small bit).
Anyway, I do thank all of you who have been so kind as to offer suggestions. If I find out anything definitive, I will post. I am really looking forward to my first trip to Paris is April!

Walking around:

You started by asserting that you don't know anything about whether US museums get tax breaks; you then proceeded to assume that they do; you then stumble to the conclusion that private entities are government funded and should grant free, or at least reduced admissions to those with less income (apparently also concluding that the pensioned have inadequate resources when in fact that segment of our society is better off financially than they have ever been, and certainly better off than the young who are supporting them). Are you saying that any entity that receives tax breaks should have to give a discount to the poor? Virtually all manufacturers get some sort of tax break. Its hard to think of a residential development that doesn't receive some sort of tax break. We entice stores to move to our communities by offering tax breaks. I get tax breaks; do I have to take in a homeless person? Perhaps if I buy another car I can demand a discount because I am retired!



I think there is a major difference between the way Europeans and Americans view some things. Europeans seem satisfied to give most of their money to their governments, which in turn do charitable works, control the museums, and often control health care. Americans often prefer to keep control of these activities in our own hands. The last person on earth I want involved in deciding how our museum should operate is my idiot congressman. This always crops up when Europeans decry the small amount of overseas charitable funding provided by the US government, ignoring the far larger amounts provided by the American people.

The fact remains that virtually all American Museums are privately controlled, and the citizenry has no ownership interest in the works of art therein. Our government does not have the capability shown in past years by the Soviet government to control artistic expression.

Scarlett

You stated: "Sure, as visitors from another country, I think we should pay [for museums], but in our own [country], doesn't it [art museums] belong to all of us?" I took this to mean that you felt you had already 'paid' for museums believed to be public assets in your own country. In your second post, you suggest a different way of interpreting your words that I confess eluded me.

So what differs is whether my point is congruent with whichever one you yourself intended. It now seems we agree that even if the capital investment in art in a given museum is owned by the public, the extensive operating costs of the museum still must be covered. In particular, capital investment is never really permanent - things will depreciate (including artwork) if they aren't maintained. Not to mention what a former university president here once lamented - it isn't hard to find donors willing to donate artwork, or something similarly glamourous, but it's much harder to find someone willing to underwrite the unromantic but very necessary cost of fixing the leaky rooves/roofs of the buildings....

Hence the need for museums to raise money by charging admission, or at least by requesting a donation, even of those people who supposedly are the 'owners' of the artwork.

There is another good reason to charge admission, especially the 'pay-what-you-can' donation model. Paying something, howsoever small, is a very good index of people's interest in an institution. It's a kind of vote, I think, and also helps people feel that they have an investment in the enterprise. People tend to care more about that in which they have a personal investment.

Hope that coffee was at least a good capuccino. :)

And inicodemus, I have to say I found the subsequent responses to your question very interesting, even if they weren't entirely addressing your original concern. For that I am grateful to you. Ta for now,

Sue xxx.
<I took this to mean that you felt you had already 'paid' for museums believed to be public assets in your own country. >

Absolutely not.

And I also agree that when somthing is free, one can tend to take it for granted and not appreciate it quite as much.

I feel strongly about some things :) besides handbags and really good shoes..I love going to the theatre in London or the Opera House in Paris and seeing a couple of kids, backpack kind of kids, dressed as well as they can be ( maybe just in jeans and a clean sweater) but they spent a lot of money to go to hear or see great music/theatre..I don't care if they did not dress up or if they had to check the backpack at the coatroom, that they spent that much money to be there makes me happy.
I hate it when people look down their nose at others because of the way they are dressed at certain events..they are there, that is what is important.
so waaay off topic here, I will say goodnight :)

This is the first I have heard that senior discounts in Paris / EU are not available to US citizens. When my sainted mother traveled with me in the late 90's, we routinely got any available senior discount for her with no fanfare. Is this something new, or were we perhaps just beneficiaries of a string of ticket agents in a good mood?

Seamus:

No-one in this thread has the foggiest idea whether free entry is available to Americans or not.

Inicodemus asked whether it is. I told him the number to ring to check. About two dozen people have told us why they THINK it's not.

No-one (including inicodemus) has bothered asking the Louvre, or recounting real experience.

Blathering, after all, is easier than making a 30 second phone call.