UK or France or elsewhere, July 2018, good price from west coast?
 

For those of you who have travelled during summer, what would you consider a good roundtrip price for west coast to London or Paris? Or is there another European hub that would be inexpensive?

I want to fly out of SEA, but I would be willing to do LAX, Oakland, or SFO if it saved me money. I could fly out of NYC too- I have JetBlue credit that I could use to get there. I had planned to use it this winter, but if the price is right for a Europe summer trip, I can put it towards that.

Right now, Norwegian has some one way tickets for $199, but the return of course is much more expensive- roundtrip is 700. My trouble is that I'm not sure what a good price for July would be, or how far in advance I should look. Most calendars don't seem to go into July quite yet. Buy now or later?

I am not set on destination quite yet. I can't decide if I'd like to see more of France or the UK, or something entirely different, like Prague or Croatia. I know I don't want anywhere really hot, and right now I'm not excited about heavy crowds, so I think that might cross out Italy or Spain. I'm considering focusing on just one region/country because it may need to be 2-3 weeks at most.

So...off the wall suggestions are entirely welcome. Or feel free to pimp your favorite summer TR- I'm currently working my way through those! Food, history, archaeology, architecture, and the outdoors are some of my favorite things. I love museums, but I found last trip that I enjoy wandering through old towns and in and out of churches even more. Nothing involving a rental car- transit access is a must!

(In case you didn't follow my trip last winter, I have been to London, Paris, various cities in Germany, Florence, Venice, Rome- so I'm aware of travel basics. This is specifically more for July and other locations, and in hopes of getting more off the beaten path).

Austrian and Italian Tyrol to Trieste and Ljubljana all easy by train from Trieste except for Ljubljana that connects through Venice.

Don't know what west coast flights would be. Until this year's cheaper fares I usually paid for a three month's stay, around $1200 for a non-stop round trip economy from Miami. But I'm not shopping for price just non-stop flights.

Oops . . .forgot to mention my flight destination . . .Paris from Miami

I was wondering if this year had been cheaper. I think $1200 was the average price from west coast, but I wasn't seriously hunting for summer. Who do you fly with from Florida?

From Florida always a non-stop to Paris with Air France. My other possible is American but after a couple of bad experiences with them, I'll stick with Air France. Air France flights this year are almost half of what they were before the cuts.

Quite a difference, then. That's crazy.

I think someone would have to pay me to fly with AA at this point. Every time I think they can't get worse, they do. It's impressive. How do you like Air France?

It certainly is too early to be looking for airfares. Not only do most airlines open their booking windows 11 or 12 months out max, but the arcane method the airlines use in setting fares often results in higher prices right when the booking window opens. Often these prices fall for a time before turning around and climbing as the flight date approaches. I honestly wouldn't be shopping for flights until the first of the year; don't worry, they're not going to sell out.

Midsummer is usually the most expensive period for transatlantic travel in economy; ironically it's usually the cheapest time for business class, as demand for those seats fall as actual "business" travel slows down.

The other thing I'd suggest - quite strongly, in fact - is to look at departures out of Vancouver. Quite often fares from YVR (after you do the currency conversion math) are cheaper than out of Seattle; the leisure travel market there is different.

Go to http://matrix.itasoftware.com and <i>learn to use it.</i> This is the "gold standard" in airfare search tools; you can do multi-carrier, multi-destination, and month-long searches; for example you could ask ITA to find fares from either Seattle or Vancouver to either London or Paris (or Amsterdam and Frankfurt, Zurich and Istanbul etc.) throughout the month of July.

As far as where's cheapest, it's a moving target. London is usually the cheapest because it has the most traffic; however the UK imposes high departure taxes that erase some of this advantage. From Seattle, you can fly nonstop to Iceland, London, Amsterdam, Paris and Frankfurt, and next summer to Manchester. And of course with a stop en route, pretty much anywhere in Europe. So where to go and when should be your first priority, and put together your air travel plans after that.

