U.S. citizens: If you live/have lived in Europe, how did you make it happen?
 

Funny question for the 4th of July, eh? :)

But, my husband and I just finished watching Italy and Germany in the World Cup and started talking about how much we think we'd like living in Italy.

Question is: How? I have a close friend living in Shanghai and my sister has dual citizenship in Australia, but they both managed their living arrangements in very different ways - neither of which would be possible for me.

I'm interested in hearing how others have arranged to live abroad, primarily in Europe, for an extended time. Also, any suggestions for doing so? If it helps, I will have my degree in school counseling next year, and my husband is an accountant. We currently have no children.

Thanks!

What type of accountant? If he is a CPA with one of the big firms - you have your answer right there

He's in auditing . . . still working on his CPA. Is being a CPA the ticket or working for one of the big four?

If he has his CPA, works for a big four firm it will probably be quite easy for him to transfer to another office (assuming that he is good). language will be an issue - if he can only speak English he may be limited to the UK. The Big 4 firms frequently transfer people - it is alos very popular to go down to Australia

Have you considered working as a counselor at a Department of Defense school overseas? I lived in Sicily for 3 years and my children attended DOD schools. My husband was in the military so that is the reason we were there.

One other thought - before you take the plunge on the back of the work of either you or your husband make sure that you fully understand and accept the employment opportunities of the other - i.e. if he gets a job can you work and if so at what

JaneB, I was at a conference recently and heard of possibilities for counseling overseas. I would like to research that option more, for sure. I wonder how the DOD does their hiring?

wombat7, I'll mention the big four idea to my husband. I knew they frequently hired for Bermuda, but was unaware the same applied to Europe.

Paucie Usually DOD does most of their hiring in the states. I have been hired two different times here in San Diego. I taught in Germany, came home, then later was offered another teaching job in Spain. However, one of my friends came to visit me and was hired through DOD personal in Germany. Her benefits weren't as good though. But in the long run her "bennies" turned out great as she married an army officer who only had two years left of duty. He's a lawyer and she got to stay home with the kids. Sooo ..

P - usually helps to do a few years with a big 4 "at home" before applying for a posting overseas.

I had the same idea when we would travel to Europe, and took a job as a civilian contractor/dentist in an army clinic. As someone else posted, your best bet would be with the DOD schools. There is a website, and I once had it in my favorites, as my wife is a school psychologist and was going to try to get hired over there as well.
For your hubby, he should contact AAFES (pronounced AYE-Fees) stands for Army/AirForce Exchange services. There is another group of words that they say it stands for, but I won't repeat that :)
AAFES runs the "PX" system, Commissaries (grocery stores) and lots of other businesses..and I would think they need accountants. I am pretty sure that AAFES is owned by Halliburton. HMMMM
SO.....one area to certainly look into is the companies that service the military bases.

We currently live in Germany. My hubby is a civilian contractor for the U.S. Air Force. There are lots of companies that you can work for as a contractor.

You can also look for government jobs at www.usajobs.com. And, as mentioned before, working for DODDS (Department of Defense Dependant Schools) is also a great option.

We currently live in Scotland. We're here b/c of DH's job. He worked for the company in the states and they need engineers here. I know another American couple who is here b/c her husband is a CPA, worked at a big 4 firm, is an auditor, now they're here.

One thing I will say is that living somewhere is nothing like being there for vacation. The ideal is nice, but you need to consider the reality (small washing machines, limited selection at in the shops, anti-Americanism, etc.).

So true, neeps. It is also very unlikely that both of you will have jobs to your liking. Strangely enough, I am a CPA (along the lines of this thread)--and I spent my days playing bridge and substitute teaching in the DOD school. My husband, however, had a wonderful job flying VIP's all over Europe and the Middle East. Compare and contrast our 3 years in Sicily!!!

I have Italian/American citizenship but because my mother's Italian.
To work and live in Italy as a non-European citizen you need a permit of stay (in Italian, "permesso di soggiorno"). Without it you can neither reside or work in Italy. If I'm not mistaken you might be able to get it through your Italian or foreign employer. I'd call your nearest Italian embassy or consolate and ask them what you need to do to obtain a permesso di soggiorno.
Be warned, Italy is a bureacratic nightmare...but if you saw the World Cup and some of the Italian players, the men are to die for (I got me one!!!) and make all the hair-pulling totally worth it. Although, your hubby might not enjoy hearing this!!;)

JaneB - I'm also a CPA. I'm still looking for that ever eluisve job though. Until I find it I guess it's more time on fodors, lamenting the lack of storage in my tiny fridge, and dreaming of Mexican food. The life of an ex-pat wife :-)

The www.usajobs.gov is a good place to start. Also try www.cpol.army.mil and look under Employment. We are here in Germany as DOD civilians and love the benefits (especially the reduced price gas rations :)) Also try the Navy website for jobs, https://chart.donhr.navy.mil as the Navy has a bigger presence in Italy than the Army or Air Force. Auditors usually don't have a problem finding work over here. For you, try the DODDS/DODEA website at http://www.eu.dodea.edu/pers/vacancies.htm

This is our second time here since 2000 and we love it.

Don't mean to hijack, but this is an appealing concept.... At least going abroad for a couple of years would be appealing...

Would love to hear from any lawyers out there who have done this and been able to work. Not just big firm people, though.

Sardog!!! Woohoo! I was just thinking of you the other day. Do you still have your old email address? I would love to touch base. :D

BTW...we're moving again...

