Thanks for posting this question, Will, as it applies to us as well (to some extent).

I haven't had a chance to look at the website yet but thanks for posting it, Alec.

Flanner, you say:
"On arrival in the UK, Canadians (and Americans) are routinely given 6 months' permission to stay, provided they satisfy the immigration official they're here on business or as a visitor. If they leave the country, they need new permission each time they re-enter."

Does that mean that during our 3.5 month stay in London, we need permission to re-enter every time we travel in Europe for a few days (something we hope to do frequently).

We'll be in England because my SO is on sabbatical. Neither of us will be working at a regular job or being paid by a UK firm (we'll both have our regular salaries from our jobs in Canada). My SO is hoping to start writing a paper here and finish it up there because there are people in the UK and Europe he'd like to consult with while we're over there. Mostly, though, we'll be visitors.

How does that fit into the regs?

Hi goddesstogo, the Visit visa is single entry so if you leave the country, even for an hour or two, you'll need a new visa when you try to re-enter. 6 months is the maximum any one visit visa is valid for. I don't see you having any issues as long as you look like tourists travelling around Europe, what does cause a problem is people are using the 6 months visit visa to "live" in the UK which is not allowed. P.S. The previous caveat about only trusting experts and me not being one applies.

@stokebaily, I can see your point about it being no skin of anyone's nose, and I agree to some extent, but that kind of argument probably won't work with immigration officers anywhere in the world :-).

As the law stands people on Visit visas can't work at all, even if they are paid abroad, they can't even do unpaid volunteer work. People on Business Visit visas can but within the very limited scope Sheila posted above

Thanks, Pete,

"As the law stands people on Visit visas can't work at all, even if they are paid abroad, they can't even do unpaid volunteer work."
Working on writing a paper? How does that fit in?

Also, when we travel back and forth from London to Europe, how do we get the return visas?

Hi, Pete_R,

No, I'd never argue with immigrations officers. Just wondering whether the laws made any sense. You all have my permission to come work from your laptops in the US if you like.

TBH, I'm not sure how writing a paper would fit in. I'd guess, and it's only a guess, that it would be depend if you were writing it as part of your job.

As far as getting visas goes, that's the same very time. In this case the stamp in your passport is really a visa. So when you arrive at UK passport control you hand over your passport, they ask a few questions and then they "issue a visa", i.e. stamp your passport and in you go. So when you leave you'll do the same thing when you try to re-enter. I would suspect that if you repeatedly try to enter the UK in a short period you'll probably be asked more and more questions, but it shouldn't be a problem as long as you can answer.

Oh, that's no problem then (the visa thing). It sounds like it's essentially the same as entering or exiting any country when you travel.

My SO isn't obligated to write a paper while he's on sabbatical but he would be writing it as an academic. I guess it's sort of a grey area. I suppose he doesn't even have to mention it.

Well, that was an excellent website, Alec. It answered all my questions right here:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/vis...cademicvisitor

Hi Pete: You wrote:
<< I would suspect that if you repeatedly try to enter the UK in a short period you'll probably be asked more and more questions, but it shouldn't be a problem as long as you can answer.>>

Actually, it has become more and more of a hassle for my daughter. The questions have become more specific, the interview times more lengthy, and the level of scrutiny has increased. She's happy to answer all questions and has nothing to hide nor is her presence there at all questionable, but she's noticed a bit of a change with every subsequent arrival.

She and I agree that although inconvenient, this process is really a very good 'thing'.

But she's going back to work, not coming in on business. She has a U.K. bank account, address, etc. Her company put these in place for her before she left. H.R. is a wonderful thing.

Aye, I guess a lot of it comes down to what we all mean by "repeatedly" and "short period of time".

As far as I understand they're trying to make sure people are using the Visit visas to actually visit and not to "live" in the UK. People focus on the "not working" thing but that's only the start. I know it's hard to precisely define when someone stops being a long term visitor and starts being someone who temporarily lives in the UK which is part of why it's hard to give a hard-and-fast answer.

If someone turns up and then leaves 2 weeks later with a suitcase full of "Mind the Gap" tat it's very straight forward that they're a visitor. The more time one spends in country, even if they leave for short trips, it starts to look less like someone touring around Europe and more like someone living in the UK taking a lot of short breaks. Every time they walk up to the passport control counter it's their job to convince the POE that they're visiting not living.

Just noticed the next post as I was typing. I was talking about Visit visas it sounds like Bowsprit's daughter is using some kind of work permit/HSMP visa which work under different rules. Actually I'm surprised by the hassle as these visas <i>do</i> allow people to live in the UK.