Do you have any frequent flyer miles besides JetBlue? That's another avenue to investigate, although there too getting available seats when the booking window opens is a crapshoot. In air travel, early birds don't always get worms; sometimes they get cats.

Hi mm - England or northern France should be cooler than Japan in summer, lol.

Can't help much with airfare, I usually use FF miles. I have been thinking of paying to fly Icelandair, at least one-way, for the stop-over in Iceland. WOW also stops there. gardyloo's suggestion to look at flights out of Canada is good. When you're pricing fares make sure you include "extras" you actually want, like a checked bag or sear selection. JetBlue has a partnership with Aer Lingus, don't know whether you can use FF miles for that.

My UK TR for last year may give you some ideas:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-transport.cfm

Don't rule out Cornwall - a return there is high on my agenda, if I get to travel again. Especially the night train to Penzance and ferry to the Scilly isles.

Hi MM,
Check out Iceland Air. We often fly them from Seattle & have found that they are often the cheapest price. All their flights have a short layover in Iceland (with the option of adding a few days there if you are interested.) They also fly into several other countries in Europe.
I've looked at Norwegian, but they make me nervous because they have such a small number of flights. I don't know what happens if something cancels the flight that you are supposed to take.

Someone else mentioned Vancouver. We had friends who flew to Europe 2 times from there & saved quite a bit of money. They drove there & found that parking at the airport was surprisingly cheap.

"England or northern France should be cooler than Japan in summer, lol."

It's like you read my mind or something;) if you haven't been to Iceland, you should definitely do the stopover; I really enjoyed that! I would be going back except it definitely is not budget friendly. I hope you feel better. Thanks for the suggestion, haven't looked into Cornwall yet. I am definitely leaning towards the U.K., but that's probably the maitaitom influence. His photos tend to be persuasive and right now they're persuading me to go for haggis and afternoon tea! Thanks for the TR link, my first priority is figuring out what is accessible by transit, so very useful.

Gardyloo- I usually do shop around the first of the year. Wasn't worried about selling out, I was just wondering when I should buy- summer fares never seem bargains. I hadn't thought of YVR, thanks. And I'll play around with that software!

IN May I flew round-trip San Diego to Paris on Delta for $427; yes, round trip! What a deal. Wish I could find a fare even close to that again...but more in the $1200 to $1400 range currently.

Jennifer- thanks, I've flown with both Iceland and Norwegian. Right now, it seems to be between those two and aer lingus. Anyone with experience with the last?

Catcrazyaf- that's pretty spectacular! well, you might get lucky! I've seen some really low fares for spring. Unfortunately I can't travel until June!

"persuading me to go for haggis and afternoon tea"

Would skip the haggis, basically large sausage including innards, but Cornwall and Devon are THE places for afternoon tea. Or at least scones and clotted cream, which to me is the whole point. Also scrumpy - rough, very alcoholic cider.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/haggis_66072

I am on an offal kick, and I love sausage, therefore, the attraction.

But scones and clotted cream are my true love, so it looks like I'll have to add Devon and Cornwall to my list. Is scrumpy dry or sweet?

Should be dry. In UK pubs you can ask for dry or sweet cider. Drank a lot of it when I was student...

If you are in London the V&A does good scones and clotted cream at a reasonable price in gorgeous tea rooms.

https://www.vam.ac.uk/visit#cafe

Oh, I have a list of afternoon teas I didn't get to last time. It's only a question of stomach space. V&A is another reason I'm leaning towards U.K.

Okay, preliminary research thoughts:

I really think I'm leaning towards the U.K. I was wavering between more time in Paris or London, and I really love London. I also definitely want to visit Edinburgh.

So places I did not get to last time that I wanted to see this time:

Bath- how many nights?

Oxford/Cambridge- either or both? Thoughts? I'm leaning towards Oxford because I'm a Morse fan. But I would like to see King's College Chapel too. I enjoy gothic architecture.

Definitely some or several national trust properties. I really enjoy house museums and gardens. Any particular favorites? I've just started researching this. Uppark House is the first one that caught my attention- the servant quarters sound interesting and I would love to see the dollhouse. Not quite got a grasp on how Sussex fits in geography wise yet.