Paucie...we moved abroad with a large consulting firm. You probably wouldn't get Italy but anyplace over here is an experience well worth having.

Good luck!

Slojan! Woo hoo yourself! I'm at [email protected] Would love to hear from you. We're back in Germany, but in Wiesbaden this time. Loving it!

sardog, check your email.
Cheers,
J

Of my two girlfriends who moved permanently to Europe, both married local men (seriously).

I am moving back to Barcelona this weekend, and I am doing it "the hard way" (ie: not marrying a local for paperwork). A lot of my educational background is in Spain (high school and my master's degree), so getting into the workforce was not particularly difficult for me. However, once in it was very hard for me to get my paperwork and make things happen. It took a lot of patience, but was relatively cheap (compared to others I know) because I did a lot of the legwork myself.

If you go to the website of the consulate of the country to which you want to move, you will find your options there. You can apply for a non-lucrative visa (no working but extended stay), a student visa, or a residence permit. And if you want to stay longer, you will want to keep extending it or apply for citizenship.

The easiest thing for one to do is find a degree program and do it. Student visas often allow for part time employment, and you can freelance however much you want as long as you pay your taxes in the US.

Basically, unless you have a cushy deal with a company (transfer or somthing like that), you need to be ready to rough it or have enough money to be immune to the frustration and disappointments along the way.

Best "moving wishes", laclaire! Can't wait to hear more about Spain from you once you get settled!

laclaire- my friends did not marry a local "for the paperwork". i didn't mean my post to sound that way. in both cases they met someone while traveling and fell in love, then later decided to make it permanent.

Paucie: living overseas IS lots of fun, for those who like adventure! We were expats for 5 yrs in the mid 70's..3 yrs. in Dakar, Senegal (the Paris of Africa) and 2 yrs. in Lisbon, Portugal. Loved every minute..Our kids were ages 8,9,l0 when we went and having children in school was a great way to integrate and make friends. The travel experiences are super. My husband was with a major American oil company, doing exploration work.

17 yrs ago our daughter, after 2 yrs. out of college, applied with DODs (Dept. of Defense Schools), to teach at a military base. They use to have many applications for the few new teachers they accepted,,,,but it might be different now. Of course a lot of the applicants ask for Germany (with it's many bases and close proximity to travel within Europe) Our daughter was assigned to Ankara, Turkey...a surprise at first,,,but she LOVED it, wonderful living, and the experience was unmatched. Yes, applying as a counselor in an American school on a base would be a wonderful way for you to live overseas.
Sometimes a spouse get a job also as a Civil employee .
There are other non military related jobs overseas, but those that use to be advertised so glamourously often had strings attatched or turned out to be "scams".
Good luck in your pursuit.......I hope it works out.......but there is a lot to think about. It's difficult to venture out " on your own",,with all the logistics, insurance, housing, visas etc......and much better to have a large company (or the government) to "take care of these things".

SloJan, where are you moving to?? Will you be staying in Europe? What a shame to be leaving beautiful Slovenia just before it joins the eurozone!

Our own story is pretty well known to most Fodorite regulars: in the late 1990s, my husband was headhunted by a high tech company in Brussels. We lived there for five+ years and about six months in Germany, and then moved in late 2004 to the UK. However, we still have an apartment in Brussels because my husband continues to do a lot of work there and one or both of us is on the Eurostar between London and Brussels every week.
Although I'm American (and my husband has UK Right of Abode but not a British passport), I had little trouble getting job offers from companies in Belgium and Switzerland that were willing to go through the work permit process (I have the right to work in the UK, no need for a permit there). Unfortunately the jobs didn't work out (taxes made the one in Belgium not worth it financially and the workload at the Swiss company was simply ridiculous and different from what I was hired to do). Since then, I've been freelancing for the international editions of magazines I wrote for in the U.S., doing media relations for an Italian pharma company, and other various writing jobs, including writing for radio.

We're living in a suburb about halfway between London and Oxford. If we stay in the UK, we'll probably relocate to the Tunbridge Wells area, which will cut down the time spent traveling between home and Brussels and will also be much easier for us to get to Gatwick airport (for flights to visit my mother in Florida) and for us to drive to the coast to pick up the channel shuttle train to France.

We have no plans to go back to the U.S. anytime soon, except to visit family and friends and for business.

>workload at the Swiss company was simply ridiculous and different from what I was hired to do
Up to now, I faild to find jobs that don't fit this description. What do I have to do to get a nice, well paid job there? ;-)

suze- I did not interpret your post that way and hope I didn't offend you. When I wrote that it is because I know quite a few people who are living fake marriages for the paperwork and will soon dissolve them into divorce. I think it is very sad, but it is what they "had" to do.

My big joke with my friends and family is "si yo me quedo en España, me quedo vistiendo santos" (if I stay in Spain, it is to dress Saints), which basically means that I am not going to marry just for the papers.

Logos, the job I had was well paid, but nobody would consider it "nice." The firm has incredibly high turnover, has filled and re-filled the position I held at least 6 times in three years and of the staff that were there when I joined the company, I've been told that only two are still there (and one of them is the owner).

Thanks for all the great responses. Even though some of your stories make me green with envy, I do enjoy reading them!

SloJan, I agree - I'd settle for just about anywhere we could get jobs.

And, no worries about hijacking the thread. I'm interested in hearing how anyone has made living abroad work for them, not just counselors and accountants (although, those are wonderful to hear from, too!). ;)