Uber vs. TfL
 

Uber is challenging TfL's decision not to renew their licence, as not a "fit and proper private hire operator"

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...for-london-tfl

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...london-limited

I think they 30 days to appeal and can keep running while they are in appeal. Time to shape up or ship out :-)

From the Guardian:

"Uber has 21 days to appeal and can continue to operate until that process expires."

So they could still be around for some time. I rarely take a taxi in London but when I do it's a black cab.

Black cabs in London provide such excellent service. IME, the places where Uber is very successful are places where the taxi service is lousy.

True, black cabs are amazing but sometimes after a certain hour they refuse to go to the outer suburbs. Uber can be helpful at those time. Of course I am always home in bed by these times so don't have any issue with the black cabs :)

Still Addison Lee are considered acceptable as "fit and proper"
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ycott-chairman
so Uber must be really bad.

"the places where Uber is very successful are places where the taxi service is lousy."

Does it "do well" in NEW YORK?

I'm sorry but my impression is that it does <B>best</B> where people where folks also want to SAVE MONEY or am I wrong about that?

Yes, you are wrong about that, as you have been told many, many times.

Sorry, Dukey is not wrong. When I use Uber it is consistently cheaper than taking a taxi; in Paris, London, San Francisco, Sydney, and Singapore.

In London I use black cabs and Uber. There are times when each is preferrable, in my opinion.

I think the reason the TfL was successful in this case is because of a really strong Black Cab union. It's the consumer and the 40,000 Uber drivers who are going to pay the price in this case.

Dukey believes that the only reason to use Uber is to save money, no matter how many times it has been discussed that reasons for using Uber vary.

For example, in busy midtown NYC, Uber is more annoying than simple hailing a cab. On a deserted street in Chelsea at 2am, Uber is easier. Cost is not always the deciding factor.

But Dukey doesn't use Uber, and for some reason likes to insinuate that only cheapskates do.

Newbe, WHY didn't you answer my question about New York? Perhaps it is because we disagree with that constitutes "lousy" cab service.

I suspect there are a LOT of reasons people use Uber and I suspect even in NYC which has scads of cabs it might make sense to get Uber since you can get them to come directly to you perhaps a bit more easily than others.

We have been told repeatedly how people "saved money" using Uber but since in spite of the assertion that I have been told something "many many times" I asked the question again and <B>look what happened</B>!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But Dukey doesn't use Uber, and for some reason likes to insinuate that only cheapskates do.

How do you KNOW what I use. Newbe? You DON'T. And because people sue something because it is cheaper does not make them a "cheapskate." However, pretending people never use something because it IS cheaper is self-explanatory.

Because you've said you don't! Why not just say what you mean?? I don't understand you at all.

Tfl is not "successful" it has to obey the law. It has done what it has done and either the law changes, the appeal suggests a different interpretation of the law or Uber changes its business practices over 5 specific issues, one of which is to do proper back ground checks on drivers and report any criminal activity....

Hardly unreasonable changes but will require Uber to stump up some money. Uber is now trying to use its users to pressurise for standards to be dropped. What a silly little team of w@@@@@s.

I won't use uber in London on principle. Taxi drivers face a long and difficult process to qualify. Any schmuck with a sat nav can drive for uber. Not a level playing field IMO.

This is not unique to London, but it is an interesting debate. My hometown Austin, TX was in the middle of the fight for a while, with Uber and Lyft vacating the city for some time over regulations.

Apparently there are 40,000 shmucks with sat navs who are earning their living driving for Uber in London. So there appears to be a demand both on the labor side and the consumer side. I don't know how many "minii-cab" drivers are also in the mix.

Part of the process of qualifying for a black cab driver license, if I understand it correctly, is learning the entire street map of London. I question whether this is necessary in an age of GPS.

Nikki, anecdotally it looks as though a lot of minicab drivers signed up with Uber because they were the ones most immediately affected by Uber in the first place.

It seems to be turning on how thoroughly Uber have or haven't been carrying out the required safety procedures and criminal record checks, i.e., is this another case of technical innovators so in love with the technology and their image as "disrupters" that they're not too bothered with the boring details of managing human fallibility?