Cornwall is definitely on my list- how many days would you recommend?

I have a vague idea of seeing a bunch of the smaller villages and rural areas. I don't know how practical that is without a car. But I don't want the whole trip to be city. I gather the countryside is a large part of British identity. And I like the smaller places. Favorite areas for this? Places I should research? I researched the Cotswolds previously and I seem to remember that a car was a necessity.

And something on my bucket list is Hay on Wye- I have a lifelong love affair with books, and this has been on my list since I was a teen. So that puts Wales on the list as well. Which looks stunning, in general, so I'm wondering what else I should include there.

Dorky, I know, feel free to mock: but my favorite series as a kid was the Borrowers, and I'd love to visit at least one model village. Bekonscot? Or other recommendations?

And then I haven't even touched on Scotland, really. Where to focus there?



I only really saw London and Brighton last trip. No interest in going back to Brighton, although likely it's more interesting in July than January. I KNOW I want at least 5 nights in London. I was so exhausted at the end of my Christmas trip that I really don't feel like I did the museums justice.

And initially I had the vague idea to go to Galway for the Art festival and fly back from Shannon. My grandmother was Irish American, very proud of her heritage so Ireland is of interest. But I'm thinking the U.K. will be more than enough. Has anyone been to the art festival? Should I consider spending a few days in Northern Ireland? I was interested in seeing Giants Causeway mostly. Thoughts on Belfast? My relatives have all been to Ireland but Belfast hasn't got good associations for them, so no anecdotal information there.


So. Given 3-4 weeks (I thought 3 but my list is already long)- what would YOU prioritize? What places wowed you, where are you dying to return to?


Practical housekeeping:

Train passes- anyone bought these? I know from last time that last minute train tickets were really pricy, so I'm assuming a rail pass would pay off, but I'm not sure if consecutive or travel days would be the way to go. I suspect the latter- I don't travel fast enough for the former. Do they include buses and ferries too? Or just the rail system?

I had originally considered starting in London. However. I know London lodging is pricy, and when I'm jet lagged, I need a private room for the first one or two nights. Any idea on where/how to do that economically? I'll probably be doing hostels the rest of the trip, but that isn't a good idea for the first few nights.

Thanks! Appreciate any help you can give me!

With your American dollar being stronger it's often worth it to take the trian to Vancouver bc and fly from there, Airtransat often has some amazing deals !

Will it be cheaper to buy in CAD? I was looking at Vancouver flights yesterday in USD and it seemed more expensive than SEA. So I wasn't sure if conversion factored in (it came up automatically as usd)

Never mind, figured it- two different websites. Thanks for the tip. I might get lucky!! Hopefully late July will go down, early July is a really good price!

Hi, marvelousmouse.

RE: TRACKING AIR FARE

You likely use some sort of website to track fares, but I like google's flight search: ita software. You can search your preferred airline w/nearby airlines, and search a calendar for lowest airfares. Also, airfare watchdog will send you emails when lower airfares go into effect. I've flown from Chicago O'Hare to London Heathrow for $586 RT the past two years because I've been alerted by email. (Those were on AA and BA.) Good luck!

https://matrix.itasoftware.com
http://airfarewatchdog.com

Hi, again. I see you're leaning toward England and visiting the countryside and National Trust properties. (We would be awesome travel buddies.)

RE: National Trust
My favorite National Trust properties have been Calke Abbey in Derbyshire, Carlyle's House in London.