My former company did this all the time and we ALWAYS got a visa even if we were only going to be there a couple of weeks. There is some type of "temporary" deal you can get that's easier then a long term visa. We used these when working on projects with "multi-national" firms. We weren't really worried about the traveler getting in trouble, more the 'Home office' that let us in!

> He basically plans to do his normal work for the Canadian > office but remotely, but sat at a desk in London. It's my > understanding that would fall outside what is allowed on a > Business Visit visa.

Other than for the fact, I am female, I would likely be planning to do ordinary work (if this is legal). However, my ordinary work is mostly for London-based institutions, mostly at the behest of London-based managers. If in London, I could actually talk to them in person, rather than all the other means I currently use.

I have company-provided health insurance that covers me for travel, plus just for safety's sake, I also have an individual travel insurance policy, so there should be little risk, whether I come on business or not, of me using the NHS without paying.

Sorry about that, I assumed WillTravel was a play on your name, "I'm William and I Will Travel," I thought it was quite clever!

My understanding is that it's the "ordinary work" that would cause a problem, as that's not allowed on a Business Visit visa. It let's you visit to attend meetings and such but you need a work visa to do much else.

goddess, you do need permission to re-enter every time.However, unlike what was said above, you don't need a visa.

There can be issues about permission if they think you are "at it", so they suggest you keep with you:-

If you are employed, a letter from your employer granting leave of absence from your job for a specified period - the letter should also say how long you have been employed by that employer, in what job(s), and when you are expected back at work;

If you are self-employed, evidence of your business activities and financial standing;
evidence of any property you own in your home country;

Evidence of any family or social ties and responsibilities to return to;

Evidence of any firm travel plans you have made;

Bank statements going back over a period of several months; and
evidence of savings available to you.

That is simply to prove, as indicated above, that you are not trying to settle surreptitiously. Don't mock. Some of my worst jobs have been Americans thinking they could swan in and out of this country at will (mostly, they can). IF you keep it all within 6 months, it's unlikely to be problem, but it could all go pear shaped.

Stoke, whilst I wholly agree with you, this is positive law, not natural law. Just being sensible won't help.

Academic visitors are the same as business visitors- it's one of the sub-categories.

"A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as an Academic Visitor who does not have entry clearance may, if otherwise eligible, be admitted for a period not exceeding 6 months, subject to a condition prohibiting employment, provided the Immigration Officer is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 46G are met."

Just so you know, 46G says

The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a business visitor are that he:

(i) is genuinely seeking entry as a Business Visitor for a limited period as stated by him:
(a) not exceeding 6 months; or
(b) not exceeding 12 months if seeking entry as an Academic Visitor
(ii) meets the requirements of paragraphs 41(ii)-(viii) and (x)-(xii)
(iii) intends to do one or more of the following during his visit:

(a) to carry out a 'Permissible Activity' as defined in paragraph 6;" ....

"(d) to act as an Academic Visitor but only if he has been working as an academic in an institution of higher education overseas, or in the field of their academic expertise immediately prior to seeking entry;"

I won't bore you by quoting the rest. It's all on the BA web page.

And I know I'm being a pedantic lawyer, but that stamp is NOT a visa. And, frankly, even a visa is not a guarantee if the Passport Control staff think you're lying.

Good grief. All we want to do is go live in London for just under 4 months and do a bit of travelling while we're there. We'll have return air tickets. We promise not to earn even a pound of English money. We have a house back here in Toronto, as well as jobs we have to return to.

We know academics who do this on their sabbaticals all the time, some even longer than the 4 months we're looking at. Do you mean they carry their house deeds and bank statements with them every time they go out of the country?

Yikes.

<<< And I know I'm being a pedantic lawyer, but that stamp is NOT a visa. And, frankly, even a visa is not a guarantee if the Passport Control staff think you're lying.>>>

I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I hoped to convey when I wrote earlier:
~~~ There's simply no chance of 'beating the system'. Getting through immigration to live and work in London for more than a few months requires more than clever semantics. If not sent by your company to work with all the requisites in place, it'll be an unfortunate mess for you.~~~

Goddess, the function is to show that you have ties and intend to return. That's all. They kind of have to treat Canadian academics the same as those from less salubrious parts of the world.

Unfortunately, people beat the system all the time. That's why they keep tightening it.

If your life is on the line, it might be worth blagging it. If you're a comfortable middle class type (as I am) it's just not worth the risk

"If your life is on the line, it might be worth blagging it. If you're a comfortable middle class type (as I am) it's just not worth the risk"

Hi Sheila,
I appreciate your advice. I don't understand your last paragraph. I don't know what blagging it means or what you mean by just not worth the risk.

sheila: Well, you might slide past the immigration guys once or twice, but eventually they'll catch up with you. It happens all the time.