I don't have any experience with Uber in London, but I can tell you that we have had good experiences with both Uber and Lyft on the U.S. Mainland and in Europe.

The pickups have been timely and the rides fairly priced.

In France, we were told that Uber operated only in 6 cities, but in the south of France the Uber drivers were willing to drive long distances, and we found very good coverage. Unlike regular taxi drivers in many cities (perhaps because their licenses or permits only allow them to operate in a limited area), Uber drivers were more than willing to take us to other towns and cities without concern about whether they could get a ride back. One driver told us that when the "season" was over in the South, he moved up to Paris to drive.

I don't know if I agree on that, Nikki. The cab drivers that really screw up ime are the idiots who rely too much on sat nav. They don't understand or know about traffic patterns or potential road work. If the London cab drivers are required to actually pass an in depth exam, that's a point in their favor.

I can believe there is demand for it. And certainly it can be driven by price, but that's not the whole story. I don't like uber, but I will admit they fill a real gap in cab service most places. Friends and family who use uber or lyft usually cite nice vehicles, availability, and cost as considerations, and usually in that order.

>>If the London cab drivers are required to actually pass an in depth exam, that's a point in their favor.<<

No "if" about it. They need to pass the Knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxica...United_Kingdom

>><blue>The London taxicab driver is required to be able to decide routes immediately in response to a passenger's request or traffic conditions, rather than stopping to look at a map, relying on satellite navigation or asking a controller by radio. Consequently, the "Knowledge of London" is the in-depth study of a number of pre-set London street routes and all places of interest that taxicab drivers in that city must complete to obtain a licence to operate a black cab. It was initiated in 1865, and has changed little since. It is claimed that the training involved ensures that London taxi drivers are experts on London, and have an intimate knowledge of the city and are the safest form of transport.

It is the world's most demanding training course for taxicab drivers,[citation needed] and applicants will usually need to pass at least twelve 'appearances' (periodical one-on-one oral examinations undertaken throughout the qualification process),<B> with the whole process usually averaging 34 months, to pass.</B>[8]</blue>

Wow. Well, that explains the positive experience I had in London. Only one dud driver the whole time.

(I wasn't doubting that they had to pass a test, Janis, but thanks for the background anyway. Few changes since 1865? Fascinating!)

>>Few changes since 1865?<<

Well, they have to pick up on new developments and all the new places people will be asking to go to - not like they're tested on what people needed to know in 1865!

That's if they want the right to pick up casual passengers on the street. Minicab (pre-booked or "private hire") drivers don't need to have done the knowledge but they do need criminal record checks as well as safety checks on their vehicle and the right insurance, or their employing company needs to have done so. That's where Uber is falling foul - it's the fall-out from the argument as to whether they're employing their drivers, and the employment tribunals have already said they are.

I am so used to London 's excellent black cabs that I was astounded when asked by a cab at the Washington airport where the Weston downtown was located! How should I know?? I don't live there...surely the name of the hotel and street it is located on should be enough!

Lol. Yes, jamikins, that sounds more like my experiences with the Seattle cabs. I think you may be talking about DC? But I often think Seattle cab drivers are better advertisement for Uber and lyft than the PR they actually pay for! I'd rather take the bus and that's really saying something.

I don't think metro DC cab drivers are that great but the Westin in DC is on a long street that runs across the entire city. Plenty of chain hotels have multiple sites in a city. There are two Westins in DC, for example, and both are on the same street as it runs for miles across the city (M ST). I think anyone should have the actual address of a hotel. So that question wasn't so stupid to ask the address of a Westin on M St as there are two of them (and neither is called "the Westin Downtown").

Yeah but that's more of a nitpick than anything else as the Westins are either Georgetown or city center so if you said downtown, I can't really see a cabby taking you to Georgetown. City center/downtown is more or less interchangeable usually.

Just listened to Uber's first defence on Radio 4 (BBC). "We don't understand why these 5 issues are a concern" then slowly with very little pressure it all unravels. While sounding very cool, they admit to errors "yes we hold our hands up to this and that etc". What they don't like is that their errors are being displayed in public rather than being swept under the carpet.

They are d@@ks