RE: Countryside
As for the countryside, I don't know if you're interested in hiking (or as they say over there, 'walking'), I have had my favorite walks in the Cotswolds. Gorgeous countryside that feels so quintessentially English. I've done the Lake District, the Peak District and Yorkshire, and I like the walks in the Cotswolds best. I haven't rented a car in that area, as I really don't like that stress (I did rent for the north, once), and did perfectly fine with public transportation (buses and trains). Many disagree with me, and there are likely more out of the way villages you'll not get to easily, but when I based in Cheltenham, I stayed at the George Hotel, and had easy access to a big bus stand that took me to several areas: Chipping Campden, Broadway, Winchester, Snowshill and several others. I used traveline to help sort out the routes. If you don't want to plan walking routes, I think there are several relaxed routes around Winchester, and the walk from Broadway up to the Broadway Tower is easy.
http://www.traveline.info
Also, I had a wonderful day out with "The Secret Cottage" tour out of Moreton-in-Marsh, which has an easy rail connection to London.
https://www.cotswoldtourismtours.co.uk

RE: London/Economical Hotels
I like to end my vacations in London, as I find the city easier to navigate than the countryside, so it feels like I'm really having fun and relaxation at the end. If you're traveling alone, I pre-pay to stay at The Strand Palace and the Nadler Victoria. The Nadler properties are nice, as they have a little kitchenette in their rooms. I've stayed several times at the Nadler by the Earl's Court station, which is a bit west, but I found it rather nice for the areas I was visiting, in Kensington and Chelsea, and the tube stop is really convenient.

Have fun planning!

So helpful! Thank you so much- I do enjoy hiking, that's most of the reason I wanted to go in July. And the Secret Cottage has been on my list, so I'm glad to hear from someone who had done it. And thanks so much for the traveline site, bookmarking!

Like you said- navigating cities is much easier. How do you usually plan your walks? Do you do loops or do you walk from transit to transit? Is the latter possible? I use buses frequently in town but not really in rural areas because of course that's not something common here.

Hi, marvelousmouse.

RE: Walking the north Cotswold villages with public transportation.

I rather liked taking the buses around the Cotswolds. It’s not the fastest way to get around, but as I was there to hike, it was really nice to have a local driver navigate those roads and it gave me time to study my maps and relax after. You do need to get the bus schedules sorted on traveline, but that was fairly easy. And people are lovely and eager to help navigate the journey. Though, as they are English and respectful about getting up in your business, they don’t step up to help like Americans. You may need to approach them with questions/clarifications.

The walks I wanted to do were in the north, so I ended up basing in Cheltenham the first time. (Though other Fodorites may be able to chime in with other bases with good transportation options. I imagine Moreton-in-Marsh would also be quite good. I also remember Winchcombe as being a village with numerous circular walks originating there.)

I flew into Heathrow, took a bus from Heathrow to Reading Rail station. Took a train from Reading to Cheltenham Spa rail station, walked to the George Hotel (about a mile or so away, if I recall correctly, but an easy, residential walk—even rolling my suitcase). BTW: The George Hotel was wonderful, with the best English b’fast. It sets you up for a day of hiking.)

In Cheltenham, 1½ blocks away is a large “bus stand,” where you can ride to several villages.

FANTASTIC WALK #1: Chipping Campden to Broadway Tower to Broadway
I rode from Cheltenham to Moreton in Marsh, transferred to a bus for Chipping Campden. Walked Chipping Campden to Broadway, and bussed back to Cheltenham from Broadway. (Also, on another trip, I walked from Moreton-in-Marsh to Sezincote, which is fantastic and an easy walk.)

WALK: Stanton to Snowshill (back to Stanton)
The next day, I took a bus to Stanton, and walked to Snowshill and back to Stanton, to catch the bus back. Snowshill is the prettiest Cotswold village, and Snowshill Manor and Garden is a great National Trust property.

HARDER WALK: Painswick to Kings Stanley
The next, I bussed to Stroud, then Merrywalks Rd to Painswick to walk to Kings Stanley. (This walk scared me a bit, as it goes through a wood that is easy to get lost in. Wasn’t the best walk, I’d pass--unless you can go with an experienced guide.)

EASY WALK: Winchcombe to Sudely Castle
The next, I bussed to Winchcombe (I think I called it Winchester this a.m.—my error.), walked to Sudely Castle (awesome awesome awesome) and then back to Cheltenham. Winchcombe has a wonderful church and yew trees in the graveyard.

RE: Preparing for Walking the Cotswolds
I ordered Ordnance Survey maps ahead of time, photocopied the sections I needed for each day, laminated them, and studied them ahead of time. You’ll need a map compass, hiking boots, sun hat and back pack. I used trekking poles, which helped me when the going up/down hills and when ground was muddy, but these aren’t necessary.

There are garmins and other digital mapping tools, but I never used those. Maybe someone else could help with that. I was always nervous about reception in those areas, so wanted to be prepared with a map and compass.

Googling “Best Cotswold Way” walks or something to that effect, will bring you lots of ideas as to which villages/walks you want to attempt. I think much of the Cotswold Way is very well marked, but don’t be fooled that you’ll not need map and map reading/compass skills. I’m not the best outdoorsman, but I managed to do it, so don’t be too afraid—just be mindful to put some planning and preparation into the walks.

RE: The Secret Cottage Tour
Enjoyed this very much. You can read about it here on my blog, and see a few pics. It was great to meet fellow travelers, and you are fed really well. I booked this spur-of-the moment on a rainy day when I didn’t want to walk and it was perfect. I think I have some entries that were posted about Sezincote, too.
http://www.susannelord.com/blog/2015...secret-cottage

Have a great time planning!

Thanks. Did you put your trekking poles in checked baggage? I would like to take mine but I'm thinking they aren't allowed in carryon.

My map reading skills are bit terrible but I think could figure it out. I would be less worried about hiking there than at a NP. Possibly less chance of getting lost and injured I would think.


Was amused to discover that I've read your blog before- I remember the damsel! Thank you very much for the link.

Couple of points to add to the info on hiking:

I have taken collapsible hiking sticks in my checked bags. Would not try it in carry on as there are sharp points under the rubber.

There is a direct National Express coach from Heathrow to Cheltenham.

This is THE site for hiking in Britain:
http://www.ramblers.org.uk

Public footpaths in Britain are usually pretty well signed. Note that you may find yourself using a right-of-way across private property.

I find google maps on my phone very useful for buses.

National Trust:

Consider joining Royal Oak, the US affiliate.
http://www.royal-oak.org

London lodging

During university term time I usually stay at the Ridgemount on Gower Street. During vacations I stay in one of the LSE student halls of residence. Usually Grosvenor House, where I get a kitchenette as well as an en-suite bath. All of them are in good locations, but Grosvener House is convenient for the Piccadilly line in from LHR, and there is Marks and Spencers for food supplies right outside Covent Garden tube station.

http://www.lsevacations.co.uk/Home.aspx

To stay in one of the colleges in Oxford or Cambridge see:

http://www.universityrooms.com

If you choose Cambridge, don't miss Ely, another 15 minutes by train with a wonderful cathedral.

HI, Marvelousmouse.
You know, I've never hiked in a US Nat'l. Park, but some of the longer hikes on the Cotswold Way CAN turn you around and get you lost--though, yes, there's usually a village close enough by. However, there is a potential in getting so lost that you may find yourself losing sunlight, which would be bad. So early morning hiking is important. But you sound like you've done enough hikes to know that.

Also, when I hiked in September and May, I was surprised by how solitary the hikes are--especially on the weekdays. In the Lake District, there seem to be quite a few hikers, but not as many in the Cotswolds. Though, perhaps in the summer, there'll be more folks around. If there are more challenging hikes you want to try, maybe try those on a weekend.

Yes, I checked my trekking poles. I don't think I would have been able to carry them on. The tip is a bit pointy. At times, they're a bit of a pain to tie/untie from your backpack, but at the end of a hike, when you start to get fatigued, they can help quite a bit. I also find them helpful if the ground is muddy to keep from turning an ankle and to keep your balance.

Thursday's tip on staying in a university dorm is an excellent one. I've never done it, but it can make London a bit more affordable.

I'm trying to follow this thread but could use some clarification. (I know, it's still a work in progress, but no harm in asking...)

How long do you have? You started saying two or three weeks, then later that seemed to become three to four. BIG difference.

If it's four and laps into August, then Edinburgh becomes a big question mark, good or bad. Throughout August Edinburgh is filled with people attending or participating in the various festivals - the "big" International Festival, and the (vast, chaotic) Fringe Festival, during which every hotel room is booked and every church basement, auditorium, theater, pub, warehouse or spare room is given over to people putting on theater, music or other productions. (The last two I attended a few years ago were a musical version of Hamlet, with the ultimate duelists fighting with poisoned herrings, and a musical version of <i>Oedipus at Colonus</i> featuring the Blind Boys of Alabama.)

<i>IF</i> you enjoy street theater, improv comedy, cutting edge music (or bagpipes at the Tattoo) then Edinburgh in August is a dream come true. Exhilarating doesn't even come close.

If you <i>DON'T,</i> then it can be hellish.

But just as a thought experiment, what if you spent a few days in Edinburgh during the festival, had a ball seeing some plays or events, then did some countryside exploring in Scotland? Even in Edinburgh itself there are marvelous "hidden" (well, not really) places like the Dean Path and Dean Village <b>maitaitom</b> visited, where it feels like you're a hundred miles from the crowds on Princes Street. Look at the pages on Undiscovered Scotland - http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/ - for Cramond, Duddingston and Swanston, three ancient villages on the periphery of Edinburgh.

Cramond is on the coast with ruins of a Roman wall, a tidal path out to an island in the Firth of Forth, a famous comfy pub (okay food, cheap good beer) and an ancient church. Hopefully by next year a short "chain ferry" across the mouth of the River Almond will be reopened, allowing one to walk along the shoreline from Cramond to South Queensferry, past a ruined castle and a stately home (Dalmeny House) open to visitors. South Queensferry is also ancient and historic; R.L. Stevenson allegedly composed much of <i>Kidnapped</i> while residing at the Hawes Inn, which sits undisturbed and still open for business beneath the incredible arches of the Forth Rail Bridge - http://gardyloo.us/wp-content/upload...30617_15Hs.jpg . Here's the website for the walk - https://dalmeny.co.uk/dalmeny-house/the-shore-walk

Duddingston is close to town; it's on the far side of Holyrood (Queen's) Park from Holyrood Palace and the (hideous) Scots Parliament buildings. This "village within a city" has another ancient church, a wee loch, and reputedly the oldest still-functioning pub in the UK, the Sheep Heid, complete with skittles lanes. http://www.gpsmycity.com/tours/holyr...-tour-125.html

Swanston also has Stevenson connections; he lived in this village for a time. Swanston is south of town, at the foot of the Pentland Hills, superb walking country with expansive views to the south and north. Swanston is home to numerous thatched buildings, rare in Scotland. http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.u...ton/index.html

So if you are interested in Edinburgh but also want some outdoors and rural experiences accessible without a car, it's hard to do better in Britain for a marvelous city in such close proximity to very interesting and beautiful countryside. And of course, either with a car or using trains or buses (or small-group tours like those offered by Rabbie's and their ilk) Scotland is an absolute banquet of possibilities.

To clarify, re: time:

I have 4-6 weeks in which I could take a vacation, late June-early August. The 3 week thing was more that a month wore me out in Japan this year, but that may have been more the heat or humidity. I'm not sure. I'm tired right now, gardyloo. I may very well be looking at 4-5 weeks when I go to book the flight in a few months, and I suspect that it will be 3-ish weeks outside of London and one week for London. Right now it is just "what if"- I'm trying to get a feel if I would be better off looking for open jaw or round trip.

I think I have enough sightseeing on my list for Edinburgh that I would not want to be there during the festival, but yes, it does exhilarating to me, which is why I'm interested in the Galway festival.

Thanks so much for the links! I would love to see more of Scotland.

chgogal- I have enough experience hiking that I know my limits, basically. I think I may check my luggage for those poles. When my "bad" foot is tired, the ankle is weaker and that is what causes most of my injuries. So I'm leery of hiking off season on trails that are fairly solitary.

And, yes, Thursday, thanks for he dorm link, that's great and exactly the price range I was looking for.